The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Welcome fightmates. `Tis time t' listen t' a new set o' songs an' review if ye can. Either way, we`ll be havin' fun fun fun 'til yer daddy takes th' T-bird away hey hey....

.....and a bottle o' rum.

just when I thought I couldn't get any more lame

Wages----Please loan me a few Ladder bars.
Klown hoe----I all most liked this, good job.
John, Ken and Sum---- Loved those lyrics, not my usuall style , but could enjoy at a bar, that is if a bunch of hoes were buying me beer
Sep.---- I liked this till you lost it.
Stink i'm gonna review you and Billy like yall have last couple of weeks.
Pork--- you are wierd dude, visit NC, we are too.

hillbilly wrote:Wages----Please loan me a few Ladder bars.

what....does...it....mean?

Wages wrote:

hillbilly wrote:Wages----Please loan me a few Ladder bars.

what....does...it....mean?

Ladder bars are where handymen go to drink among rungs. He wants you to loan him a few of those establishments.


.....why must I always explain everything to the hipsters?

BatP - That intro....I've nearly disowned band members for less, youz gon have to werk damned hard to get back in my good books.

Lol. Oh no.

When Dee reads this, I'm sure she'll let out an audible chuckle. I know I did.

boldface means vote.

Berkeley Social Scene
Pretty cool. I wish you had made more fun from the time sig changes. It smells a little of just goofing off, perhaps a tighter production would solve that, not sure. Not sure just repeating the chorus over at the end gets you anything, but hey, you had like a week. Nice one. Just misses out on a vote, unfortunately.

Billy and the Psychotics
Well, I was certainly expecting a more hook-laden entry here, and you didn’t disappoint. I remember you said that your entries should all be considered demos, and this one sounds like one, but still works. Definitely have rememberable hooks here, and it sounds a lot more “song”-like. Good job. I would try this at a significantly faster tempo as it plods a bit, and I’d add a contrasting bridge in there somewhere as I’m not sure the verse and chorus alone are enough to carry the day by themselves. In the verse, when you get in your lower register, I lose sight of what notes you’re supposed to be singing, so the tune kind of falls of a cliff there. But nice work. If I may I add to your collection of singers you sound like: Cindy Lauper. Probably already heard that.

The Chocolate Chips
Nice demo. Spend a month working on this and it will be so cool. You probably know it’s too short, needs a way funkier groove and more detailed production. Hard to diss it because it’s cool, hard to fully embrace either because it’s so obviously not done.

Glennny
Lots of cool here. Someone else needs to cover this, because your vocals are really not up to the song. Lots of catchy stuff going on which I like. I’m not paying attention to the lyrics, because the music itself held my interest. So if they mean anything, I have no comment. Interesting how much detail you have gone to in the arrangement, and yet you don’t seem to have put any work into the vocals, which completely undermines all the other good work.

Hoglen and Wages
This one is tough to get through. I think you’re going for a kind of Fleet Foxes thing. This could work, even at this tempo, but I think the arrangement feels like someone dragging a heavy suitcase across the floor. Get rid of that excruciating chunk-a chunk-a groove and make the arrangement more floaty. Also, the vocals need to be a lot crisper. And in tune. This will work if the goal is to put us into a mellow trance, ala Hope Sandoval or America. But this doesn’t do that.

James Owens
The MTM Show ending is really odd. It made me go back and listen again to find out if I’d missed that reference all the way through, but I didn’t hear anything. Anyway, this is a lot like what I used to sound like, I think. And you have almost my same name, so it freaks me out no small amount. So I felt like I was listening to myself from 10 years ago. And I wasn’t crazy about it. Trouble is that it’s SO mired in the style that it isn’t saying anything new. One thing to reference a past musical style, but if you aren’t saying anything new about it, then why are you doing it? The newness can either be musical or wordical, but I’m not hearing either. I know how hard this style is to pull off though, and I appreciate the effort. I would also strip it down to just a trio, because your cheap sounding brass patches aren’t doing you any favors. And the vocal style is this kind of affected Rudy Vallee thing, which further distances me from the song. The very opening line “You think there must be some misunderstanding” put me off because it wasn’t the best effort at hitting all the notes. So my reaction right out of the gate was of bad vocals. Hearing the rest of the song, I know you could have sung that opening line better. Why didn’t you? First impressions and all… Lyrically, I don’t know what you’re talking about, and spend a long time trying to figure it out, like I stepped half an hour late into a musical. You seem awfully proud of all the big words you can squeeze in there. But what you’re going on about I have no idea.

