The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Hello there:

I am thinking about trying to make a bunch of children's songs, inspired by that one thread about that netlabel for kid's music. I'd like to listen to a bunch of kids' music, so I can get a firmer grasp of what popular modern kids' music sounds like*. If you are a parent with a small kid who listens to music designed for small kids, here are my questions for you:

1. What music does your kid listen to?
2. Do they listen to it because a parent introduced the kid to the music, or was the music introduced to the kid by someone else other than the parent?
3. What is your opinion of the kids music that your kid likes?






*If you don't have small kids, or if your small kids listen to things like Devo or Slayer, your answers will not be helpful to me. Sorry.

May I suggest that your stage name be Erik Waffles? Because kids love waffles. Here, this little video might give you a few tips on marketing your new project.
...oh, and just remember. When people say, hey Erik Waffles, those songs suck, tell them, of course they suck, they're kids songs.

Erik: My cousin's little girl at 5 or 6 (now 7ish) really liked Averil Lavene quite a bit. The album with skater boy or whatever on it. She was introduced to it by way of television.

She also liked No Doubt but I'd say she was more focused on the I'm Just a Girl track... I'm not exactly sure how she came to know that song but I'd have to again attribute that to the television. I'm pretty sure her mom didn't really listen to No Doubt and I know her dad didn't. They listen to the radio a lot so it could have been picked up there.

She made a huge leap between liking The Wiggles to liking mainstream types of music. It was a definite almost over night change. I thought that this would be helpful in the idea that the moment she could differentiate between what was kids music and adult music, she made the change.

I could go on about her other perceptions but that might be more than you are looking for. (One example would be that she once told me that Averil Lavene was more punk rock than me. So I kicked her ass.) However, I think my point is that while she didn't (and still doesn't) listen to Slayer, she did listen to music that empowered her. So I hope that my example isn't too close to your Devo example.

Hoblit wrote:Lavene

Lavigne. Americans and their non-french ways.

I liked Fred Penner a lot for a long time, but I was never into the same music as my friends. They all liked the backstreet boys.

This show is really popular with kids in PA: http://www.kidscorner.org/

Check out this page: http://www.kidscorner.org/html/audio.php
And look for "Kathy's Top Ten CD's of 2007"

I saw the Shins on Yo Gabba Gabba the other day...

erik wrote:Hello there:

I am thinking about trying to make a bunch of children's songs, inspired by that one thread about that netlabel for kid's music. I'd like to listen to a bunch of kids' music, so I can get a firmer grasp of what popular modern kids' music sounds like*. If you are a parent with a small kid who listens to music designed for small kids, here are my questions for you:

1. What music does your kid listen to?
2. Do they listen to it because a parent introduced the kid to the music, or was the music introduced to the kid by someone else other than the parent?
3. What is your opinion of the kids music that your kid likes?

I've been thinking the same sort of thing - but always draw the conclusion that kids music is a lot harder than it looks. But some answers courtesy of my 4-y-o- girl:

1. What music does your kid listen to?
Almost anything - she just loves music. When we walk past the funky clothing stores in the local mall, she always drags me inside so she can dance to the music in front of the big mirrors.

But as far as determining her actual preferences - it appears that the real pros in the business really know what they are doing. The Wiggles really know their shit. Simple melodies, upbeat, happy sound, and Greg has an excellent, clear singing voice (I am not yet familiar with the new yellow Wiggle, Sams work). I have become very familiar with the Wiggle work over the years - some of their songs are just dreadful lyric-wise, and I notice they do a lot of re-cycling of some melodies, but the sound they have perfected seems to always cut through.

Her other favourites are
- Bananas in Pyjamas (cover the more traditional nursery rhyme material - again with simple melodies and perfectly clear enunciation), and the
- Hooley Dooleys (often considered the poor mans Wiggles - they have less stage presence and marketing, but (in my opinion) slightly better songs than the Wiggles)
- Hi-5 (more upbeat, polished pop sound - often indistinguishable from Top 40 type music)

Most of the above feature a significant visual (and marketing) content as well - so it is difficult to know what she likes for the actual music. However, Harriet definitely became familiar with the both the Wiggles and the Hooley Dooleys through CDs before she ever saw their DVDs - so it is definitely he music for those ones. The Bananas are more known for their TV show - their CDs are just a marketing spin-off (though they are very good), and Hi-5 are all colour and movement on the TV screen (often many fathers favourites because of the cute girlies) - their music could be replaced by any modern dance song and no-one would know the difference.

2. Do they listen to it because a parent introduced the kid to the music, or was the music introduced to the kid by someone else other than the parent?

