The Song Fight Bulletin Board

This is the end of the world as we know it. It gets really interesting about half way through.

The Chet Baker example at about 11:50 is mind blowing.

That looks like some serious technology.

Also shown at the MesseMusic recently, was a new DSP board from my favorite company. Cept this new thing has like the power of like 10 big boards or probly somewhere in the region of 25 UADs* again clik my sig

I think the next few years of tech development are gonna be great




*pure speculation on the relative power, Ive never done a comparitve test, nor own the new one, or anything,..... this is just based on what Ive read on said subjects. And I know its gonna end up with me getting flamed everywhere.

Yeah, I've been lusting after it since it was announced at musikmesse 'bout a month ago. I don't think it'd have been possible for me to do 'real' guitar tracks without melodyne plugin, I'm hoping version 2 will allow me to do more than drop-d powerchords

That's amazing! Peter Neubacker is a very humble genius.

A music teacher friend emailed me their little promo video, and I kept thinking back to the very first computer recording system I saw circa 1994. It had a dedicated computer, 4 gigs of hard drive, and cost $10,000. Roymond is right it truly is mind-blowing, but there's a lot of people out there that think a computer can do this stuff already. I wonder if your average Joe will know how amazing this actually is? Now it truly is possible to un-bake a cake. I guess from now on we'll never hear any mistakes from a musical performance on the radio. Do you think this will change a generations perception of what a musical performance should sound like?

Amazing. Sometimes it's nice to just be a caveman, though. But still, very impressive.

Wow. How the f?!

Man, I love Melodyne. I have often wanted to use it for just this sort of thing. It'll also be good for dissecting a song you want to cover so you can figure out the notes they used...
-bill

Project-D wrote:Do you think this will change a generations perception of what a musical performance should sound like?

I think it's going to have the opposite effect of what a lot of musicians keep saying about studio technology that makes the musicians talents trivialized and useless. I feel that in the very near future, music technology will be so badly whored, that the perfection it creates will sound the same, become played out and boring. By this point, music is cheapened so much by every person with a mic and a $500 program, that people will seek out something new. The new music they find is the real music that is performed by talented musicians. Always has been and always will be. Appreciation and respect will once again be turned over to the true hard working skilled musicians.

BUT, I do feel that this technology does have it's place and is wonderful. But not for the purpose of making the Ashley Simpson's of the world sound like a talented human.

Billy's Little Trip wrote:

Project-D wrote:Do you think this will change a generations perception of what a musical performance should sound like?

I think it's going to have the opposite effect of what a lot of musicians keep saying about studio technology that makes the musicians talents trivialized and useless. I feel that in the very near future, music technology will be so badly whored, that the perfection it creates will sound the same, become played out and boring. By this point, music is cheapened so much by every person with a mic and a $500 program, that people will seek out something new. The new music they find is the real music that is performed by talented musicians. Always has been and always will be. Appreciation and respect will once again be turned over to the true hard working skilled musicians.

BUT, I do feel that this technology does have it's place and is wonderful. But not for the purpose of making the Ashley Simpson's of the world sound like a talented human.

I agree, that the right hands and minds will do tremendous things with it, such as decomposing and recomposing... the next level of sampling.

finally I can figure out what chords I have recorded! (I don't consider myself a musician, just like to record music...) Lots of times I just "jam" and record... sometimes it sounds good so I keep it... however thru the years, and not being a musician, I have no idea how I recorded some of the songs I did... now I will know!

roymond wrote:

Billy's Little Trip wrote:

Project-D wrote:Do you think this will change a generations perception of what a musical performance should sound like?

I think it's going to have the opposite effect of what a lot of musicians keep saying about studio technology that makes the musicians talents trivialized and useless. I feel that in the very near future, music technology will be so badly whored, that the perfection it creates will sound the same, become played out and boring. By this point, music is cheapened so much by every person with a mic and a $500 program, that people will seek out something new. The new music they find is the real music that is performed by talented musicians. Always has been and always will be. Appreciation and respect will once again be turned over to the true hard working skilled musicians.

BUT, I do feel that this technology does have it's place and is wonderful. But not for the purpose of making the Ashley Simpson's of the world sound like a talented human.

I agree, that the right hands and minds will do tremendous things with it, such as decomposing and recomposing... the next level of sampling.

Exactly! The way he was able to separate Chet Bakers trumpet from the very old tracks, was mind blowing. With this program, they can go back to very old recordings that are slowly degrading away, clean them up and preserve them forever.

Billy's Little Trip wrote:I feel that in the very near future, music technology will be so badly whored, that the perfection it creates will sound the same, become played out and boring. By this point, music is cheapened so much by every person with a mic and a $500 program, that people will seek out something new. The new music they find is the real music that is performed by talented musicians. Always has been and always will be. Appreciation and respect will once again be turned over to the true hard working skilled musicians.

I remember people saying that in the 80s as midi sequencing became common.

Music will still be music. You've still gotta write a good song with catchy hooks and compelling lyrics. You've still gotta *know* what's musical. It might be that you need fewer muscle skills and more computer skills to achieve the sound that's in your head.

It's like in Bill & Ted, when Beethoven discovers the music store at the mall and shortly has all the synthesizers and sequencers going absolutely crazy with music.

I once went to a mass interview to become a salesman of a "keyboard" aimed at regular people. It's big distinctions were that it had rhythmic accompaniment built-in, and it came with a subwoofer. It's amazing what a subwoofer will do for a cheap set of speakers. The whole spiel we were be told we would give (I walked out halfway through, because it was really just a pushy sales job and I can't do that), was that "you can play it with two fingers." But you really couldn't, not and do anything other than Mary Had a Little Lamb with a bouncing bass.