John and Ken and Sam
The percussion groove you set up at the beginning gets you a long way. As long as the vocals held up, I knew we’d probably be ok. And they do, yay. And the lyric imagery is top drawer. All good stuff. You might just two-peat here. The little solo after the first verse is disappointingly low energy and frankly lame. And you went back to it again after the bridge. This is cool enough that I wanted it to take me a bit higher. Might try going straight to the F chord and cutting the lame break that second time.

Klownhole
Not to my taste, so hard to review. I always kind of dig that before-the-voice echo technique. I can’t say how good or not this is, because I just find it annoying to listen to. So ignore this review.

Paco del Stinko
This is great. Cool chord changes, smooth arrangement, and the vocals are decent. Is this about zombies? My favorite so far.

Public Porking
Yay. OK, now THIS is my favorite. Probably won’t get the win because it’s weird, but it’s a great testament to the fact that you can make something complete and satisfying while still being lo-fi and silly. So even though this has that common we-don’t-care-very-much SongFight vibe, it works great. How come? I think maybe because underneath the lo-fi kookiness there’s real effort showing through. The lyrics are consistently interesting, and the vocal style is appropriate to the style, and the lo-fi-ness sounds on purpose rather than due to laziness. The detail paid to panning and how the sounds shut on and off abruptly show a commitment to an initial vision. And the I-IV7 chord progression and rhythmic hooks fall solidly into the catchy pop idiom. For some reason I’m reminded of Blister in the Sun, though precisely why escapes me totally. I’m also reminded of an obscure but really wonderful band from the 80’s called Renaldo and the Loaf, who this song sounds like a carbon copy of. Really great job.

Sep
Spend more effort getting your vocal performance right. It matters because otherwise it’s hard for me to listen to the songwriting etc. Nice harmonica. Fun to hear a jew’s harp, but cornballs up the whole song a bit, don’t know if you need it. The vocals are a big problem here. I don’t think it’s a case where you can’t ever get there. You just need to spend more effort on it. If you have the technology available, recording the vocals as a separate track would allow you to comp and do lots of takes until you were happy with it.

WreckdoM
I think the biggest problem for me with this one is it’s kind of boring. I like the basic sonic approach and the details are all appropriate and well-recorded, and everything kind of hangs together, but I think the images your lyrics are painting aren’t clear enough to make the music enhance it in a specific way. Either that or the music isn’t evocative enough to enhance the lyrics. Or some of both. Anyway, something seems missing, but what’s here is fine.

Billy's Little Trip wrote:

Wages wrote:

hillbilly wrote:Wages----Please loan me a few Ladder bars.

what....does...it....mean?

Ladder bars are where handymen go to drink among rungs. He wants you to loan him a few of those establishments.
.....why must I always explain everything to the hipsters?

Hmmm, still just as confused! I even Googled it. I'm confused more by how to loan establishments! lol

GREEN FACES FOR VOTES. ... listed kind of in order of preference ...

Public Porking

+ this is cool. I like the lyrics.
+ I really like the whacky rhythms/sounds/production.
+ could use a bit of a musical hook in there somewhere (other than the cut-up rhythms/sounds), but I still enjoyed it.

John and Ken and Sam

+ vaguely reminds me of 1980s era Paul Simon.
+ nice percussion.
+ quirky fun pop song. I like it.

Billy and the Psychotics

+ good vocals.
+ not crazy about the intro.
+ I like the song; good chorus. pretty catchy.

James Owens

+ I enjoy the sound of this... despite, or maybe because of the obviously synthesized sound of some the backing.
+ There's some really catchy bits in this song that I appreciate quite a bit.
+ Nice vocals for the style.

Paco del Stinko

+ great musicianship & production as usual.
+ I particularly like the intro/break.
+ The vocals don't really do it for me.

glenny

+ I like the beat. Nice groove.
+ I dig the music in general. Cool synth.
+ not big on the vocals during the chorus (I like them more during the verses)

WreckdoM

+ pretty interesting lyrics. they keep me listening.
+ I like the vocal effect that sounds like a crazy baby.
+ cool production.