She hears music through,
a) what we buy here
b) what she hears on the TV
c) what she hears at daycare

She definitely makes her own choices. We have bought her CDs she does not like. Some kids shows with music she wants to turn off. She seems perfectly capable of deciding for herself what she does and doesn't like. Though The Wiggles are a huge marketing machine and she is definitely caught in by the marketing - I am still fairly convinced that she genuinely likes their music.

3. What is your opinion of the kids music that your kid likes?
Hi-5 is a bit bland, but the other stuff is all pretty good

I have been trying to work out what "grown-up" music most appeals to her. We have an Architecture in Helsinki record she really seems to like. She sings along to that in the car. I bought an old Tom Tom Club record yesterday, and she almost instantly started singing along to "Wordy Rappinghood". (slightly disturbingly - I heard her singing recently something that sounded like "...hi, my name is, hi my name is..." - and realised she was parroting eminem's Slim Shady that had been on the radio a bit earlier).

Oherwise, she just likes to dance. We danced in the kitchen yesterday to "Hello" by the Cat Empire and "Sunday Girl" by Blondie

This is an example of the Wiggles at their very best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1PXuYt5K8M

If you can bottle what went into writing "Rock-a-Bye Your Bear" - you can become very very rich. Simple, catchy, hand-movements, actions - I don't really know what it is, but I have been to enough kiddie parties to know that this song is 100% pure gold for 2-5 year olds. A deadset winner every time. I play this myself on guitar and kiddies freeze, sit-down and listen - then start to sing along

Very informative. I had no idea that kids music was so... midtempoey.

My boys are 6 and 8 years old. They liked the Wiggles for about a year. They like Dan Zanes, a local rock star-turned kids' music artist. Jason (6) likes the Nutcracker Suite, and they both like Peter and the Wolf. We watched West Side Story recently and Jason loved the Bernstein. Oh, and they like the Backyardigens, and their singing.

Otherwise here are the things they like/ask for (thus added to the "kids" playlist on the iPod:

- Punk Bartender by Teaching Willie (they thrash around in the car, it's great fun)
- The Price is Right by Caravan Ray and my son Jason (they love hearing themselves)
- Skanky Panky by Kid Koala (they love the crazy edits and funny sounds)
- Walking In Your Footsteps by The Police (dinosaurs)
- Walk the Dinosaur by Was (Not Was) (more dinosaurs)
- Yellow Submarine by the Beatles (submarines rule)
- Floating Bridge by MC Frontalot (engineering intrigue)
- Mission Impossible Theme by Adam and Larry, eno, etc. (it's a spy thing)
- Various James Bond themes (more spies)
- United Colours from Passengers (U2 with Eno, Pavorati, etc.)
- Such A Night by Elvis (they love his stop and starts and comments...live in the studio)
- A Tisket, A Tasket by Ella Fitzgerald (LOL)
- I Am The Walrus by the Beatles (also as sung by Jim Carrey)
- Better by Jonathan Coulton (cyborgs and love always popular)
- Chiron Beta Prime by Jonathan Coulton (this is perhaps their over-all favorite, replacing Punk Bartender)
- The Presidents by Jonathan Coulton (hey...history)
- That Spells DNA by Jonathan Coulton (fun with letters)
- De-Evolving by Jonathan Coulton (they appreciate an alternative to evolution theory)
- Call Any Vegetable by Frank Zappa (go figure!)
- Crinkle Binkle by Frankie Big Face

roymond wrote:- Crinkle Binkle by Frankie Big Face

Awww, that's nice! I'll come to your house and play it for them.

I found myself surrounded by very young kids (like 4 or 6) one time at a gig and they really responded to my Evan is Getting His Teeth song. I think they liked the silly list and the fact that it was about a baby.

When she was in pre-school several years back, my daughter's class had a mix CD of their favorites, which included:

No! (TMBG)
All Star (Smashmouth)
The Tide is High (Blondie)
Skyline (Octothorpe)
The Macarena (Sesame Street version)
The House at the Top of the Tree (TMBG)
Everyday People (Sly & The Family Stone)

Those are the ones that she and I remember. SPUD

There is another factor which seems to be very important - which is some sort of familiarity thing. You will notice that all of the stuff I quoted above is Australian - and by far most of the kids stuff we have is local product. I mentioned that clear enunciation seems to be important, and it also appear to help if it the accent is familiar. I have bought Harri Sesame St DVD's - but they don't seem to click with her at all. She does like Dora the Explorer - but the music isn't really a large part of that. She also loves Disney movies, but again - the music doesn't seem to be part of the attraction. She does also love Fifi and the Flower Tots - and sings their songs - but their English/Welsh accents probably sound a bit more familiar to her.

I have always been curious about the Wiggle's international success. They sound very Australian to me. How do their accents come across to Americans. Does their singing sound "accentless" (in the way that Mick Jagger, say, doesn't really sound English when he sings) - or are their accents obvious?

