The Song Fight Bulletin Board

I'm bored and might want to spend money. Does Song Fight have advices for me?

Requirements

1. Condenser
   Price ~$200-$500
   Primarily for vocals, maybe acoustic guitar
   Good for soft singing and screaming
   Doesn't 'ess' too much (I don't like how de-essing sounds)
   Doesn't emphasize nasal
   Makes me happy to sing into

For reference, I currently use an AudioTechnica AT2020, mostly because it was the cheapest phantom power mic in the store at the time ($99). It has served me well, but I am time for real equipment.

If I don't want a new microphone, you should tell me that and why.

I use this one for everything:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=270638

I am quite happy with it.

Sure Sm7.

Everyone thinks condenser when they want a nice vocal mic, but you get exactly the things you don't want with most cheap ones. Harsh highs, emphasized Ss... Dynamic mics often do not have these issues.

Let's think about who records with the SM7... Michael Jackson, James Hetfield, Anthony Keidis... This is a classic vocal, acoustic, and drum mic. New it sells for $350. You can get them a little cheaper used, but they are so in demand, even used mics sell for $300 or more!

Ken

Okay, children, today's lesson is on the importance of maintaining a good and blameless personal reputation - and the consequences when we do not.

Here we are walking through a songfight discussion thread on the subject of microphones. (MaryAnne, keep you distance from that SM57. You know where it's been, and you wouldn't put your mouth there, would you?) One participant has asked for suggestions for a new microphone, and has already received one or two good recommendations.

And then this "Caravan Ray" person posts. Note that he does not offer any technical information or even, for that matter, state that he is referring to a microphone - simply that he is going to link us to a particular object he uses and likes. Now in the past, Mr. Ray has - deliberately, some say - let his own personal reputation slip and tarnish in ways which... well, which we cannot even discuss here without permission slips from your parents. In any case, with this "Caravan Ray" person, we have come to expect an unsavory anecdote behind even the most innocent or pseudo-helpful remark.

So let us look at the item this "Caravan Ray" has linked to. It is indeed a microphone, but it is a hard, long, cylindrical black object which makes much of the fact that it is capable of running on batteries. Has Mr. Ray confused this item with some other similarly shaped and powered item he uses and likes? Is he using this item for purposes other than audio recording? The mesh grille would suggest not, but... because of Mr. Ray's much-tarnished personal reputation... we don't know, do we? More importantly, is he offering us truly useful audio wisdom, or is he simply setting it up so that even churchly old King Arthur cannot resist the temptation to pick on him?

This is not to say that there is not a level of technical expertise that can overcome such personal unsavoriness; I remind you, children, of our lesson last week about Fletcher from Mercenary Audio. But I also remind you that few, if any, of you - including the perverse Mr. Ray - will ever attain that level of technical expertise.

Children: protect and preserve your personal reputation, or some day you may wish you had!

king_arthur wrote:Children: protect and preserve your personal reputation, or some day you may wish you had!

With that said and all the rest, here is my tech advice on mics from an earlier post.

Billy's Little Trip wrote:At one point I realized that I was singing into my condenser mic on the wrong side, lol. When the foam is on it, I can't tell........bla bla bla.......I miss the old days when a mic looked like a penis and I knew which end to put my mouth. ...........wait, what...

I like mine shiny!

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=271575

Mostly because I don't have a strong voice, like Michael Jackson, and other people with a strong voice. It is very nice on the softer stuff, but pretty good otherwise, too. Great on guitar. I also like singing/playing about a foot or two from the mic, unless I'm REALLY soft and cuddly. If Ray were to practice safe mic'ing, he'd do it that way too.

What Ken said.

I always used a couple different $100-200 condensers until a year and a half ago when, for the first time in a long time, I needed to provide my own mic for a gig. I bought a Sennheiser e838, then of course tried it for recording since you never know - and really liked it. All the Milo Dunderville vocals from last year's Nur Ein came through that mic.

Wow, this thread has turned into a comedy goldmine.

I am tempted by this Sm7. I wonder if I should hook up my gigging mic and give it a go, as well.

I am slightly disappointed at the consensus against cardioid mics, and that a clear winrar has not emerged in that category. If I had infinite moneys I would probably get the Blue Mouse. I don't make money from music so I really can't justify that.

I have a headset mic that I got for playing WOW and being able to talk in raids, and last summer bought a 20 dollar stick mike, a dynex. I am NOT rich. I would like a better mike though, so if you are going to get rid of yor old one and want to sell it for a reasonable price...I might be interested in it. It would probably make me sound better than the stick or headset anyway...

king_arthur wrote:
So let us look at the item this "Caravan Ray" has linked to. It is indeed a microphone, but it is a hard, long, cylindrical black object which makes much of the fact that it is capable of running on batteries. Has Mr. Ray confused this item with some other similarly shaped and powered item he uses and likes? Is he using this item for purposes other than audio recording? The mesh grille would suggest not, but... because of Mr. Ray's much-tarnished personal reputation... we don't know, do we?