Berkely Social Scene

+ production sounds more lofi than usual.
+ the chorus has some charm to it (I like the backing vocals bit.)
+ guitar solo seems totally out of place, but it kind of cool because of that.

Klownhole

+ insane.
+ sounds like at least two different songs playing at the same time. maybe three.
+ cool effect on the vocal.
+ occasionally there's a weird popping noise that sounds like a mistake, but with this kind of production it's hard to know for sure... if it's on purpose it's probably a step too far. I get the whole insane production thing... but usually these kind of over-driven/broken production things that might sound cool in analog usually end up sounding just annoying in the digital world.
+ it's a pretty cool absolutely nutty sonic world you've created but the song didn't make as much of an impression on me. I think even when you're doing this sort of thing you have to pick a few elements that are going to stand out and pull the listener in. I know it sounds like a contradiction but I really think even when you are doing the whole "over stimulation" thing, less can be more.... or at least there has to be something to focus on at some level (at some point... maybe that focus can be blurred at some point during the song.)
+ do you like Butthole Surfers as much as I'm assuming you do?

Hogles & Wages

+ Reminds me a little bit of Lone Pigeon and I'm a fan of his.
+ I can dig music in this style but this doesn't really pull me in.
+ Lofi production is a distraction.

Sep

+ Some cool ideas/sounds.
+ Vocals could be louder.
+ Melody lacks interest.

Jim of Seattle wrote: James Owens
The MTM Show ending is really odd. It made me go back and listen again to find out if I’d missed that reference all the way through, but I didn’t hear anything. Anyway, this is a lot like what I used to sound like, I think. And you have almost my same name, so it freaks me out no small amount. So I felt like I was listening to myself from 10 years ago. And I wasn’t crazy about it. Trouble is that it’s SO mired in the style that it isn’t saying anything new. One thing to reference a past musical style, but if you aren’t saying anything new about it, then why are you doing it? The newness can either be musical or wordical, but I’m not hearing either. I know how hard this style is to pull off though, and I appreciate the effort. I would also strip it down to just a trio, because your cheap sounding brass patches aren’t doing you any favors. And the vocal style is this kind of affected Rudy Vallee thing, which further distances me from the song. The very opening line “You think there must be some misunderstanding” put me off because it wasn’t the best effort at hitting all the notes. So my reaction right out of the gate was of bad vocals. Hearing the rest of the song, I know you could have sung that opening line better. Why didn’t you? First impressions and all… Lyrically, I don’t know what you’re talking about, and spend a long time trying to figure it out, like I stepped half an hour late into a musical. You seem awfully proud of all the big words you can squeeze in there. But what you’re going on about I have no idea.

Thanks for the extensive review. The song is about whether there really are "binders full of women." That should clear up the lyrics (which are posted), and also the MTM callout.

This is a very unusual song for me, because I wrote the words without any idea what the music would be. I almost never do that. Musically, I tried a couple of things, but I went back to the slapstick vaudeville comedic thing because it just worked well with the lyrics. If I'd had time for a proper arrangement I would have tried to mire it well and truly in that style, the way I've heard Steve Durand do it. As it happens, the musical lines of the cheap brass are just wandering around. I almost kidded myself that I was putting my unique stamp on the style by adding such an off-the-wall, latter-day treatment for the brass; but no, I just didn't get the arrangement done. Mind you, that's only the A part. The B part has nothing to do with the vaudeville thing -- where have you heard that riff in a Noel Coward song? I thought it was more or less in the space called "groovy," but a friend surprised me by describing as "stripper music" (and I could see that, with a raunchy horn or two). Then there's the third phase where it goes briefly into TV themeland. I think the seamless merge of these three parts rescues it from the vaudeville mire.

Sorry about singing the first line badly, but you must admit, it's not the only one. Welcome to my singing.

Since we practically have the same name and all, and (as I understand) you're bored at work, you should check out my other stuff to see whether it also sounds like you ten years ago. I'd be interested to hear!

Jim of Seattle wrote:

Berkeley Social Scene
Pretty cool. I wish you had made more fun from the time sig changes. It smells a little of just goofing off, perhaps a tighter production would solve that, not sure. Not sure just repeating the chorus over at the end gets you anything, but hey, you had like a week. Nice one. Just misses out on a vote, unfortunately.

