The Song Fight Bulletin Board

When I wanted to enter my very first Songfight, I didn't know a thing about how to record music. So I downloaded a freeware program that recorded audio directly into mp3 format, and I sat in front of the computer for hours trying to nail my guy-and-guitar song in one take. The results were a predictably unlistenable first four songs.

Through interacting with the fine people on the board, I became aware that there existed fairly easy-to-operate programs which would allow me to record separate parts separately, and thus did I learn about multitracking.

Ever since then, I've always felt kind of blind about mixing. I don't really know how to determine how loud to make each instrument, what effects to put on there, how to make my voice not sound like it's badly pasted onto the musical bed, &c. When I do get it right, I still feel like it's more because of luck than experience.

So can someone recommend any resource, either in the form of a website tutorial or a printed book, on just how to take a bunch of tracks and make a professional-sounding song out of 'em? I don't mind being talked down to at first, if that's what it takes; I've probably engrained quite a few bad habits by now.

Here's what came up in a Google search for "how to mix a song"

This one seems on the right track:
http://www.ehow.com/how_4487393_mix-song.html

The book Guerrilla Home Recording (How To Get Great Sound From Any Studio no matter how weird or cheap your gear is) is something I've found helpful. It's OOP, and I haven't read the newer 2nd edition, but it's worth a look.

Thanks guys.

I also found this, which is mainly geared towards people mixing songs for strangers, but there's enough nitty-gritty details for it to be useful to us Songfighters, too.

Send me your tracks, I'll give it a go, and let you know what I did.

Lunkhead wrote:Send me your tracks, I'll give it a go, and let you know what I did.

Even though I'm usually on the receiving end of this kind of stuff, I'd give it a shot too, if you don't mind. Every song I mix is a learning experience for me.

I just want to clarify that it was a serious offer, in spite of the emoticon. I put the emoticon there because I felt a bit cheeky offering my services, since I don't really consider myself an expert or anything. I feel similarly to Reist, though, which is that I learn more by doing it. Also I actually kinda enjoy doing it.

OK then!

I have a job for both of you.
Let me get myself organised - and I'll get something to you




BTW - I am going later this arvo to a REAL recording studio!!

The local Songwriters group here puts out an album every year - and I have been invited to contribute this year. So I get 6 hours of free studio time.

It will be interesting to see the 'professionals' work (well, small, rural town in NZ professionals, anyway). As luck would have it though - I caught a cold last week and my voice is buggered

Lunkhead wrote:I just want to clarify that it was a serious offer, in spite of the emoticon. I put the emoticon there because I felt a big cheeky offering my services, since I don't really consider myself an expert or anything. I feel similarly to Reist, though, which is that I learn more by doing it. Also I actually kinda enjoy doing it.

Next time I wind up with some raw tracks that haven't been mixed yet, I'll take you up on that offer, because your mixes sound brilliant. I currently don't have any songs that I haven't already mixed in some fashion involving destructive editing (oops).

Reïst wrote:

Lunkhead wrote:Send me your tracks, I'll give it a go, and let you know what I did.

Even though I'm usually on the receiving end of this kind of stuff, I'd give it a shot too, if you don't mind. Every song I mix is a learning experience for me.

Hey Reist, I know your "Bullets and Lovers" was mixed by Big Crouton, but did you do all the rest of your Nur Ein tracks yourself? Because those mixes all sounded huge and nearly professional.

Generic wrote:Hey Reist, I know your "Bullets and Lovers" was mixed by Big Crouton, but did you do all the rest of your Nur Ein tracks yourself? Because those mixes all sounded huge and nearly professional.

Yep, mixed them all by myself. Thanks for the kind words - mixing used to be the bane of my existence, but it's going better these days ... though I have a tendency to compress the life out of everything I do.

Reïst wrote: Even though I'm usually on the receiving end of this kind of stuff, I'd give it a shot too, if you don't mind. Every song I mix is a learning experience for me.

I have a song I'd like you to have a crack at.

I can give you a set of raw .AIF tracks - or would you prefer them coverted to .WAV or something?

I just need to work out how to get them to you. Don't know if their size will make them email friendly, and I have no webspace of my own.

I know there are sites where I can upload stuff - many have been suggested here - I will just go back and look at some other threads (unless someone can save me the effort and suggest something)

Lunkhead wrote:Send me your tracks, I'll give it a go, and let you know what I did.