When I wrote:

Caravan Ray wrote:I use this one for everything:

I meant everything.

It is always worth trying out the mics you have before buying something new.

I'm just starting to get a little burnt on the cheap condenser mics.

Having said that, I really like the CAD M179, which you can get for $150 from Zen Pro Audio.

Ken

Two small diaphragm condensers I use frequently are the AKG C1000S and the Shure SM81. I haven't used them much for vocal recording but they're both very good for instruments and spaces. My favorite vocal mic is the Rode NTV, a tube mic which may be out of your budget. I bought mine for around $500 but that was years ago--maybe they're cheaper now. The little sister of this mic, the Rode NT1 is an inexpensive large-diaphragm condenser which I thought was fine until I bought the NTV. it has some of the tendencies Ken described but I think it (and similar Rode mics) would probably satisfy you.

Caravan Ray wrote:I meant everything.

Not sure what KA thought, but I personally imagined EVERYf**kingTHING!

...don't ask.

Just my 2 bits:
I upgraded my mic several years ago, and it was one of the biggest jumps in recording quality I've ever made. New gear will not make you better, but it will make you SOUND better. Several times, when recording musicians heard my music, they have asked what mic I'm using. Granted, they said it with a grimace, because they wished they couldn't hear my voice so well, but that says nothing against the mic. This baby is pretty reasonably priced, and it could bring Rone right out of a mix and put him up against your ear.

Bluebird

By the way. I'm big on the old sm57 and sm58 dynamic mics. They are great gigging mics, but lacking for studio work. I finally decided on a condenser mic for recording and went off of the recommendations of a couple members here and got the Studio Projects B1.

I like it. Very crisp and a 3 position low roll off switch to fit all vocal types. Plus a 10db and 20db drop down switch for screaming out your vox or for whispering as clear as a bell (a glass bell). I like that feature the most. It's hard to get a good sound whispering into an sm58.

I did find that when I bought a cheapish studio mic (Oktava MK 219, seen them for as little as $99 new), it did still feel very cool to be singing into a "studio vocal mic," even a cheap one. So for those on a very limited budget, even a cheap condenser mic could give you a confidence / coolness benefit.

Turned out the r/r deck I was using at the time didn't have phantom power, so I was out an extra $30 or $40 for a Rolls box to power the mic, but it was still worth it.

Charles (KA)

Case closed.

I went to Guitar Center to try out some mic's. This turned out to be a bigger pain than expected, since they aren't set-up for that and a guy was testing out studio monitors.

I tried the Sm7b, my existing condenser mic (AT2020), and a condenser mic they had that was about the same price (Sterling ST59).

The AT2020, I noticed, was very harsh with sibilants compared to the other two, so I knew anything would be an improvement. The Shure was smooth and silky, whereas the other condenser came through very clear with enunciation and such.

Ultimately, I chose the Shure for a few reasons.
1. If I want to boost the enunciation, I can do that with EQ, but that will be the rare case compared to the opposite I have to do with a condenser mic. (Essssss esssss ess)
2. It seemed to have less of a level difference between quiet and loud singing. Granted, this might just have been the set-up, but I found that very appealing so that I don't have to screw with levels within the same track so much.
3. Built-in windscreen is very appealing.
4. With so many good records behind it, I knew it wouldn't be a mistake. I could have tried out 100 mics, but testing out the industry standard and liking it seemed like a better approach.

$350 - $30 easter coupon + tax = ~$330. Not bad.

So thanks for all the input; I looked up all the mics mentioned here. Thanks especially to Ken.

Good choice. I am also heading to GC today to take advantage of the $30-199 coupon.

Congrats!

Ken

Yep, good choice. My bass player has that mic in his studio and I've used it many-a-time and it really is smooth at all levels.

Hey Ken, do you use it with the presence boost on or off? I presume I could just add an EQ afterward and it would achieve the same thing, but I'm curious what your feelings are. I've already vetoed the bass roll-off.

Hey,

I just picked up a Shure SM7 last night. Exciting!

I tried it out quickly recording some vocals on a track and it sounds good. I tried all the different switches on the back. I think my preference when only tracking vocals will be to use it flat and then EQ later. If I was tracking vocals with other stuff going on, I would use the low cut, and if I would try the mid boost if I thought it would help the vocalist in some way.

I'll let you know if I use this mic on any songfight songs in the near future.

Ken

I've been struggling a little to get the sound I want out of it, but I think I have the general idea now. I recommend a windscreen because I was getting a lot of plosives I had to manually take out - the built-in windscreen just won't catch them. That is, if you don't use the bass roll-off switch. Personally, I like the deep bassy voice coming through.

My Nur Ein round 2 song will be using it.