The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Happy Something on a Stick day.

Yep, that's a thing.

QotD: Who is your favorite fictional villain?

Yesterday, website io9 got to the semi-finals of their science fiction tv March Madness tournament. The big match up was Doctor Who vs. Star Trek: the Next Generation. My immediate reaction was Star Trek: TNG. My reasoning- TNG has the better villains. And that got me thinking about how important a good villain can be in a work of fiction sometimes. So, I ask the forums today- who are some of your favorite fictional villains and why?

God. He's awesome in both regards.

Although corn dogs are one of my fav things on a stick, when I go to the fair, I ALWAYS get at least one chicken egg roll on a stick. They are the size of a hot pocket, then they dip them in a vat of sweet and sour sauce and hand it to you on a paper plate. I always get a squirt of wasabi on the side.
How they manage to stay on the stick until the last bite still baffles me. I tried to pay attention as I ate the last one I had, which was quite some time ago. But "I" think they make a chicken shish kabob, dip it in tempura batter, deep fry it, let it cool, then build an egg roll around it with a large won ton sheet. Then deep fry it a second time. It's the only logical way I can imagine.
But damn, they.are.awesome!

edit: I just realized I got carried away with food on a stick and it wasn't even the QotD. heh.

Villains? Hmmm. Snidely Whiplash is quite the mustache twisting bondage practitioner. Always tying poor sweet Nell Fenwick to the tracks to be saved continually by the hansom fellow, Dudley Do-Right.
There was a time when villains took pride in their craft and dressed to the nines. Why don't villains wear top hats anymore? It's a shame, really.

Niveous wrote:My immediate reaction was Star Trek: TNG. My reasoning- TNG has the better villains.

You realize that every single TNG villain worth mention is just a ripoff of a Doctor Who villain, right?

Remember, Doctor Who has been running on and off since 1963, with an amazing cast of villains both one-off and recurring, such as the Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans, Autons, the Master and Rani okay who am I kidding she sucks, and many decades' worth of social issues stated metaphorically. Hell, in one episode, the villain was the democratic process itself (in ways which become more and more relevant with every new election cycle).

The modern episodes since 2005 are very different than the old series - and even then they STILL have far better villains than TNG! The Family of Blood, the weeping angels, the Silence, and a far better fake-Satan than TNG's fake-Satan ever was.

Don't get me wrong, I loved TNG. But Doctor Who kicks its butt.

Many people agree with you, Fluffy. Dr Who won that matchup by about 100 votes.

The whole thing about Dr. Who being on since 1963 shouldn't matter (though i will say that having 11 Doctors worth of Who vs just one captains worth of Star Trek is unfair). That would be like saying the Rolling Stones are better than the Beatles just because the Stones are still going and the Beatles only existed for a decade.

I can't really comment enough on new Dr. Who, I haven't seen enough of it. I grew up on old Who and I'll take ST:TNG over old Who anytime.

My kids are still getting through the first ST series, not sure they even know there were others. I never watched any others beyond a couple episodes here and there and I can't even say which series they were from. But they are totally addicted to the new Dr Who, which I have enjoyed tremendously as well.

Niveous wrote:Many people agree with you, Fluffy. Dr Who won that matchup by about 100 votes.

The whole thing about Dr. Who being on since 1963 shouldn't matter (though i will say that having 11 Doctors worth of Who vs just one captains worth of Star Trek is unfair). That would be like saying the Rolling Stones are better than the Beatles just because the Stones are still going and the Beatles only existed for a decade.

I can't really comment enough on new Dr. Who, I haven't seen enough of it. I grew up on old Who and I'll take ST:TNG over old Who anytime.

I didn't say that it's better because it's been on longer. (And even if I did, if you look at the sum total of Star Trek you're still pretty limited compared to the sum total of Doctor Who.)

What I did say is that the Borg are a pastiche of the Cybermen and Daleks, and Star Trek has very few memorable villains that aren't just ripoffs of something from Doctor Who anyway.

