The Song Fight Bulletin Board

The title pretty much sums it up - I'm having serious latency issues with midi in reaper. I've tried ASIO4ALL, I've tried reducing buffers, but it's just not working. Does getting a better sound card reduce latency?

The sound card can make a huge difference. You don't say what sound card you're using. If it's the one that came with the PC, or the onboard sound card, then you probably need to buy an ASIO-compatible sound card. That's the first thing I found out when I got my MIDI controller a few years ago. The latency from the onboard card made it unusable for playing virtual synths.

I get good results with the M-Audio 2496 (about $100 CDN [or US, come to that!] in Upper Canada; needs a PCI slot). I've also had good latency results with a Tascam USB interface in about the same price range, except that there was some kind of noise on the USB connection. Most people are surprised to hear that, so I guess it's not a common problem.

AJOwens wrote:I get good results with the M-Audio 2496 (about $100 CDN [or US, come to that!] in Upper Canada; needs a PCI slot).

So how do you install that? I'm unfamiliar with this territory - can I still use my keyboard to USB connection, or do I have to plug directly into the sound card?

It's just like a regular sound card with Line IN and Line OUT, but it also has MIDI IN and MIDI OUT connectors, and a driver that supports USB MIDI in and out [EDIT -- not sure there's a driver involved, or MIDI USB OUT. I use a USB MIDI keyboard with it, so the bottom line is that it works for what you want.] So there's probably no change to your setup.

If you connect your keyboard via USB, the sound card isn't actually involved at all. It just means that you either have a USB-to-MIDI cable with an integrated MIDI interface, or that your keyboard has a USB MIDI interface integrated in it. In either case, the sound card won't change anything at all.

If you're doing round trips (MIDI from keyboard to host -> MIDI from host to keyboard -> audio from keyboard to host) and the latency is not actually due to the first or second step, a new sound card may indeed help. Then again, this kind of looping around will, of course, always increase latency.
Your host probably has some kind of dialog where it shows you the latency of your sound card. If that's higher than, say, 10 milliseconds, a new sound card might actually help. The M-Audio 2496 is something that's frequently recommended; personally I use the E-MU 0404 PCI.

Take it down a notch in explanation, people. Sounds like this guy's using a Creative sound card or the like, and doesn't know really anything about sound cards or interfaces specifically designed for recording music. No offense intended, I'm just trying to target the help to your level of knowledge.

Also, when asking questions about equipment, please include the details of what you are using now and how it's hooked up. You may think you have an easy question, but odds are the answer will require some knowledge of how you're set up now.

JB

The garanteed solution:
1. Buy an interface like a Presonus Firebox or M-Audio unit.
2. Use the sound card and drivers that come with said unit.
3. Run all instruments and mics through said interface for recording.

I say this because ultimately it is a final solution to your problem. By the time you mess around and spend money on other things, you can pick up a used or new FireBox or M-Audio unit for $100 - $300 and be done with it.

The only other thing I can add is that I have to have the song I'm working on located on my computers hard drive. After I'm done with everything, I store it and all related parts on an external hard drive. If I try to work on the song that has been moved to the external HD, I get latency issues. I have to move it back to my computers HD if I need to work on it again.

Hope that helps.

Ok, it's becoming clear with every post that I have no idea what a sound card is.

I'm already running my usb and xlr cables through my Roland Edirol interface. I downloaded all the drivers on day one, and it works fine, aside from the latency.

I've tried reducing the buffer size, but the sound becomes distorted and unrecognizable once I get near a reasonable latency. As stated above, I tried ASIO4ALL and it only decreased sound quality.

I guess my new questions are:

What is the definition of a sound card?
What have you guys done to decrease latency?

ps - happy birthday to me!

I think we need to move away from "sound card" which is what comes in your 486 PC and use "audio interface" which is I think what we are all actually talking about.

A good way to deal with these kinds of problems is to wipe your computer clean and set it up purely for audio. There are many good websites that help you optimize your computer for audio like:

http://www.jakeludington.com/ask_jake/2 ... video.html
http://www.tim-carter.com/music-product ... uction.php

And just to be sure, you are connecting some kind of keyboard via a MIDI cable to the Edirol box? What kind of keyboard?

yes, Happy Birthday!

Ken

How can you run USB cables through the Edirol interface? It doesn't have any USB ports on it (at least I can't see any on the pictures), just the main USB connection to the PC. As far as I understand it, the UA-25EX is a USB audio interface, i.e. pretty much like any sound card, only that it's connected to the PC via USB.

Don't bother using a generic driver like ASIO4ALL. That's only for sound cards that don't have specialised ASIO drivers. Your interface has its own ASIO driver which you should have installed at some point (AFAICS the standard driver for the Edirol interface includes the ASIO driver). You should tell your DAW to use that ASIO driver.

How much latency are we talking about, anyway? And what's your other hardware? (CPU, RAM size etc.)

Another thing that might help to eliminate things we have to think about is if you could make a simple diagram of how everything (keyboard, Edirol interface, PC) is connected together and via which ports.

That audio interface should do the job just fine.

I notice a switch called "Advanced Driver." If I read the manual aright, you want that set to ON. I trust you've read the manual, but as a technical writer, I thought I'd better mention it. And note that "If you change the setting of this switch, you must close all software, disconnect the USB cable that connects the UA-25EX to your computer, and then reconnect the USB cable."

Also, being a switch, it's capable of mechanical malfunction, so if this thing is old or has been in a dusty environment (like Alberta), you could try squirting some tuner cleaner in there.

What's your sample rate selector switch set to?

PS Happy birthday!

Sorry for the slow reply guys, I've been busy with exams and nur ein.

ken wrote:And just to be sure, you are connecting some kind of keyboard via a MIDI cable to the Edirol box? What kind of keyboard?

It's a Korg X50 - and turns out I'm not actually going through the edirol box - I plugged it straight usb into my computer. My xlr/line in goes through the edirol though, and there's a lot of latency for those too.

AJOwens wrote:I notice a switch called "Advanced Driver." If I read the manual aright, you want that set to ON. I trust you've read the manual, but as a technical writer, I thought I'd better mention it. And note that "If you change the setting of this switch, you must close all software, disconnect the USB cable that connects the UA-25EX to your computer, and then reconnect the USB cable."

No dice, AJ. The switch works fine, it's set to advanced driver - I have the advanced driver installed, and there's no change in latency.

AJOwens wrote:What's your sample rate selector switch set to?

44.1.

Do you have ASIO selected in Reaper?

Preferences > Audio > Device

Audio Device Settings = ASIO
ASIO Driver = [your card driver]

AJOwens wrote:Do you have ASIO selected in Reaper?

I did, but it didn't change the latency so I abandoned it.

For the first setting above, read "Audio System," not "Audio Device Settings." The recommended setting is ASIO (see p.356 in the manual.) Could it have been set another way while you were trying other options?

Do you have a reasonably fast processor and plenty of RAM?

Reist wrote:

AJOwens wrote:Do you have ASIO selected in Reaper?

I did, but it didn't change the latency so I abandoned it.

Well, without ASIO there is pretty much no hope for low latency, so turn it back on and keep it on, and keep experimenting on top of that.