You're right about the double chorus at the end. We actually lost a couple of tracks. (forgot to save). There was an outgoing guitar solo over the repeat to give a lift from the 1st of the final choruses. I think Martin did a fine job mixing, but we certainly miss Ken production on this one. There actually are no time changes. you can count 5/4 for the whole thing. We switch up the stresses, but it's all 5/4.

Glennny
Lots of cool here. Someone else needs to cover this, because your vocals are really not up to the song. Lots of catchy stuff going on which I like. I’m not paying attention to the lyrics, because the music itself held my interest. So if they mean anything, I have no comment. Interesting how much detail you have gone to in the arrangement, and yet you don’t seem to have put any work into the vocals, which completely undermines all the other good work.

The lyrics aren't as good as the story, at least I think so. They really are pressing charges. It's about a creepy guy oblivious to sexual harassment in the work place. The 2 women he hits on team up and press charges. Yeah someone should cover it! Someone else should sing. This is why I prefer to collaborate. I'm not a good singer. I do find it very fun however. I do like my phrasing and melodies. I just hate the timbre and lack of control. Where you're wrong is where I spend my time. The music and arrangement comes quickly. Then I spend way too long on the vocal melodies. Recording is even worse, all the instruments are 1 or 2 takes, and to get the vocals even to the level they are at is 12 or 15 takes. Anyway, thanks for the reviews!

AJOwens wrote: Since we practically have the same name and all, and (as I understand) you're bored at work, you should check out my other stuff to see whether it also sounds like you ten years ago. I'd be interested to hear!

Are you volunteering to be subjected to orthogonal reviews?
http://songfight.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8735

Jim of Seattle wrote: Are you volunteering to be subjected to orthogonal reviews?
http://songfight.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8735

I saw that thread, but Billy and the Psychotics won the contest (couldn't have happened to a better group).

If you're volunteering to write orthogonal reviews for my Song Fight opus, I'd be delighted. Actually I'd have mixed feelings, because others with more serious career intentions could probably make better use of them. But from a purely selfish point of view, I'd be delighted.

Really I was just hoping you'd take a listen to some other entries of mine, in case you've mistaken the current entry for "my style." I have a style, but it's hard to describe.

Well, you missed the part where I said "Now that I'm done with BatP, who wants to be next?"

Career aspirations do not equal musical aspirations. I certainly have no career aspirations with music, but spending the entire last 10 months working on a single album might demonstrate I have very serious musical aspirations. Just cuz you don't want to buy your paper towels with music money doesn't mean you don't want the music to be as good as you can make it. Anyway, since when was SongFight about anyone's career aspirations?

OK, I have another project, hooray.

Jim of Seattle wrote:OK, I have another project, hooray.

(I moved my response to the Sidefights and Highlights > Orthogonal reviews thread.)

Berkeley Social Scene This sounds demented. I mean that in a good way. The eccentric time signature, the syncopations and dissonances, the weirdly childlike chorus -- it all meshes. The arrangement at the solo is maybe a little too thin; it almost loses the momentum. The ending leaves the piano naked, as if it forgot to stop when everything else did. This is quite a different sound than the last time I listened to BSS -- richer, with the whole somehow greater than the parts.

Billy and the Psychotics The overall sound is packed a little too tightly into my headphones. The intro was entertaining, but gratuitous. The vocals are delicious. Nice arpeggiation from the rhythm guitar. Good musicianship all around, in a fact. At the end of the verse, the move from G to B major and then back to G is unsatisfying; stepping down from the tonic and pushing the fifth sharp and then just giving up is bound to be anticlimactic. The second time and thereafter, the bass is working on this, which helps a bit, but not enough; as it's repeated verse after verse, this point in the song begins to wear me out. Something similar happens in the chorus, which only compounds the problem. This frequent hasty retreat to the home chord puts a limiter on the song. The little jump up to the A at the end of the chorus seems to want contrary motion. Damn close to a hook, but for those two things. Good use of vocal harmony. Clean, convincing ending.