I am also really curious to se how long it will take for Harri to start to pick up a Kiwi accent (shudder) now we are in NZ.

My buddy Michelle's kids (2 and 4) love this local band:

http://www.boggandsalty.com/

I know, I know. Pirates are so 90s. But you know what? Kids dig pirates!

anti-m wrote:My buddy Michelle's kids (2 and 4) love this local band:

http://www.boggandsalty.com/

I know, I know. Pirates are so 90s. But you know what? Kids dig pirates!

That Pieces of 8 video is awesome! I'll show it to Harri when she gets home from kindy - (but I think it might scare her - she's more into fairies)



Actually - one more observation - if you really want music to please a 4 year old, all you have to do is to move to a small town in rural New Zealand and turn on AM radio! I just went for a drive with Harriet, and as the radio blasted out Taranaki's "latest hits" (eg, Roy Orbison, the Everley Brothers, Captain and Tennille, Dr Hook, Sony & Cher....) Harri was singing right along and having a ball!

ken wrote:I saw the Shins on Yo Gabba Gabba the other day...

...which is (the show, not the Shins) the Aquabats' other project, btw. Their concerts are truly all ages, grandchildren through grandparents (gray-haired wrinkly ones, that is) I've seen, all having fun.

But combining superheros, bad kung-fu, and upbeat surf-ska music works for them, heh.

I don't have kids, small or otherwise, but I just want to pipe in and offer encouragement for Erik. This would seem like a good project for you with your strong sense of melody, word play, and pleasant and articulate voice. OK, gush over. But if you ever need a deeper, cartoony voice for a part in a song, lemme know.

Hoblit wrote:I liked Averil Lavene quite a bit. The album with skater boy or whatever on it.

Your cousin's daughter, sure. I picture Hobs singing skater boy into a hairbrush, standing in front of a full length mirror wearing only his baggy fruit of the looms briefs and running mascara.


OK, back to helping Erik.
Here's what I'm seeing from the above:
1. Kids like empowering songs
2. They like interactive hand and body involvement
3. Happy cheerful upbeat melodies
4. Words that are borderline "ok" with parents, like boogers or poo.
5. Funny words, like noodles, cheese, Lollygag, caddywampus, or my favorite because it sounds naughty, but it's not, Kumquat.
6. Simple bouncy beats

Anyone care to add to this list? It's for the children, damn it!

Billy's Little Trip wrote:

Hoblit wrote:I liked Averil Lavene quite a bit. The album with skater boy or whatever on it.

Your cousin's daughter, sure. I picture Hobs singing skater boy into a hairbrush, standing in front of a full length mirror wearing only his baggy fruit of the looms briefs and running mascara.

I don't wear underwear...so....

Also, I must say... for some bubblegum pop music I really didn't think the Averil Lavigneghnnnghne stuff was all that bad. It was produced to the nines, catchy, and overall not bad at all.

I do not own any music by Averil be it CD or mp3. I'm just saying for music that was basically forced into my ear on several long car rides, it didn't bother me all that much. (Pink was the same way when somebody else was playing THAT CD around me once.)

the wiggles rock all that is groovy about kids music! i still remember the lyrics to some of the better songs! oh yea!

Billy's Little Trip wrote:
OK, back to helping Erik.
Here's what I'm seeing from the above:
1. Kids like empowering songs
2. They like interactive hand and body involvement
3. Happy cheerful upbeat melodies
4. Words that are borderline "ok" with parents, like boogers or poo.
5. Funny words, like noodles, cheese, Lollygag, caddywampus, or my favorite because it sounds naughty, but it's not, Kumquat.
6. Simple bouncy beats

Anyone care to add to this list? It's for the children, damn it!

Erik probably needs to define what sort of age he wants to aim to please.

For my 4yo - I think 2,3 and 6 are important. I don't think 1,4 and 5 really register with her yet. Maybe in a couple of years.



On a positive note - the atrocious English kids show "The Fimbles" was just on telly. Harri was attracted by the bright colours and said she wanted to watch it. After 5 minutes of truly awful sappy songs - she came over and handed me her "Hairy Maclarey"* DVD and said "can I watch this instead?" She does have some taste!


*BTW - Don't know if you get it in the States, but "Hairy Maclarey" maybe New Zealand's most famous export after the All Blacks and the Flight of the Conchords. A series of books containing poems about a little black dog, it has been to made in to various cartoons, featuring he illustrations from the books and people reading the poems. The rhyme and rhythm of the verses are superb. By far my favourite children's books to read out loud
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoLie9xz ... re=related

I really have no idea. I guess whatever age listens to the Wiggles and the like: 5 and under? Do kids older than 5 like music that is marketed to kids?