The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Yesterday, Ani Difranco's new album arrived in my mailbox. It's a gem; I'm actually glad it took her three years to craft and hone this one, compared the usual 10 - 12 month interval between her previous 20-odd albums. It's chock-full not only of great songs with interesting melodies hooks and tones, but it's a really well produced and innovative series of songs. I'm seriously considering studying it very closely for some new ideas about structure, arrangement and orchestration / instrumentation.

So, that brings me to the Question of the Day: Do you have a touchstone that you reference for production, either a specific album or a particular producer?

For a long time, I've taken hints from Trent Reznor; actually one of the best compliments I received was when JB noticed that there was a NIN/Reznor influence on my production. But the work by Ani's partner and producer Mike Napolitano has been increasingly grabbing my attention.

I've been streaming Ani's new album and love it. Her usual way of fucking with your head while sounding all poppy has achieved a new high.

And I loved her production on Dan Bern's albums.

I don't like to pattern my fine-grained production against other artists' stuff (which is probably why I suck) but for general mix stuff (levels and EQ) I tend to look to Radiohead.

Well, when I take the time to do X-Y comparisons and try to make my mixes "sound like" a specific track, it has been Jackson Browne's "I'm Alive." Another sign of impending senility, I suppose. In terms of specifically production, probably Prince. Vocals, Roger Daltrey sets the standards, even though I don't sound nearly enough like him.

Back when I was taking audio production courses, I made myself a reference CD with about seventy 30-second samples of various things I thought sounded good - good drums, guitars, bass, vocals, mixes, etc. There were also a few examples of stuff like... a Smokey Robinson and the Miracles track just to hear what those songs sounded like, even though they weren't "great" recordings in the high-fidelity sense.

Unfortunately, I don't pull out the reference mixes as often as I should, which is why, when it's time to pull together an hour or so of King Arthur songs and call it an "album," one of the problems is that the songs don't sound like each other... one has too much bass, another has not enough... for my current collection, I'm giving all the tracks to a friend who is really into mixing and turning him loose on making it sound like a coherent whole.

Charles (KA)

QotD: I've been told that I should listen and pay attention to the mixing and production of certain albums. I never have sat down and tried to mimic an album. But I do follow a lot of Steve Albini's techniques because I love his raw, yet solid style. He can make a CD have the live energy of being there, but can make a dynamically solid mix that's perfect for a quiet listening environment. I make mental notes when I'm listening to music if I hear something that grabs my attention. I've analyzed production even way back when I was young and just playing my guitar on the edge of my bed. I enjoy that end of making music as much as playing it.

When I mix, I do things that appeal to my ears and things I like to hear in a song that makes it fit the mood of the song. My technique can be drastically different from song to song. So really I guess I'm channeling decades of music I've listened to and loved.

By the way, you guys have me curious about Ani Difranco's new album. I'm not a fan, although she is very good. But I want to hear this amazing engineering you're talking about. Can you link or give me a song in particular to listen to?

Not so much for the mixing and production, but in terms of structure and arrangement, I've been really picking apart British Sea Power lately, especially their latest album (Valhalla Dancehall). They have two guitarists, but there is no distinct rhythm track or distinct lead track - both tracks just seamlessly wrap around each other. They also like to add mini-bridges and shortened (or extended) choruses to avoid the monotony of a straight-up VCVCBVC-type structure.

I haven't actually incorporated anything I've learned into my music yet (and I may never have the talent to pull it off if I tried), but it is a fascinating study.

inevitableguy wrote:Not so much for the mixing and production, but in terms of structure and arrangement, I've been really picking apart British Sea Power lately, especially their latest album (Valhalla Dancehall). They have two guitarists, but there is no distinct rhythm track or distinct lead track - both tracks just seamlessly wrap around each other. They also like to add mini-bridges and shortened (or extended) choruses to avoid the monotony of a straight-up VCVCBVC-type structure.

I haven't actually incorporated anything I've learned into my music yet (and I may never have the talent to pull it off if I tried), but it is a fascinating study.

You got me curious. So I listened to "who's in control" (warning, nudity). A lot of reverb on the guitars. Panned out left and right wide and nice. The drums are panned out nice too with a strong tight room reverb the way I like. (Albini style). Left and right crashes are panned hard. The floor tom was strong in my right ear. Yeah, nice mixing for sure. But I think the mastering on this one is where the magic happened.
...funny, the break down vocal sounded like Caravan Ray. lol

I just listened to Stevie Wonder's Innervisions for the first time in years... Unless you do techno dance shit, you should aim this high. O.M.G.

Billy's Little Trip wrote: You got me curious. So I listened to "who's in control" (warning, nudity). A lot of reverb on the guitars. Panned out left and right wide and nice. The drums are panned out nice too with a strong tight room reverb the way I like. (Albini style). Left and right crashes are panned hard. The floor tom was strong in my right ear. Yeah, nice mixing for sure. But I think the mastering on this one is where the magic happened.
...funny, the break down vocal sounded like Caravan Ray. lol

As much as I've been thinking about the arrangements on that record, I never really paid much attention to the mix. I'll have to take note next time...

Billy's Little Trip wrote:By the way, you guys have me curious about Ani Difranco's new album. I'm not a fan, although she is very good. But I want to hear this amazing engineering you're talking about. Can you link or give me a song in particular to listen to?

Ani does a really good job of placing her stuff online, though she takes some logical precautions. There are 30-second clips for just about each tune on ?Which Side Are You On? here :

http://www.righteousbabe.com/ani/whichs ... /songs.asp

and you can peruse highlights of her entire catalog here:

http://store.righteousbabe.com/departme ... ils/albums

"Living in Clip" is still my fave, but "Dilate" and "Educated Guess" have a special place for me.

*sigh* There's actually a great part of her official site that houses full songs, but http://www.righteousbabe.com/ani/ seems to be down at the moment.

Thanks Noah. I already youtubed her. But I did go to your links and listened to the song you mentioned.
Very clean studio work. Reminiscent of Edie Brickell.

looks like the new album is on spotify, so i made a playlist to listen soon. i like ani. also, she's from the same place as me, buffalo.
-bill

HeuristicsInc wrote:looks like the new album is on spotify, so i made a playlist to listen soon. i like ani. also, she's from the same place as me, buffalo.
-bill

The wing place.