The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Why is it that my collaborator's wav file is not lining up to the other tracks? He played in real time to my tracks, but by the time I get it and add it to my project, it's stretched out longer. It doesn't sound slowed down, just stretched out.

I have no clue other than some kind of bit or sample rate difference or something that I'm unaware of.

This is not the first time this has happened, so any help on the problem and how to fix the wav file would be appreciated.
Thanks

Not sure about stretched out, but I know that .mp3 likes to introduce padding to files at the beginning which would cause files not to line up. We usually pass .flac files back and forth to avoid this. If you're using .wav files then I'm not sure why they don't line up. Perhaps it is different bitrates like you suggest, or perhaps it is caused by different recording software?

dude, check your tempos between the two of you. Cubase will stretch files to fit the same number of bars if the option is turned on. (and it is by default)

I had the same problem once when Paco and I did a Smiths song. It was exactly as you describe it - It doesn't sound slowed down, just stretched out. When I got Paco's guitar track, I assumed he must have been some sort of retard, it seemed all over the place. If I lined it up at the begining, it was all out by the end. I ended up putting cuts in it whenever I could and lining it up little by little. In the end, it all fit perfectly - but it was hard work.

Caravan Ray wrote:When I got Paco's guitar track, I assumed he must have been some sort of retard, it seemed all over the place.

This made me bust up, because that's what I thought.

Yes. I deal with this ALL THE TIME. As far as I can tell, most programs have a bit of preroll they include in the tracks.

The solution we use is to have a 4 count of clicks at the start of the file which you can then line up to the beat. I think this is pretty much how they sync up audio and video in the movies.

The other thing that is helpful is we often send out an additional context track with the part mixed in so you can see how it is suppose to line up.

Ken

ken wrote: The other thing that is helpful is we often send out an additional context track with the part mixed in so you can see how it is suppose to line up.

Ken

This is what saved me.

Billy's Little Trip wrote:

Caravan Ray wrote:When I got Paco's guitar track, I assumed he must have been some sort of retard, it seemed all over the place.

This made me bust up, because that's what I thought.

Uh.....thanks

ken wrote:Yes. I deal with this ALL THE TIME. As far as I can tell, most programs have a bit of preroll they include in the tracks.

The solution we use is to have a 4 count of clicks at the start of the file which you can then line up to the beat. I think this is pretty much how they sync up audio and video in the movies.

The other thing that is helpful is we often send out an additional context track with the part mixed in so you can see how it is suppose to line up.

Ken

No Ken, just lining up the start doesn't fix the problem. The track actually gets stretched out longer when he imports the file into his DAW.

If you just play the .wav file by itself it is the right length.


edit: It seems more likely that it it something like Signboy is describing

ken wrote:Yes. I deal with this ALL THE TIME. As far as I can tell, most programs have a bit of preroll they include in the tracks.

The solution we use is to have a 4 count of clicks at the start of the file which you can then line up to the beat. I think this is pretty much how they sync up audio and video in the movies.

The other thing that is helpful is we often send out an additional context track with the part mixed in so you can see how it is suppose to line up.

Ken

But I think what BLT is describing and what I experienced is not a lining up problem (I usually put clicks at he begining too) - but an actual change in speed/timing/whatever over the length of the track. I think we can assume that Paco is good enough to play in time over a whole song - but his beats seemed slightly off from mine. We would be together at the begining - but not at the end.

It was only a very slight difference, so that over 20 or 30 seconds or so it was unnoticeable and we fit together perfectly - but over the whole 4 minutes or so - it went wonky. I think I cut his track everywhere a chorus or verse stared and slid it sightly into place. The joins would have been unnoticeable because it was only fractions of a second each time.

I don't know what software Paco used, but I don't think he used Garageband like me - there must have been some tiny incompatibility between our 2 systems

Steve Durand wrote:

Billy's Little Trip wrote:

Caravan Ray wrote:When I got Paco's guitar track, I assumed he must have been some sort of retard, it seemed all over the place.

This made me bust up, because that's what I thought.

Uh.....thanks

Lol, I was wondering how long it would take you to find this.

Had I not worked with you many times in the past without a hitch, I would have wondered what the heck you were playing to.

I have sometimes wondered whether 16 v 24 bit affects this.

Not really. Cubase can auto-convert between 16,24 & 32 bit just fine. The only reason I thought of the problem I suggested is that I once accidentally changed tempo, and the midi shit was obviously fine with it, but (gasp) so was the audio! BLT, try selecting the "timestretch tool", it's one of the sub functions of the select tool. Then you can shrink that shit back into place.

signboy wrote:Not really. Cubase can auto-convert between 16,24 & 32 bit just fine. The only reason I thought of the problem I suggested is that I once accidentally changed tempo, and the midi shit was obviously fine with it, but (gasp) so was the audio! BLT, try selecting the "timestretch tool", it's one of the sub functions of the select tool. Then you can shrink that shit back into place.

Thinking of this, I have shrunk or expanded samples to fit a loop using time warp, I tried it. I had the whole song as a loop exactly how I gave it to Steve, so I told it to stretch/shrink to fit the loop. It didn't. Usually it does. But at this point it was 8:30pm and I had to make quick Macgruber decisions.

I'll try some stuff today and report back. I do want to get it right.

Interesting. I am a Cubase SX3 user and do not have this problem. I have not seen Cubase stretch out audio when importing. We (BSS&friends) tend to email mp3s to each other, and when I mix I download them from gmail, import them into Cubase and convert them to 24/48 (which I always record and mix in these days). The only problem I have is the start of the files not starting in the same place as my files. Lining up the clicks at the start puts them into place for me. We (almost) always record to a click so the tracks have to line up, even if it is a crazy time signature shifting tempo track.

I would be curious to hear more about your process to try and see where the problem might be.

Be well,
Ken

I "think" Steve has sent me MP3 files in our past collabs and it's never been an issue. In fact, an MP3 from him saved the day. I just have a sinking feeling it's the sample rate that is causing it, as mentioned.

ken wrote:We (BSS&friends) tend to email mp3s to each other, and when I mix I download them from gmail, import them into Cubase and convert them to 24/48 (which I always record and mix in these days).

Are you REALLY taking mp3's and converting them to 24/48? You guys need to start using FLAC... seriously.