The Chocolate Chips Sweet. Simple and charming, nice texture. The vocal sound goes well. Playful lyrics, what I can make out of them (lyrics usually just sail by me). Lots of promise; too short, you were just getting started.

glennny Intriguing sound. The vocals have character, but your lower register is much stronger. This goes through a lot of sonic phases without really hearkening back, except arbitrarily at the end. I like all of them, but I long for a more unified effect. The lyrics are clever at times, but the story takes a little long to tell, and things happen with a weird suddenness. You'd think the guy would get a hint before they tell him to "lawyer up." If hints zoom right by him, then the irony could be fun.

Hoglen & Wages This runs a little long, the harmonies are disorganized, and the production is muddy. I don't think you're going for production, though; it sounds like you have a low-budget operation. Still, the performing and arranging could be tightened up. Overall the song has a natural drama and a good feeling to it, at least until you start jamming out at the end. The lyrics seem cryptic to me, but then, I'm not one to talk.

James Owens This is my entry, and I've already talked about it at length.

John and Ken and Sam World beat meets electro-pop and some other things, resulting in a great sound. Fine vocals. The break at 2:17 is weaker than the verses, at least in part because at the beginning the vocals don't soar the same way. Compositionally fairly simple, but very effective. I like it.

Klownhole No pirates in this fight yet, but close. Powerhouse drumming, trippy keyboards, monster bass and guitar unison, hallucinatory singing, serious backward reverb. This feels like an acid rock Hallowe'en concert I once attended in an Armouries hall. If you're going for that effect, it's awesome!

Paco del Stinko Tight and weirdly dissonant. Some good lines -- "'Cause they wouldn't mind" has a nice understated menace -- but the lyrics have a thrown-together feel, sort of "first-thing-that-scans." Mind you, your rate of output is a good enough reason for that. High energy, great playing on all instruments, resourceful arrangement (if more straightforward than some of your other entries), solid production. The vocal line "They really are" toward the end is ingeniously anxious.

Public Porking This is fun. A highly original sound, harsh and alien on the face of it, yet approachable because of its schoolyard-doggerel playfulness. The reckless pairings, mysteriously significant at first, seem to get weaker toward the end, either because they mean too much, or not enough; and the occasional switch to "They really do" feels disruptive. But the overall concept and treatment is well done.

Sep Is there an alarm clock in there? Nice laid-back acoustic mood, thanks especially to the harmonica. The singing works most of the time, but not at about 1:34 when it starts to sound uncertain. The backing vocal, for this singing style and tonality, is too close in pitch and tone to the main voice. Also, it sounds half-hearted; if you're going to sing backup, commit! The rambling, free-verse quality of the lyrics suits the song.

WreckdoM This would make a good horror soundtrack -- heavy and thick, like trying to run in a dream. Suitably paranoid lyrics. Dunno about the chipmunk; kind of works, kind of not. But you definitely achieve an effect here.

chocolatechips wrote:GREEN FACES FOR VOTES. ... listed kind of in order of preference ...
+ occasionally there's a weird popping noise that sounds like a mistake, but with this kind of production it's hard to know for sure... if it's on purpose it's probably a step too far. I get the whole insane production thing... but usually these kind of over-driven/broken production things that might sound cool in analog usually end up sounding just annoying in the digital world.

+ do you like Butthole Surfers as much as I'm assuming you do?

+ About that popping. That is a known bug that we couldn't fix. Or, not enough sobriety to focus on. The vocal track was strangely hot at certain points. Which is strange because Bryan is insanely loud like no one that has ever existed since the Norse gods fucked their way across the land of mortals. But the pops were at parts that weren't particularly loud. So. There. It's rock and roll. Pure and drunk and simple.

+ And, no. Just sloppy.

them ladder bars going $3 here, make me sound like Wages, trying to quit. kidding maybe.

Billy Wad--- Don't take me wrong (don;t want to blow you or nuthing)but with such good bass playing, can hardly hear it. I think your recordings should be bass heavy. just my pinion.

Wreckdom------ I took a hit and jacked off three times at my my neighbors. I act. listened.

Alright. I missed the last two fights, review-wise, but feel that my credit is still good around here. Actually, I wonder if anyone has written more reviews than me. Hmm. I just opened my second beer, a brew called Old Thumper from Maine. 5.6% and easy going. Nice. Anyway, I thought that this fight was good all around: variety, hooks,good length, experimentation, Klownhole, WreckdoM and JB vocals. Pfft. What else is there? Plenty. But that's a good start!

