The Song Fight Bulletin Board

I'm not sure how many people here this would directly affect, but I think we'd all suffer indirectly:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec ... 66a190fc4d

Jeff Tweedy, leader of the band Wilco, prefers to record his music on reel-to-reel tape rather than on the digital equipment that has overtaken the music industry. The Chicago rocker and other purists think it confers a warmth and richness to recordings that a computer cannot.

But last Friday Tweedy hit a snag as he prepared for a session in Wilco's Chicago studio space: Nobody could find any of the professional-grade audio tape the band is accustomed to using.

''I was under the impression that there was a shortage of tape in Chicago,'' Tweedy says.

What he didn't realize was that the shortage is global. ...

(The article's also available on http://www.suntimes.com/, though they have an asinine "no deep link" policy.)

And if anyone knows where I can get top-quality wax cylinders, let me know. They give a tinny authenticity that digital can't.

Well, it can, but the romantic vision that got me into this hobby didn't involve web-shopping for plug-ins.

I think it was about a year ago that I bought what I believe were the last four seven-inch reels of new quarter inch tape in the Phoenix area. I have taken to erasing old master tapes for re-use to record new stuff.

Charles (Art is my middle name!)

I have a boatload of 1/4" tape. I was going to throw it out; now it's my retirement fund.

Q: Seriously, are there enough recording ludites (no offence, Art) around to make my unused tape (and unused Reel-to-Reel) remotely valuable?

A: No, but a man can dream.

king_arthur wrote:I have taken to erasing old master tapes for re-use to record new stuff.

My God, that must hurt.

OH PAHLEASE FOR CRYIN' OUT LOUD PEOPLE.

MOVE ON.

This is like saying: I prefer to wash all my dishes by hand. They seem cleaner when I do them one at a time.

When clearly a dishwasher does a better job more efficiently and with temperatures that are better for sanitation.


Tubes are going the same way... ha, down the tube if you will.

Emulation is the future.

*Hoblit stands statuesque next to a 'digital flag' waving ceremoniously

Hoblit, you are clearly the voice of the lame, anusy future.

yes, a lame majority apparently

Hoblit wrote:This is like saying: I prefer to wash all my dishes by hand. They seem cleaner when I do them one at a time.

When clearly a dishwasher does a better job more efficiently and with temperatures that are better for sanitation.

Some people can hear the difference between fancy-ass record players and cd players. I'm not among them, but there's something to it, maybe. Different equipment does different things better.

Some things just DON'T go in the dishwasher; it's not for washing everything. The dishwasher is good for many things, but knives with wooden handles and fancy cocktail glasses with thin necks are not among them. A good dishwasher does a better job than washing by hand overall, but you don't have to learn how to use a dishwasher. Some dude installs them, and if you can pour soap, move a lever and twist a knob, you can use one. Digital recording is hardly that easy.

If someone believes that doing something a certain way produces better results, having them do things according to some different procedure (even if said procedure can produce equal results) then it will usually affect their performance, and actually give shittier results.

I read an interesting article a while back about the slow and gradual slide from analog-recording to digital-recording, which said that the worst thing about the shift was *not* anything about "warmth" or "unstable formats" or any such nonsense, but instead that there are so many happy accidents and unintended hacks that would only be possible in an analog situation. Like if we only had amp sims, no one would ever play through one with a knitting needle jammed through the speaker. Sure, there's ways to get weird sounds out of digital equipment, but only within certain parameters.

15-16 puzzle wrote:If someone believes that doing something a certain way produces better results, having them do things according to some different procedure (even if said procedure can produce equal results) then it will usually affect their performance, and actually give shittier results.

If Jeff Tweedy wants reel-to-reel tape, FOR GOD'S SAKE GIVE THE MAN HIS REEL-TO-REEL TAPE.

Hoblit-

"majority" and "lame" are almost interchangeable.
Examples: top 40 radio, elections, tasmanian devil tattoos, Wal Mart.

*sigh.*


tape.

15-16 puzzle wrote:

Hoblit wrote:This is like saying: I prefer to wash all my dishes by hand. They seem cleaner when I do them one at a time.

