New Sidefight Brainstorming (Inspired By Nur Ein)

[Lunkhead]

I just thought I would create a dedicated topic for this discussion, which so far has been happening in the Nir Ein IV Final Round topic. Personally I like the idea of something that doesn't have the eliminations, where the final ranking is ordered by "points" or something earned in the rounds.

[Caravan Ray]

What about:

Mano Y Mano!

where competitors are drawn randomnly into a series of head-to-head death matches, voted on by all competitors Winner goes on - until only one remains. Sort of like the Nur Ein final - but every week.

It could be stretched out - maybe a month per song, but staggered so there is one match to vote on each week - thus making it more relaxed pace-wise than the frenetic Nur Ein stuff

[JonPorobil]

You preempted me by a few minutes... Well, I got distracted.

So if there is to be a Nur Ein-like side competition focued on point totals rather than eliminations, then a few questions arise:

1. Would there still be a panel of judges?
2. Would there be a limit on the number of participants (upper or lower bounded)?
3. Would the length of each round remain one week?


I kind of like Teplin's idea with different voting standards/challenges/etc each week.

[JonPorobil]

What about:

Mano Y Mano!

where competitors are drawn randomnly into a series of head-to-head death matches, voted on by all competitors Winner goes on - until only one remains. Sort of like the Nur Ein final - but every week.

It could be stretched out - maybe a month per song, but staggered so there is one match to vote on each week - thus making it more relaxed pace-wise than the frenetic Nur Ein stuff

You might be onto something here... A tournament style bracket. But who decides the winner?

[Caravan Ray]

What about:

Mano Y Mano!

where competitors are drawn randomnly into a series of head-to-head death matches, voted on by all competitors Winner goes on - until only one remains. Sort of like the Nur Ein final - but every week.

It could be stretched out - maybe a month per song, but staggered so there is one match to vote on each week - thus making it more relaxed pace-wise than the frenetic Nur Ein stuff

You might be onto something here... A tournament style bracket. But who decides the winner?

Maybe it could be part of normal Songfight.

- First 16 people to put there hands up are in.
- Draw first round match ups out of a hat.
eg - Round 1 - Primitive Screwheads vs Neil Thrun and the Doom Fairies
- Those 2 must do a song for the next scheduled official fight. Most votes in the regular voting system wins, and lives to fight on
- Next official fight, another match up.
- After 8 matches - draw the next round from the winners - and so on
- It leaves open possibilities of friend-flooding. Villians could be created. Like in the wrestling.

[Steve Durand]

What about:

Mano Y Mano!

Uh.....that means "hand and hand"

[Caravan Ray]

What about:

Mano Y Mano!

Uh.....that means "hand and hand"

I don't need you to correct my Spanish, thank you very much. I'll have you know, I once ate at a Mexican restaurant. I'm virtually fluent.

Of course it means "hand and hand". At the end of the competition, you take one hand, and the other hand bang them together to applaud the victor. I thought that was obvious

[swilington]

the point system sounds good. maybe there could be a couple of 'bonus point opportunities' sprinkled throughout the competition. like, covering a specific song or making a music video of your last song. something like that.

[Eric Y.]

Maybe it could be part of normal Songfight.
...must do a song for the next scheduled official fight. Most votes in the regular voting system wins, and lives to fight on

Sounds like a great idea!
Encouraging "regular Song Fight!" participation, listening, voting, etc. within a sidefight == genius.

Although the bit about eliminating people kind of goes against the spirit of Lunkhead's original proposal of not eliminating people.
I think we need a committee.

Some ideas that have been thrown around could be combined:
Whoever wants to participate will unofficially sign up, and then will be obligated to enter some arbitrary number of consecutive fights (say, maybe eight).
The competitors' votes will be tallied from "week" to "week" (by "week" I mean the span of each fight).
If someone flakes one particular week/title, they needn't be penalized because they automatically receive no votes that week.
The reviewing and voting mechanisms are already in place, so this requires minimal effort from an organizer.
At the end, whoever has the most votes will be the grand champion.
Optionally, if enough people are involved (i.e. sixteen or more), the top (eight? four?) competitors could then be thrown into a playoff/bracket system?

EDIT #1:
The concept of "immunity" would be made obsolete by the lack of elimination, but as Swillington points out above, there could be "bonus" opportunities (i.e., fulfill a particular challenge in your song this week, win some kind of contest on the message-boards, be the overall Song Fight! (among all entrants, not just those participating in the semi-sidefight) winner) which could add (1, 3, 5?) extra votes to your running total.

[roymond]

I just thought I would create a dedicated topic for this discussion, which so far has been happening in the Nir Ein IV Final Round topic. Personally I like the idea of something that doesn't have the eliminations, where the final ranking is ordered by "points" or something earned in the rounds.

Viele Ein?

[Caravan Ray]

Although the bit about eliminating people kind of goes against the spirit of Lunkhead's original proposal of not eliminating people.

You gotta eliminate people!! That's where all the fun is! Can't have no GayBoy SongHug Sidefight.

[j$]

GayBoy SongHug.

GayBoy SongHug?

[Eric Y.]

So... do NUR EIN again.

:shrug:

I just thought I would create a dedicated topic for ... something that doesn't have the eliminations

[Rabid Garfunkel]

I'm kinda digging CRay's idea(s). Even before the example contestants.