Berkeley Social Scene I like the shifts that this takes from dark angular riff to near sideshow music. All Martin and Glenn this week? The Madcap laughs, indeed. Crazy lead over wimpy backing makes the pre and chorus sound so psychedelically flowered when it returns. I dare say that this is one, if not my top, BSS song. My!


Billy and the Psychotics Oh, that kooky intro. Snappy drums and rubbery bass with nicely interwoven guitar work to support one of D's better vocal lines in a while. I think the chorus is catchy and passionate and especially dig the last time around into the end. Headphones offer subtleties I didn't hear on the stereo the first times I listened. Should fare well but the JB/Lunk/Ken collabo will be tough to beat. I like this a lot.


The Chocolate Chips I like autotune used this way, I suppose. It sounds mostly like a real voice. Sorry, gotta mention it. The song is open and easy, I like the spacious layers and key work, supporting a simple but effective and catchy melody.


glennny I thought this was Ross Durand with a hangover at the start. All over the place and hitting bullseyes in between outer rimmers. The talking guitar, or whatever that is, is way cool and I dig the Steely Dan lead very much, complete with trademark Glennybends. Sounds more like you around the 3 min. mark, but neat to hear the evolution of this mini epic. Great detail, musical smarts and adventure.

Hoglen & Wages Parts of this are very effective, others not so much. I like the trippy double vocals that come and go. The section when the electric guitar comes in is on the right path, if a bit sloppy. The lead could've been worked out a bit more as it wants to be simple and lonesome, but wanders too much. Refocus, whittle it down and end with a somber, longing tone.


James Owens A lot happens in the short time, I couldn't believe the time readout when I first looked. Part Beatles music hall tune, part TV show theme, I wish I were smart enough to get the message. That said, the music is fantastic and superbly arranged. The melodies flow and blend wonderfully. Great stuff, should (better!) fair well in the voting.

John and Ken and Sam I love the way that this percolates. Not that bullshit pussy ass 'k-cup' shit, but good, old fashioned, Farberware glass topped coffee machine perk. When this played the third or fourth time, I was in the other room and wondered what chick was singing. Whoa! The vocal production is better than last week. LOVE the Graceland style bass line, who can lay claim to writing that beaut? Great tune, should win. I love this tune and hate when it ends.


Klownhole Along with JB(!) this is one of my favorite voices on SF! when singing. Glad to hear melody instead of reading a catolog or whatever. The keys push this sack kicker over the top. Fuck the slop, this rocks and that's what matters. Fantasy: I am visiting the Northwest and am invited to play rhythm guitar or bass at a K-Hole jam.


Paco del Stinko Heh. First time listening on headphones, I still hear where a chicka-chicka should go. This is about the administrator and personel director at the hospital where I work. Boot licking suck wads.


Public Porking One of my favorite new artists here at SF! Sloppy and demo-ish, this, and your other tunes, show the promise of what they could evolve into. Fun word play over what should be an annoying loop, a bright spirit of adventure and carefree adventurism prevails. Keep'em coming, Spanky.


Sep Loose vocals are saved by the easy going and first time around feel of the supporting tracks. The jaw harp sounds good but makes my teeth hurt. I like the overall vibe of this despite it's lack of focus.

WreckdoM This song is great. Huge and haunting, the music is focused and manacing without being overly cluttered as you guys can lean towards. Perfect setup for the great paranoia of the lyrics. Patient and evil. Is that bass or a baritone guitar? You guys beat me with your Theremin work, don't challenge me with the Bari, too. One of your best, it shows maturity(!) while retaining the demented greatness that is WreckdoM.

Paco Del Stinko wrote:John and Ken and Sam I love the way that this percolates. Not that bullshit pussy ass 'k-cup' shit, but good, old fashioned, Farberware glass topped coffee machine perk. When this played the third or fourth time, I was in the other room and wondered what chick was singing. Whoa! The vocal production is better than last week. LOVE the Graceland style bass line, who can lay claim to writing that beaut? Great tune, should win. I love this tune and hate when it ends.

That is Sam on the bass this week. It is one of my favorite parts of the song as well.