You are a Mac man aren't you?

Do you want raw AIF files? Or would you prefer my original Garageband .BAND file?

Caravan Ray wrote:

Reïst wrote: Even though I'm usually on the receiving end of this kind of stuff, I'd give it a shot too, if you don't mind. Every song I mix is a learning experience for me.

I have a song I'd like you to have a crack at.

I can give you a set of raw .AIF tracks - or would you prefer them coverted to .WAV or something?

I just need to work out how to get them to you. Don't know if their size will make them email friendly, and I have no webspace of my own.

I know there are sites where I can upload stuff - many have been suggested here - I will just go back and look at some other threads (unless someone can save me the effort and suggest something)

16 bit wav files are fine - I'm not a 24 bit guy - I honestly can't hear the difference. As for email, yousendit.com works great for ginormous files. I'll pm you some more details.

Caravan Ray wrote:

Lunkhead wrote:Send me your tracks, I'll give it a go, and let you know what I did.

You are a Mac man aren't you?

Do you want raw AIF files? Or would you prefer my original Garageband .BAND file?

Fun! I am a Mac user, so AIFs are just fine. I have little to no Garageband experience so I probably wouldn't be able to do much with that project file. As for transferring the files, I'm not sure what's best on that front. During FAWM we shared files using Dropbox (http://www.getdropbox.com/) and that was very easy to use. You'd have to either sign up and give me the password for the Dropbox account, or you could sign up and upload the files to a folder that you could then share with user "zinklinefawm2009@gmail.com". I think Ken and Glenn Case and Anti-M collab'd the latter way once. (The cool thing about Dropbox is that they have Windows/Mac clients in addition to a Web interface, and it works like any old folder on your computer, but it synchs up to the server automatically in the background.)

We did. Lunkhead, if you send them a referral, we get extra storage, so if you go this route, take the extra minute to swap emails.

Ken

Ah, good point Ken. Ray, if you want to try Dropbox, send me your e-mail so I can refer you and get a storage bump please. Thanks!

Look, it's really very simple, and all you need is your instrument, a method of recording to the computer (A computer microphone works fine for low budget stuff), a tracking program such as Audacity, which is completely free, and complete SILENCE while recording.

1. Record each instrument seperately
2. Don't bother recording in one take if doing so will cause mistakes. If you have to, you can mix any number of tracks back into one.
2. a. corollary: When you do that, make sure that each part of your new track is the same volume. A good way to do that is with the compressor effect that comes with audacity. Experiment untill you get it right. You can always press undo.
3. If you have each track seperately with as little noise as possible, and no mistakes in the recording, all that's left to work on is deciding for yourself what should be louder than anything else. for example: if you can't hear the drums, they're either not loud enough or everything else is too loud. You want to be able to hear everything clearly with nothing overpowering anything else. This can be tricky with vocals, as often your vocals will have to be louder than everything else in order to be able to make out the lyrics clearly.

I hope I've helped out in any way

Look, it's really not that simple, otherwise we wouldn't have this thread. Your method will produce decent mixes, but not good mixes.
Apart from that, compression isn't the magic wand for everything. Most notably, many acoustic instruments (including vocals) sound pretty crappy if you use compression too aggressively. Apart from that, compression can't really save you from getting a muddy mix (in fact it will probably make the mix even muddier if not supplemented by appropriate use of EQ).

Like a great many things in life, if you think mixing a song is easy, it probably means you're not doing it very well.

Yeah, N00B! That's what you get for trying to help!

Heh.

But y'know, he's fundamentally right. The real secret to mixing? GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT.

Set yourself up for success by getting the best sound possible into your computer (yes, I'm assuming computer). It's really true that if you have a beautiful vocal or instrumental track you often don't have to do anything to it and the more you mess with it the more you're going to screw it up. And if you're using a patch from a keyboard it's likely to have been EQ'ed at the factory, and often the best thing to do is leave it alone aside from the levels.

Use your ears.

I know, I know, I'm mean.

Not EQ'ing a song with things recorded from the real world, even if they're performed and recorded very well, is typically still suboptimal since the various tracks will still steal frequency bands from each other. Of course that's less true for less dense arrangements.

jb wrote:GARBAGE IN/GARBAGE OUT.

That's pretty much what i was saying, yeah.