When clearly a dishwasher does a better job more efficiently and with temperatures that are better for sanitation.

Some things just DON'T go in the dishwasher; it's not for washing everything. The dishwasher is good for many things, but knives with wooden handles and fancy cocktail glasses with thin necks are not among them. A good dishwasher does a better job than washing by hand overall, but you don't have to learn how to use a dishwasher. Some dude installs them, and if you can pour soap, move a lever and twist a knob, you can use one. Digital recording is hardly that easy.

So we agree, the dishwasher was an awesome analogy!

I see your point. It doesn't change my opinion but it is a good point and I can respect that.

Phil. Redmon. wrote:Hoblit, you are clearly the voice of the lame, anusy future.

Correction: the lame, anusy present.

I've heard it said: "There are two kinds of fool. One says this is old, and therefore good. Another says this is new, and therefore better." I'm a proud member of the latter.

Yes, delay, flange, and multitracking are all results of tape experimentation that are now permanant aspects of recording in any medium, but can anyone say that similar advances won't come from people stretching the boudaries of digital? I, too, wish we could always have everything available instead of some dominant mode taking over the world every so often. But creativity comes from constraint. Be the first to recreate tape warmth using digital means and you will a) become old engineers' new best friend, and b) be able to tweak that process to make some pretty interesting new sounds. Weeping in the empty Ampex isle may feel good, but it ain't making art.

Things you may miss, but I won't: print-through, hiss, noise reduction by low-pass filter, rewinding, garble, cleaning heads, rescuing snagged tape from various spindles, leader tape, splicing tape and splicing blocks, misaligned record heads, clicking sounds from cutting in or out, added noise from ping-ponging to busses or from mixing down, etc., etc. Maybe you spent the money for equipment that solves (or, more likely, reduces) these problems; I feel your pain in that case. But it's hardly a paradise lost.

Phil. Redmon. wrote:Hoblit-

"majority" and "lame" are almost interchangeable.

whateva.

Phil. Redmon. wrote: Examples: top 40 radio, elections, tasmanian devil tattoos, Wal Mart.

Counter examples: pizza, nylon, rock-n-roll, Frisbees, sneakers.

yeah, all that stuff is good.

nylon? what's it the mostesst of?

Phil. Redmon. wrote:IMPRACTICAL = COOL

truth

Phil. Redmon. wrote:Hoblit-

"majority" and "lame" are almost interchangeable.
Examples: top 40 radio, elections, tasmanian devil tattoos, Wal Mart.

*sigh.*


tape.

I can't think of anything more impractical then trying to put a tattoo on a Tasmanian devil. Those little buggers can bite your hand off. That must be cool.

My Dad gave me this cool 8-track and a Betamax VCR for xmas. Does anyone know where I can get stuff to play on them? Oh, no, hang on, if I hang around here with all you old fuddies, I'll miss the danger bus ...

j$

So should I not buy Wilco CDs, but look for the tapes instead?

The fact is that anybody who is convinced that Analog Tape is the recording medium of choice are obviously not taking advantage of modern digital mastering techniques or digital effects. This means that whether or not Analog captures a certain "Warmth" or "Authenticity", the overall perfection level of the recorded song is never going to be able to equal the perfection which can be achieved by the digital medium.

The fact that modern studios can synchronize individual guitar strings and drum hits to within a few milliseconds is one of the primary reasons that most of the modern youth music market don't pay attention to the classics. Modern recordings just sound better. If you where to walk up to any young person (20 or Younger) and ask them if "Linkin Park" is more talented then "Metallica", most of of them would say "Absolutely". This even includes myself before I started researching studio stuff.

"Generic" makes a good point about the final quality of the mix. If the final medium which you are going to sell to the market is going to be Stereo CD then you are already converting to a digital medium which means any of that wonderful "Warmth" and "Authenticity" is lost at that point. That goes for 5.1 DVD Audio Recordings too. It's still a digital medium. For that matter though, I've always kind of felt like the "Warmth" and "Authenticity" people talk about when it comes to Analog recordings is just another word for "Imperfection".