Thoughts:
• 2 weeks is a better deadline for us procrastinating folks than a month
• Judges should be the same from round to round... 3 feels like a good number, anything less could be misconstrued as "biased", anything more introduces extra complexities in getting everyone together in the same virtual space/time continuum.
• Establish a pool of fighters, then have them pick the judges from amongst themselves. The possibility of judging would be the price of admission. Along with the hope that this would go on for more than just one iteration.
• Why can't all the head to heads go on at the same time, rather than staggered?
/2¢

[Paco Del Stinko]

All of the ideas are making me spin a bit, but I'm interested in what's going on here. If anyone's interested.

[JonPorobil]

Seems to me, we've got two distinct ideas going on here.

One would involve a series of one-on-one fights in a single-elimination tournament-style bracket. I really like this idea, but it would be a hassle to run, and it yet remains to be decided how the winner of each round would be determined. I like this idea, and if it were to happen, I'd probably compete in it.

The other idea would be something similar in structure to Nur Ein, but without eliminations, with the final score based on point totals. Several different ideas have been floated for deciding how points are to be allocated, and I don't think they're mutually exclusive. Supposing, for instance, we had one round where the points were allocated by a panel of judges, one round where the points were allocated by votes in the actual Songfight, one round where the participants judged one another?

I like this second idea so much that I'm willing to volunteer my time and webspace to help make it a reality. If there are no objections, I'd like to take the reins and move it along. I'd welcome any help anyone else would like to contribute, as this may be more work than one man can handle.

Here are some questions I'm open to feedback on:
1.) How long should it be? Nur Ein is two months, and if this competition were of similar length, that's a third of the year Songfight is engaged in some kind of multi-round Sidefight. I'm aware that these can be exhausting, and that they detract from activity on the main Songfight. I'm thinking this competition might be four or five rounds. Songfight Pentathalon, anyone?
2.) How many participants? Without eliminations, the number we start with is the number we end with. Should there be a qualifying round to keep it from being too overwhelming, or should we be all-inclusive?
3.) Providing titles is a given, but should we keep the non-optional challenges? Or is that too much of a Nur Ein thing? Perhaps make the challenges optional, but worth bonus points?
4.) I think Nur Ein drives a lot of its competition by its "You're either in or out" mentality. The deadlines are set, and once you're eliminated, you're out. This generally keeps people from defaulting. Is there any way to get that kind of intensity of competition without the eliminations?
5.) When should it be? I'm thinking October.

[Albatross]

eg - Round 1 - Primitive Screwheads vs Neil Thrun and the Doom Fairies

I'm down with any project that would being Neil Thrun back.

[Billy's Little Trip]

When the nuts and bolts of this idea are worked out, can one of you fine college graduates make a simple to understand step by step process? Maybe with numbers our bullets.
IE:

Lunkheads Fantabulous Musical Voyage
1. A title and challenge is given
2. Write a song in the time given
3. bla bla bla
4. yada yada yada
5. etc etc etc

[Ross]

I don't need you to correct my Spanish, thank you very much. I'll have you know, I once ate at a Mexican restaurant.

I can verify this - he had Chile Relleno and liked it.


Also - I strongly associate the non optional challenges with Nur Ein! I would encourage this side fight to come up with a different unique angle on the songfight universe.

[Spud]

I strongly support everyone getting back into the regular fights.

[Billy's Little Trip]

I strongly support everyone getting back into the regular fights.

I strongly suggest not having a title like the Worlds Greatest Dad.

But yeah, I'm fighting on the next title, no matter what it is. I need to record something.

[Caravan Ray]

I strongly support everyone getting back into the regular fights.

Maybe it could be part of normal Songfight.
...must do a song for the next scheduled official fight. Most votes in the regular voting system wins, and lives to fight on

Sounds like a great idea!
Encouraging "regular Song Fight!" participation, listening, voting, etc. within a sidefight == genius.

Although the bit about eliminating people kind of goes against the spirit of Lunkhead's original proposal of not eliminating people.
I think we need a committee.

Some ideas that have been thrown around could be combined:
Whoever wants to participate will unofficially sign up, and then will be obligated to enter some arbitrary number of consecutive fights (say, maybe eight).
The competitors' votes will be tallied from "week" to "week" (by "week" I mean the span of each fight).
If someone flakes one particular week/title, they needn't be penalized because they automatically receive no votes that week.
The reviewing and voting mechanisms are already in place, so this requires minimal effort from an organizer.
At the end, whoever has the most votes will be the grand champion.
Optionally, if enough people are involved (i.e. sixteen or more), the top (eight? four?) competitors could then be thrown into a playoff/bracket system?

EDIT #1:
The concept of "immunity" would be made obsolete by the lack of elimination, but as Swillington points out above, there could be "bonus" opportunities (i.e., fulfill a particular challenge in your song this week, win some kind of contest on the message-boards, be the overall Song Fight! (among all entrants, not just those participating in the semi-sidefight) winner) which could add (1, 3, 5?) extra votes to your running total.

- Run over 8 weeks of normal Songfights
- Competitors accumulate their votes week by week as a cumulative score
after 8 weeks - an average score is arrived at from the competitors best 6 songs (ie, 2 scores can be discarded - meaning they can drop out a week or two if they like)
-Each player gets one "joker" to play. Announced before the songs are posted - and the player gets double points for that round
- additional non-optional challenges may be applied for players - in addition to the Songfight title
- an additionsal scoring system may also be added, a la RG's "• Establish a pool of fighters, then have them pick the judges from amongst themselves. The possibility of judging would be the price of admission. Along with the hope that this would go on for more than just one iteration.". Final score is average of best 6 (votes + judges score) over 8 weeks
- after 8 weeks EVERYONE IS ELIMINATED!!!!!!!