The Song Fight Bulletin Board

jb wrote:I assume you already know how to set your MIDI controller to be an input, since you say you're only having latency issues and not "can't get it to make a sound" issues.

That's from Wages' midi thread, and exactly my problem. I've tried setting a midi controller to be an input in Reaper, but I can't get it to make a sound.

I'm using my keyboard as a controller, if that's helpful. It might also just sound wrong and stupid to someone who knows how to use MIDI. Could someone with Reaper/MIDI experience walk me through the process of recording MIDI and getting it to make noise? I'm completely lost.

Thanks!

Basically it goes like this:

- set the track's input to the appropriate MIDI device.
- add a VSTi to the track's FX chain.
- to test, enable record arm and monitoring (click the loudspeaker symbol once; if you click twice it'll only be enabled during recording IIRC).

If that doesn't work, could you explain in what way it doesn't work? Do you see MIDI events showing up in the new MIDI track during record?

jast wrote:- set the track's input to the appropriate MIDI device.

That was the first step I tried, but my keyboard doesn't show up as a midi device.

I have it plugged in with 2 midi cables - MIDI In (keyboard) to MIDI Out (interface) and MIDI Out (keyboard) to MIDI IN (interface). Is that the wrong setup? I'm confused as to why the keyboard doesn't show up as an input.

Reïst wrote:

jast wrote:- set the track's input to the appropriate MIDI device.

That was the first step I tried, but my keyboard doesn't show up as a midi device.

I have it plugged in with 2 midi cables - MIDI In (keyboard) to MIDI Out (interface) and MIDI Out (keyboard) to MIDI IN (interface). Is that the wrong setup? I'm confused as to why the keyboard doesn't show up as an input.

I'm just learning Reaper myself.

Have you enabled the MIDI inputs?

Options > Preferences > Audio/Midi Devices. In the upper pane (MIDI inputs), you should see a list of available devices. To enable one, right-click it and then change the setting.

You have to set your Input Box as the Midi input if you're plugging actual Midi cables into it. My Midi controller is USB so it shows up as itself in my Device list... but you'd have to select your Tascam device or whatever it is you're using as the Midi device.

ujnhunter wrote:You have to set your Input Box as the Midi input if you're plugging actual Midi cables into it. My Midi controller is USB so it shows up as itself in my Device list... but you'd have to select your Tascam device or whatever it is you're using as the Midi device.

AJOwens wrote:Options > Preferences > Audio/Midi Devices. In the upper pane (MIDI inputs), you should see a list of available devices. To enable one, right-click it and then change the setting.

No good, my interface doesn't show up there as an available device. Which is strange, since it's working fine for recording xlr and line in. Any other ideas? I'm at a loss - this seems like it should be a simple process.

Have you installed the proper drivers? This seems like a no-brainer... but your computer might have plug-n-play installed your device as an audio device just fine, but may need the actual device drivers (not the default audio drivers) to use as a midi device... ::shrug::

Reïst wrote:No good, my interface doesn't show up there as an available device. Which is strange, since it's working fine for recording xlr and line in. Any other ideas? I'm at a loss - this seems like it should be a simple process.

The xlr and line in stuff is audio coming out of your keyboard. The midi is completely separate circuitry altogether. Nothing strange about one working and the other not.

jb wrote:

Reïst wrote:No good, my interface doesn't show up there as an available device. Which is strange, since it's working fine for recording xlr and line in. Any other ideas? I'm at a loss - this seems like it should be a simple process.

The xlr and line in stuff is audio coming out of your keyboard. The midi is completely separate circuitry altogether. Nothing strange about one working and the other not.

Yeah, I've determined that my interface may be to blame for this - I hooked my midi cables to my drum machine to see if it would show up as an input, but no such luck.

But then ...

I tried out usb, and voila!! My keyboard instantly shows up as an input, and my fears dissipate. I guess I'll return those midi cables and pick up a brand spanking new usb cord. Thanks for the help, guys. I'll let you know if there's any problems once I get the usb cord.

So I've watched a few tutorials now, but none of them seem to address this -

How do I access my keyboard's sound bank within reaper (so I can still play with the same sounds I like, but quantize if I need to?)

MIDI does not transmit sounds, only notes. You'll probably have to do something as convoluted as:

- Get the keyboard to transmit MIDI to the host.
- Get the host to transmit MIDI back to the keyboard.
- Record the keyboard's audio output.

This is one of those fundamental concepts that nobody ever bothers to explain. The truth is that if you want to send MIDI to your computer, and then use your keyboard's sounds, you're really going to be treating the keyboard as two separate gadgets:

1. The MIDI controller keyboard, which sends the notes to your computer to store in the sequencer.
2. A sound generator controlled by your computer, receiving the MIDI sequence from your computer and turning that into audio, which you record using the Audio Out jacks on your keyboard (going to a Line In jack on your audio interface).

It makes kind of a loop, or an insert type setup, in my head. It feels odd to have to think about it that way, but that's what's happening, and it works something like how Jast laid it out.

JB

jast wrote:Get the host to transmit MIDI back to the keyboard.

That's the one step I'm having problems with. Do you have a step-by-step explanation of how this could be accomplished?

ps - is there a free VSTi you'd recommend so I so I can get some practice before I get started working with the keyboard sounds?

The 4Front Piano Module isn't half bad.

For sending MIDI data from REAPER to a MIDI instrument, use the IO button of the track and in the pop-up window choose a MIDI output device from the section titled "MIDI Hardware Output". At least that's how I think it works. I don't have any MIDI instruments I could test it on.

thanks jast, I'll give that a try when I get home.

If you couldn't see the MIDI IN on your hardware, you probably can't see the MIDI OUT. I hope to stand corrected. Meantime, did you try installing the drivers that came with the HW?

[EDIT]But maybe the USB-connected keyboard will show up as a MIDI OUT.

jast wrote:The 4Front Piano Module isn't half bad.

For sending MIDI data from REAPER to a MIDI instrument, use the IO button of the track and in the pop-up window choose a MIDI output device from the section titled "MIDI Hardware Output". At least that's how I think it works. I don't have any MIDI instruments I could test it on.

I tried out the 4Front Piano Module, turned the input to all channels, and I now have sound! I haven't figured out how to get my keyboard's sound bank usable yet, and editing the midi signal itself (quantizing etc) is still a mystery to me. But it's nice to have a breakthrough like this - it gives me hope.

AJOwens wrote:If you couldn't see the MIDI IN on your hardware, you probably can't see the MIDI OUT. I hope to stand corrected. Meantime, did you try installing the drivers that came with the HW?

[EDIT]But maybe the USB-connected keyboard will show up as a MIDI OUT.

Yeah, when I used USB instead of MIDI cables, my x50 showed up as an input. When you say HW, I assume you mean hardware, so in that case - no drivers were needed. It just worked magically.

ps - mind you - I still can't get the sound to play through my computer speakers as I play on the keyboard. That would be a serious breakthrough, but I'm a little too slow to figure it out at this point.


pps - they show this image on the front page of reaper's website - how do I find this tool? It looks vastly useful.

1. Track>Insert New Virtual Instrument on New Track
2. Insert>Insert New Midi Item
3. Double Click on New Midi Item in Virtual Instrument Track - That opens the Piano Roll where you can edit midi notes etc...

To Quantize notes or events Hit the Edit menu in the Piano Roll or to Record Quantized notes, hit the "In" button next to the "Monitor" button on the Track and select "Track Recording Settings"

Thanks dude, I'll give that a try after school today.