Just because something is a derivative of something else doesn't mean the result can't be better. But I'm not going to try and defend Star Trek TNG's villains because in the grand scheme of things, other than Q, I wouldn't put them in my favorites. I think there are other shows that have done a much better job with their villains like (flame shields up) BtVS.

Nerd fight!

TARDIS!
NO! Guardian of FOREVER!

HOT TUB!

..ugh

Best time machine... hmmm. I think you just wrote tomorrow's QotD, BLT.

Niveous wrote:Just because something is a derivative of something else doesn't mean the result can't be better. But I'm not going to try and defend Star Trek TNG's villains because in the grand scheme of things, other than Q, I wouldn't put them in my favorites. I think there are other shows that have done a much better job with their villains like (flame shields up) BtVS.

Sure, I know, I just think that Doctor Who's execution was better to begin with. There are definitely better shows on the basis of the strength of the villains. I was just responding to this as initially posed:

Yesterday, website io9 got to the semi-finals of their science fiction tv March Madness tournament. The big match up was Doctor Who vs. Star Trek: the Next Generation. My immediate reaction was Star Trek: TNG. My reasoning- TNG has the better villains.

I wasn't actually answering the QotD.

I have always hated Dr Who and Star Trek. Still, if they keep nerds off the streets - it is all good.

Hard to pick the best villain.

Toss up between
The Riddler

and

TH
The Penguin

though it is hard to go past Catwoman

When it comes to Batman, the answer is always The Joker.

Which one? Nicholson? Romero? Ledger? Hamill? DiMaggio?

Steve Miller

I see what you did there.

Why oh why is Batman not available on DVD?!?!?


I heard rumours it is coming out this year.
Could any of you kids with your ears to the ground - please tell me when I can get it.

Star Wars too. I was never a big Star Wars fan - but my daughter is now of an age she may enjoy it - and it beats the hell out of many current movies. Why can't I buy it on DVD? (I am talking - obviously - of the first one - which is now the fourth one or some crap)



...or are these just a regional problem I have and I should buy from OS? Thus raising the ever confusing DVD zone thingy question. I just bought a really expensive TV that takes voice commands. Maybe I can get these things in a computery way on it......should we have a special thread for 'old people' questions?

Which Batman? There have been at least a dozen different franchises, most of which have been released on DVD in the US, but I have no idea about their Aussie availability.

The original Star Wars trilogy has been on DVD for years, although these days it's hard to find it except in the "special edition" version. I did manage to buy the "extended special edition" version when it was available, since that came with the original non-retouched versions. Unfortunately the video quality is pretty crappy on it, because they encoded it as 4:3 letterboxed instead of 16:9 (I have an old rant about that on my site, surprise surprise). I have no idea if that was ever available in your region.

However, there are workarounds.

fluffy wrote:Which Batman? There have been at least a dozen different franchises, most of which have been released on DVD in the US, but I have no idea about their Aussie availability.

There has only been ONE Batman. Adam West.

Only the 1966 movie is available on DVD.
The TV series has never been released.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_(TV ... home_video

fluffy wrote: The original Star Wars trilogy has been on DVD for years, although these days it's hard to find it except in the "special edition" version. I did manage to buy the "extended special edition" version when it was available, since that came with the original non-retouched versions. Unfortunately the video quality is pretty crappy on it, because they encoded it as 4:3 letterboxed instead of 16:9 (I have an old rant about that on my site, surprise surprise). I have no idea if that was ever available in your region.

Star Wars is currently out of print on DVD. THe seem to be doing the Disney trick of withdrawing the movies from release for periods of time - then "re-releasing" them

Yep, and every time they do there's more "improvements" to it. Guido shot first! Now he shot first multiple times! Now there's a firefight between him and Han! Han talks to Jabba and steps on his tail! Now there's MORE ROCKS on Tattooine! It's ridiculous.

Supposedly the Blu-Ray releases are the 'final version' and now that Lucas no longer owns his own IP it'll PROBABLY stay that way. I'm hoping that Disney does the right thing and does a proper unadulterated Blu-Ray release at some point. Disney actually acknowledges the value of their classics, at least.