The Song Fight Bulletin Board

I just did some recording using my MacBook for the first time, and it seemed like it had a higher CPU ceiling than my PowerMac G5. So I'm thinking of upgrading my desktop this year. An iMac seems like a good choice, but then again, maybe a quad core Mac Pro would give me some room to grow and do more in recordings. Or maybe it would be overkill and a waste of money. Plus it could be way louder than an iMac in terms of fan noise. Any thoughts anybody? Is anybody out there using a Core 2 Duo iMac, particularly a recent one, to do recording?

I've got a 2.16 Core 2 Duo laptop, and it's plenty fine for running Logic Express. Surprisingly enough, GarageBand has more problems hitting the ceiling, I've never had it happen with Logic. The fan is quieter than most laptops but still loud enough that you don't want it in the room. If you're in a cool room, though, it only comes on when you're doing processor intensive stuff. (lots of tracks, effects etc.) If I support the machine on either end so it's off the table, it doesn't come on as much and hasn't been an issue. I was using a USB (US-224) interface, so I don't know if using the Fire One will take any load off, or add any.

I have a 2.33 Core 2 Duo iMac and it is quiet as a mouse. I haven't used Logic enough yet to run into many (any?) problems, but I have been pleased with how it's working out so far. I have 2GB of RAM and am thinking of getting more. Which just seems freaking impossible, doesn't it?

EDIT: I also have a 20" screen or something ridiculous like that. The first time I looked at this thing, I was shocked. Now it just seems like normal. But anyway, it's great for mixing and seeing lots of DAW stuff. (That's the first time I ever said "DAW.")

I've got a 4 year old iMac - which, as FBF said is almost completely silent. We also recently bought a new iBook - but I've never even tried recording on it because the old iMac is still more than sufficient for my needs.

frankie big face wrote:(That's the first time I ever said "DAW.")

I'm curious about how you're finding the software world after being a hardware holdout for so long. How's it going?

Lunkhead wrote:I just did some recording using my MacBook for the first time, and it seemed like it had a higher CPU ceiling than my PowerMac G5. So I'm thinking of upgrading my desktop this year. An iMac seems like a good choice, but then again, maybe a quad core Mac Pro would give me some room to grow and do more in recordings. Or maybe it would be overkill and a waste of money. Plus it could be way louder than an iMac in terms of fan noise. Any thoughts anybody? Is anybody out there using a Core 2 Duo iMac, particularly a recent one, to do recording?

I specifically went out and bought a MacBook for recording, so I could have a mobile recording setup. It replaced my PowerMac G5. From what I remember reading, the speed tests were definitely in favor of the MacBook. Why not use your laptop? Are you running out of CPU bandwidth? I run Pro Tools and never seem to run out of CPU power no matter how much I try to overload it...

Lunkhead wrote:An iMac seems like a good choice, but then again,

I have a new(ish) Core 2 Duo iMac at work (not for recording). I love the machine, but after a couple months, the CD drive (I assume) started making a slight buzzing sound. The computer itself is insanely quiet, but this buzzing would make it kind of annoying for recording. I assume it's the drive, since that's probably the only moving part in the thing. Could be a fan, though. Now that I think about it, I really don't know anything.

Just thought I'd share the little thing I know.

stateshirt wrote:Why not use your laptop?

I need something that's set up and ready to record/mix all the time, since I usually have very little time to record for Song Fight!, let alone set up and tear down gear. Erin uses the laptop for general computer use so the laptop isn't a good candidate for a DAW.

Plus... I haven't gotten an exciting new Mac in a couple years, and I've been looking for an excuse to upgrade my desktop for a while.

Mostess wrote:

Lunkhead wrote:An iMac seems like a good choice, but then again,

I have a new(ish) Core 2 Duo iMac at work (not for recording). I love the machine, but after a couple months, the CD drive (I assume) started making a slight buzzing sound. The computer itself is insanely quiet, but this buzzing would make it kind of annoying for recording. I assume it's the drive, since that's probably the only moving part in the thing. Could be a fan, though. Now that I think about it, I really don't know anything.

Just thought I'd share the little thing I know.

No, it's the drive. These so-called super-drives suck. It seems like every one of them dies eventually and it usually starts with this buzzing you are hearing. Mine does it too. And the one we have at work. The stock drives are really a problem, but I'm not sure how that relates to recording. Are you typically burning CDs while you record?

obscurity wrote:

frankie big face wrote:(That's the first time I ever said "DAW.")

I'm curious about how you're finding the software world after being a hardware holdout for so long. How's it going?

Well, I have been using GarageBand for some time, so I hadn't held out entirely. I don't know--there are still things that bug me about software recording, but I don't feel like I can complain too much until I know more about it. And frankly, the pros so far outweigh the cons that it's a no-brainer.

One thing that has bothered me ever since I started this whole process is recording at 44.1kHz, versus 48kHz. But the alternative (recording at 48 and dithering down to 44.1) isn't any better. Does that bother anybody else? Or does it not even make any sense? (sorry to drift off-topic)

I hear you, but it is worth it.

What I do is record at 24/48 and then just export an mp3 straight from there. I stopped mixing down to 24/48 stereo, dithering to 16/44.1, and then creating an mp3. This is Songfight for heaven's sake.

