The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Never owned drums before, can't play 'em (yet). Happy Christmas to Mostess:



Where do I put them? How do I take care of them? What adjustments will I not think to make?

We'll obviously do what sounds/feels great, we're just looking for advice from experienced playas.

Sorry about the Nevada. I'll shrink the JPG in a bit...

Specific Question 1: Bare (wood) floor or rug underneath?

(I imagine Specific Questions will be arising periodically through the week...)

Wood floor. The sound reflects up off of it and sounds nice. It really depends on your room though.

I suggest you get a drum dial if you aren't experienced tuning drums. I find it works fairly well and once you find the sweet spot for tuning your drums it makes things a lot simpler.

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/ ... sku=442160

I'll let you in on another secret. This is the snare mic I use for Berkeley Social Scene drums: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=277127

Have fun. Keep it simple. I typically use 3 mics on the drums, kick,snare,overhead.

Ken

Mostess wrote:Where do I put them? How do I take care of them? What adjustments will I not think to make?

You'll want them in a fairly soundproofed area - you don't want neighbours and family hating you within the first week.
Care-wise, getting new heads periodically and tuning the drums often is important. Adjustment-wise, just move things where they feel right to you - ever drummer is different placement.

Mostess wrote:Specific Question 1: Bare (wood) floor or rug underneath?

I've been told wood sounds better, and I believe these people.

Mind you, I record in a hardly-soundproofed room loaded with carpet, and still have factory heads on my toms. So maybe I should be taking my own advice before dishing it out.

But change your snare head often, and tune it!!! That's something I neglected for a few years, and the sound just deteriorated to horrible.

Not a drummer, by any means, but tuning is big. I do it in my simple fashion before every recording session. While my cheapo kit may not sound great, the recordings of it have improved greatly over the couple of years I've been bashing by tuning them up.

I vaguely remember Leaf & Blue (and Ken, I think) having an insanely in-depth drum tuning thread somewhere in here...

...much more in-depth than using the first notes of the wedding march for the note/interval/relationship of the three toms, heh.

Specific Question #2: Is there a trick to keeping the snare from resonating with the kick so that the kick doesn't sound like a snare hit?

I've wondered about this one for a while. If the answer is careful tuning, then so be it. Tuning seems to be paramount.

Tuning. You really can't stop the drums vibrating each other, but if your snare is buzzing it is probably too loose. FInd the knob on the snare that tightens the snare and keep turning it until the snare sounds a little choked and then back it off.

ken wrote:if your snare is buzzing it is probably too loose.

Word to ken. Keeping the snare reasonably tight really helps your tone too, not just with buzzing. But I guess tone is a matter of preference, and a buzzing snare is largely to be avoided.

Alright. First song with (my own*) live drums has gone through the ringer to chilly-to-lukewarm reviews. I was quite pleased with the response---I expected worse.

So here's the update on the issues I'm having:

1) Posture: leaning forward is engaging and fun but makes me louder and I tire more quickly; sitting straight feels restrained and sometimes awkward. I've noticed watching drummers that most sit straight so I assume that's what I should practice doing. Am I over-thinking?

2) Hi-hat volume: It's just too much damned fun to play that thing too loudly. I didn't notice until I'd recorded it that I was hitting it way too hard. Any quick tips for reigning it in? Probably need to just use it less. But the thing is adjustable in six different ways; is there a quick make-it-quieter knob somewhere?

3) Kit scooting forward: this is an easy thing to solve, I think, but I haven't bothered to try since I'm never playing for more than a couple minutes straight. The kit scoots forward a millimeter with each kick hit. I'm assuming a strip of no-slip stuff for under area rugs would do the trick. Am I wrong?

4) Mic'ing the snare: I don't want to buy more mics. I have a Sure 58-beta cardioid, a cheapo Tascam condensor, and fat Nady condensor. The first and third need an XLR cable (of which I have only one). For "Front and Center" I put the Nady up high to catch the room, angling it to catch as much snare as possible, and the Tascam right in front of the kick (since I was scared I wouldn't get enough ooomf otherwise). Result: wimpy snare. So my plan is: buy another XLR cable and use the Sure between the snare and the kick, and keep the Nady up high for room/tom/cymbals since that seemed to work okay. Any other suggestions?

5) Timing and playing: I have crummy timing. I need to practice, obviously. Now I can see why drummers are generally obsessed with grooving as they walk around their daily lives; it used to seem silly but now it seems necessary. Anyone have tips on improvin' the groovin'?




*I forgot our "Stuck Down a Mineshaft" featured a friend on drums.

I'm going to listen to your song while I reply...

1. Yes, please try to sit up straight. Think about moving the drums and cymbals instead of your body. I obsessed for a while about the optimum height for my drum stool to create the optimum angle for my legs to play the kick drum. I also bought longer drumsticks when I realized that I was holding my sticks past the end of the stick. Ergonomics is important in all things.

2. You have to "mix" yourself when playing the drums. Kick and Snare are the loudest elements, then the toms, and lastly the cymbals. I'm sure you can find tricks to help cut down the level of high hat, but the best thing you can do is just practice playing the high hats as lightly as possible while playing the kick and snare as loud as possible. Additionally, smaller darker high hats seem to be less of an issue.

3. Check to see if your kick drum legs have spikes on the ends and dig them into your floor. If your drums are on a carpet and the whole carpet is moving forward try to get as much of the carpet under your stool to weigh it down. Again, I suggest keeping the kit on a bare floor, but if it isn't an option you could always put something heavy in front of it. When I tracked drums in my old bed room, I would put the kick drum against the futon. Not only did it keep it from sliding, but the futon absorbed some of the excess low end frequencies.

4. Can you record three mics at once? If you can only use two mics, Use the Beta 58 on the kick and the Nady as an over head. I think your real problem with the snare is tuning and playing. Does it sound good to in the room when you play it? Wimpy = weak. Hit the drum harder. If you can record a third mic, once you get the other two mics sounding good alone and together, add the Tascam as a snare mic. Position it about two inches above the rim of the snare, about two inches back, under the high hat, point down towards the center of the snare. This is not much of an angle, and you should be hitting the snare in the middle. If not, point the mic where you are hitting the drum. If you want more attack (head sound) point the mic closer to the edge of the drum. Another technique that might work well with this mic is to mic the shell of the drum on the side. This gives more body than attack or snare, but sometimes sounds nice.

5. You can improve your groove by playing simply and practicing with a metronome. I find that just playing a straight four, (Kick - snare - kick -snare) is tough for a lot of casual drummers. This simple drum beat can be incredibly powerful if played with precision and authority. If you can make this groove you have the foundation for more complicated beats.

I also suspect your overhead mic is too high. Try it at head height or lower next time. You really have to use your ears, have someone play the kit while you listen. If you don't have a drum playing accomplice, record and check. Spend some time just moving the mic up and down, left and right to see what happens. For BSS, I have a small diaphragm condenser almost at cymbal height as close to the center of the kit as possible pointed mainly toward the snare.

I really like this article by Andy Hong on recording drums at home: http://www.kimcheerecords.com/articles/drums/

Good luck!

Ken

Thanks Ken! Advice well given!

Also, I finally put a pillow in the kick because I wasn't able to tune it to sound like a kick. Boom. Done. Pillow. So here's another question:

Why don't kick drums come pre-pillowed with space-age kick drum interior pillowing optimized for pillow kick pleasure?