So, this will let me play a chord on my guitar, and then spread out the notes and mess with them to my heart's content, and I can't *wait* for that. I imagine lots of really thick vocal harmonies without having to do 25 takes. But I've still gotta be a musician to pull off something worthwhile with this tool.

obscurity wrote:

Billy's Little Trip wrote:I feel that in the very near future, music technology will be so badly whored, that the perfection it creates will sound the same, become played out and boring. By this point, music is cheapened so much by every person with a mic and a $500 program, that people will seek out something new. The new music they find is the real music that is performed by talented musicians. Always has been and always will be. Appreciation and respect will once again be turned over to the true hard working skilled musicians.

I remember people saying that in the 80s as midi sequencing became common.

And it did happen. New wave became so boring by the end, that people latched onto grundge like a baby on a teeeet and it was wonderful. Music seems to keep repeating itself, but each time it comes back around, it seems to be as exciting as the day it was born. But the best part is that every time music becomes a tidal wave of shit flooding the world, new generations of geniuses like Neubacker are in the background creating new ways to make music and new generations of musicians are finding new ways to use it. Then, when it is squeezed hard enough, something amazing, like the next Trent Reznor, will be pushed to the surface from the great musical abyss with a brilliant luster that will stop all in their tracks to admire in awe. Then the whole process starts over until the torrent of shit once again consumes the world. *steps off soapbox*

Billy's Little Trip wrote:

obscurity wrote:
I remember people saying that in the 80s as midi sequencing became common.

And it did happen.

I'm not so sure. I always thought grunge was a reaction to 80s hair rock, not new wave (whatever that actually is, anyway). All I know for sure is that when I hear music on the radio/tv/any other circumstance where I haven't chosen the music myself (to reduce selection bias), the majority of what I hear sounds sequenced to me. I don't think the sequencer has gone away, and I don't think it's ever going away (mine certainly isn't!) and I don't think that most people give a flying fuck if what they hear was actually performed by a skilled musician or a well-programmed machine. I dunno, perhaps it's different where you are.

Billy's Little Trip wrote:

obscurity wrote:

Billy's Little Trip wrote:I feel that in the very near future, music technology will be so badly whored, that the perfection it creates will sound the same, become played out and boring. By this point, music is cheapened so much by every person with a mic and a $500 program, that people will seek out something new. The new music they find is the real music that is performed by talented musicians. Always has been and always will be. Appreciation and respect will once again be turned over to the true hard working skilled musicians.

I remember people saying that in the 80s as midi sequencing became common.

And it did happen. New wave became so boring by the end, that people latched onto grundge like a baby on a teeeet and it was wonderful. Music seems to keep repeating itself, but each time it comes back around, it seems to be as exciting as the day it was born. But the best part is that every time music becomes a tidal wave of shit flooding the world, new generations of geniuses like Neubacker are in the background creating new ways to make music and new generations of musicians are finding new ways to use it. Then, when it is squeezed hard enough, something amazing, like the next Trent Reznor, will be pushed to the surface from the great musical abyss with a brilliant luster that will stop all in their tracks to admire in awe. Then the whole process starts over until the torrent of shit once again consumes the world. *steps off soapbox*

Well, I'm pretty sure that Trent uses a shitload of "midi sequencing", and that "Head Like a Hole" is New Wave with distortion effects applied (it's in a major key, try playing it).

Good music translates well. Marilyn Manson's first big hit was a cover of "Sweet Dreams" by Eurythmics. Frente! had a big hit covering "Alien Love Triangle" by New Order.

Judging a carpenter's skills by his tools is a bad mistake. Jason Bourne can kill a man with a rolled-up magazine. Good music is good music, and it takes a good musician to make it. Even if he tickles a plastic qwerty instead of the ivories.

Not sure if we're arguing any more, but I kind of feel like we are. Heh.

I think Obs has it right - 99.9% of music listeners don't care how the sausage was made.

I also agree with JB - it takes good musical sensibilities (i.e. talent) to make good music, regardless of the tools being used.

Still, a musician who's spent years training his mind and refining his fine motor skills (with much frustration along the way) can't help feeling slightly annoyed when some n00b can all of a sudden just push a button and achieve sonic perfection.

melvin wrote:Still, a musician who's spent years training his mind and refining his fine motor skills (with much frustration along the way) can't help feeling slightly annoyed when some n00b can all of a sudden just push a button and achieve sonic perfection.

sounds like my wife's uncle (a guitar player/song writer) when I let him listen to my new music, he always says "you did it with the computer right?" he thinks that because I use a computer all I do is push a "magic" button, and bam! instant-song! kinda irritates me... just because I don't go into a studio, with a guitar... ah well.

Yeah, I can't help but feel annoyed when some guitar player thinks that because my skill is not motor-based I must be some n00b who hasn't put years worth of effort into learning what I do. (Not saying that you think that, melvin, although you do give the impression that you might ).

melvin wrote:I also agree with JB - it takes good musical sensibilities (i.e. talent) to make good music, regardless of the tools being used.

Still, a musician who's spent years training his mind and refining his fine motor skills (with much frustration along the way) can't help feeling slightly annoyed when some n00b can all of a sudden just push a button and achieve sonic perfection.

I think you've got it spot on.

jb wrote:But I've still gotta be a musician to pull off something worthwhile with this tool.

Yes, it is a remarkable tool, or instrument, and you have to know how to use it. It doesn't have auto-compose, although that's probably not far off. To be a snob about writing with a guitar, or a computer or a piece of fruit or whatever, is just that: being a snob. You still gotta write the music, it's just now about how it gets processed, I suppose. I can see uses for it, although it's something I'll probably never use. And not because I'm a snob, or 'the old fashioned way' is better or anything. (more like I'm a big dope) I would guess it's very expensive as well, no?