Ken

How about a Mac mini? They provide all the same sorts of expandability as what you'd need for recording (i.e. firewire and usb2) and they have the same processors as the MacBooks. Of course an 8-core MacPro (or even a 4-core) will kick the pants off of one, but the current Minis are certainly much faster than my dual 2GHz G5.

I wound up getting a refurbished quad 2.8GHz Mac Pro. It's awesome. I suspect it will suit my music-making needs for the next 4-5 years...

Just thought I'd chime in to say that, this past weekend, I replaced by decrepit PC running N-Track Studio with a new 20" iMac 2.66 with 4 gigs of RAM and a copy of Logic Studio. The thing's amazing. Or at least, it will be amazing, once I get the hang of Logic. Hopefully that won't take too much longer. So glad I finally made the switch to Mac.

Logic 8 is perhaps the most intuitive DAW software I've ever used. Check out the Logic QuickTips podcast (on iTunes) if you haven't already since it shows you some of the cool stuff that isn't immediately obvious.

Thanks Fluffy! I hadn't checked that. I have to say, everything about Logic does seem very, er, logical and intuitive. I think the main thing holding me back is breaking 10 years of ingrained habits. For example, I'm accustomed to everything in the arrange window being an actual WAV file that I can simply zoom in on and manipulate. The whole concept of 'regions' is new to me. This, and other, changes of "head space" are causing me to slap my forehead intermittently. I'll check out the podcast...

Yeah, even going from Logic 7 to Logic 8 required a lot of unlearning. 7's UI had a lot of legacy that had accumulated since version 1 when it was still on Atari ST and so there was a LOT to unlearn for 8. Even basic things like creating/linking tracks (it used to be that you had a fixed pool of each kind of track and you had to link arrange tracks to the actual "physical" device). You can still do things the old way if you want to, which is useful for complex automation and such (and still necessary for bus mixes), but for the most part it's completely unnecessary. Also, MIDI routing used to be a HUGE pain in the ass. It isn't anymore.

Although for as long as I've used Logic (version 6), audio was based on regions rather than direct waveforms. Also, if you double-click a region it'll bring up the waveform in the bottom pane (which gives a pretty good general-purpose edit interface), and if you want to do really precise editing, you can edit it in SoundTrack Pro (I forget how you do that, I think it's from the audio dropdown menu).

So, this is the direction I should go? I've finally gotten comfortable with Cubase. I know I don't make professional quality mixes, but I think that's just a lack of knowledge and experience as opposed to my DAW, right? But I will say that I am feeling the limitations of my computer. It's easily overloaded and freezes as I start building too many tracks and plugins. Really kills the mood to have to restart the computer when I'm in a zone.

I'd recommend that you go to your nearby Apple Store and mess around with GarageBand a bit on some computer with an attached MIDI keyboard (which most Apple stores have at least one of). You might even find GarageBand to be sufficient, although Logic Studio is certainly a lot more powerful. They also sometimes have Logic Studio installed on their music-creation demo system as well, so you can mess with that too (although of course you'd be limited to softsynths, no mics or guitar hookups or whatever).

I wouldn't say Logic Studio is absolutely perfect in every respect or anything (no software is), but of all the DAWs I've used it's certainly both the easiest and most powerful I've dealt with, especially compared to Cubase (although personally I thought even Logic 7 blew Cubase away, even with its gimpy UI).

Oh, also, if you're on the fence, watch some of the early episodes of Logic QuickTips, since they mostly focus on the new UI there. Finding out about 'single' view on the mixer was perhaps the single most eye-opening "Holy shit, a DAW doesn't have to fucking suck!" moment.

I'll do that, Fluf. I'll have to find an Apple store by me. I haven't really paid much attention, but Guitar Center sells Macs and everything for them. Now that I think about it, the Mac computers might just be displays for the Apple software, etc. I need to make a string and cord run anyway, so I'll check out the Apple stuff.

BLT, if you want to buy a Mac you don't necessarily have to also switch to Logic. I use Cubase on the Mac, and I've always found it intuitive to me. I haven't tried Logic much, so I can't really compare the two, though. Your Cubase media and dongle (assuming you bought the software) should work on the Mac, too. (If you didn't buy the software, and generally don't buy your audio software, just be aware that it can be harder to pirate stuff on the Mac sometimes, in my experience.)

Yeah, actually all the major pro-end DAW software (Cubase, Live, whatever MOTU is called these days, whatever Cakewalk is called these days, etc.) is available on Mac. And you might not even need any of that since, again, GarageBand is actually surprisingly competent. The major limitations of it are that you can't control external MIDI synths, it doesn't have fine-grained waveform editing, and its track automation is a bit feeble, and of course its UI is sort of Fischer-Price, but the current version even supports simultaneous multi-track recording if you have the appropriate hardware (and pretty much any recording hardware is appropriate).

Oh, also, as a little tip for new Mac recording users, the Audio/MIDI Setup app (in Utilities) lets you create virtual audio devices which chain multiple real devices together, so you don't need to get a multichannel recording box, you can just get a bunch of relatively-cheap USB devices and add channels as you need them, or whatever. (The major downside to that approach is you lose any zero-latency monitoring for input channels which aren't on the same physical device as your output, for what should be obvious reasons.)