The Song Fight Bulletin Board

When I'm using headphones, everything seems to sound good (in tune, etc) then when I switch to monitors, my skin crawls and I dive for the Delete button. I can't sing while monitoring through headphones. Is there a specific type of mic that would work for not picking up too much of the backing music while recording vocs? Or some sort of sound trap setup where I could still hear the monitors but none not a lot of the sound would be reflected back into the mic?

Any cardioid mic would work fairly well for this. There are some tricky tricks, but I find that if you just keep the monitors kind of low and your mouth near the mic the bleed is manageable.

I think you'd be surprised at how many hit record vocals were recorded on an SM58 in the control room with the monitors blaring. Beck is one and Rage Against the Machine is Another.

Ken

Don't give up on the headphones yet. Try listening with one ear only (you need good headphones to prevent sound bleeding) or experiment with increasing or decreasing the mic level in the monitor mix.

Ken: I guess the biggest problem would be mixing? Like, if I were to use compression on the vocal track, it would highlight the monitor bleed? Or maybe it would give the track a 'live' feel? I do in fact have a couple sm58s and an sm57, so I will experiment.

Jast: heh. I started with a Fostex 4-track back in about 1988, and I've always had this problem. Singing live is fine, or strumming the acoustic and singing is fine, etc., but can't do the headphone thing. Unless I'm screaming, and don't care about such things as key and melody.

I thought the title of the thread was humorous considering I've NEVER used headphones when recording vocals. So I'm not even sure what to say.

I've never tried it, but I saw it mentioned on a different forum.

http://www.wikihow.com/Record-Vocals-Without-Headphones

Thread where I heard of it: http://stillepost.ca/boards/index.php?topic=123832.0

deetak wrote:I've never tried it, but I saw it mentioned on a different forum.

http://www.wikihow.com/Record-Vocals-Without-Headphones

Thread where I heard of it: http://stillepost.ca/boards/index.php?topic=123832.0

That's what I'm talking about! Perfect guide, and exactly what I was looking for. The phase canceling step never even occurred to me.

A variation on this that you might try is to set up your two monitor speakers, with the instrumental track in mono, speakers out of phase. The sound from the two oop speakers will cancel at the microphone.

Or check out the wikipedia article on the Grateful Dead Wall of Sound -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_of_So ... eful_Dead) (and be sure to follow the link to the tech specs on nii.net).

They used two out of phase microphones for each singer, a couple inches apart... sing into one and the other is just the instrumentals. They had this huge stack of speakers BEHIND the singers, but no feedback because all the sound coming from the speakers cancelled out in the two mics.

Anyway, depending on how clean you need the vocal track to be, one or both of these might avoid the need to dub a separate channel, although with the first you'd need to remember to put the speakers back in sync before you mix!

And, ya know, a lot of singers just use one side of the headphones so they can hear the track in one ear and then hear their voice in the room...

Charles

Someone told me to take the headphone off one ear when recording vocals, and since then it's happiness. I also pan the mix to the remaining side so there's virtually no bleed at all. I also mute lots of unneeded tracks (backing vocals, sonics, etc.) and disable some effects so it's all geared towards a tight vocal take. But some songs are all about the ambiance, so it's as-needed to keep my feeble mind workable.

jast wrote:Try listening with one ear only (you need good headphones to prevent sound bleeding)

I do the one ear thing for all my recordings. But I disagree that you need good headphones. If there's bleed, just sing louder - if you're planning on using monitors, you're going to be expecting sound bleed anyway.

deetak's link wrote:Ever notice that some singers have a hard time recording their vocals on pitch when wearing headphones? This is due to the proximity of the speaker cone to the ear canal, which, depending on the size and shaping of the individuals ear canal, can drastically distort the delivery of the playback's pitch to the singers ear, causing the singer to sing off key. Singers are used to hearing music from a distance when in rehearsal, so you may find better pitch and emotion by ditching the headphones.

That's me, totally. Please, people; I've tried the one-side-only approach (on both ears) and it doesn't work for me.

Reïst wrote:But I disagree that you need good headphones. If there's bleed, just sing louder - if you're planning on using monitors, you're going to be expecting sound bleed anyway.

Not in a studio setting. If I want to layer loads of tracks and there is bleeding in them, it will accumulate and make things sound really messy. No thanks.
(FWIW, "good headphones" doesn't mean billion dollar headphones, but closed back might be necessary, and those stop sounding like crap at around $70).

jast wrote:Not in a studio setting. If I want to layer loads of tracks and there is bleeding in them, it will accumulate and make things sound really messy. No thanks.

Yes, I realize what bleed is.

Just saying that if I was choosing between speakers blaring music in the background and headphones with a little bit of bleed, I would choose the headphones.

And anyways ...

Märk wrote:That's me, totally. Please, people; I've tried the one-side-only approach (on both ears) and it doesn't work for me.

This issue doesn't really relate to the topic at hand anymore.

Märk wrote:Please, people; I've tried the one-side-only approach (on both ears) and it doesn't work for me.

It would be nice to give some basic information like this when you ask for help. Naturally, when you ask about what's going wrong people will make sincere suggestions and then feel a little unappreciated when you swipe them away as if they're ignorant or stupid.

Märk wrote:Ken: I guess the biggest problem would be mixing? Like, if I were to use compression on the vocal track, it would highlight the monitor bleed?

I don't see how you'd want to do much treatments on those tracks, but that's an art I'm sure someone who produces recordings off live sound boards knows more about. But if you want to effect tracks with little worry...

roymond wrote:

Märk wrote:Please, people; I've tried the one-side-only approach (on both ears) and it doesn't work for me.

It would be nice to give some basic information like this when you ask for help. Naturally, when you ask about what's going wrong people will make sincere suggestions and then feel a little unappreciated when you swipe them away as if they're ignorant or stupid.

It's like if I asked the question "Is there any way to dig a hole without using a shovel?" and a bunch of people suggested using a shovel painted red or cutting 3 inches off the handle of a shovel. I sincerely appreciate everyone's suggestions, but my original intent was to find a way to record vocals *without* using headphones.

Have you tried painting some headphones red?

Caravan Ray wrote:Have you tried painting some headphones red?

FNAR FNAR FNAR

Thinking outside the box.

1) record bassline
2) lowpass EQ the bassline
3) sing along to that with no headphones
4) highpass EQ your vocal track

Mostess wrote:Thinking outside the box.

1) record bassline
2) lowpass EQ the bassline
3) sing along to that with no headphones
4) highpass EQ your vocal track

Brilliant. You thrive outside the box.