The Song Fight Bulletin Board

What is left unsaid?

Well, what's left unDRAWN is some art...

it's blank. it needs filled in.

Spud wrote:Well, what's left unDRAWN is some art...

I unDERTOOK that mission and added some art.

Jon ....
!!!!!!

I love that.
I hope I can live up to it. How brilliant...

Let the fight begin. Votes go to the three left standing.

Berkeley Social SceneFirst up we have the ever present Berkley Social Scene. This tune starts off really nice. I like the groove quite a bit. Not a big fan of that change at .40 and 1:38. Really throws off the flow. Nice use of Keyboard censorship. This has probably been my favorite of yours over the past few months. Nice solo/lead sound. Nice smooth and clean flow. Nice tune, but will it survive the brutal hand that BGM has every intention on dealing. Lets find out....


bgmRight away the quality knocks me off my feet. A really nice mix. Great sounding voice, a nice warm, non muddy sound. A subtle synth is nice, but not sure if it necessarily fits the tune. Definetely does not take away from the tune though. Clean short, and professional....and quite possibly LETHAL as in one fell swoop BGM practically decapitates BerklySS (he's not quite done, but he seems to be bleeding out. Lets give BGM a moment to wipe the blood from his brow before sending him in to lock horns with Billy and the Psychotics (dragging along BSS just in case). This could promise to be the battle of the evening. We shall see....


Billy and the PsychoticsBilly leads in with a flurry of quirky guitar sounds laying in a great rhythm. I tend to really dig Billy's guitar work. Really interesting approaches to the tune. Vocals sound clean as always. I'm hot and cold on the singer from week to week. Love it when the male and female vox mix though. The tones really balance each other out. A great groove. Bass is sitting nice in the mix, which makes me jealouse, as I always have issues with my kick and bass EQs.

Now that we have the first three tunes taken care, its gonna start getting rough. The stench of songdeath will soon reach the roaring crowds. Lets bring in the 4th combatant and see who will be the first to fall to the wayside..


Dejected MotivesThe gates to the arena are opening, and in comes Dejected Motives swinging his discoball mace over his head trying to do some damage to the three previous fighters. This is a tough one. Vocals are high on this mix, the tune itself is sorta groggy, not very interesting. I'm usually quite big on Vocal effects, but I find them quite distractin here. Maybe just tone them down a bit, or mix them with a clean vocal track. I find them slopped on a bit heavy. lot of glitchyness to them. Well The mirrorball mace has shattered. The three previous fighters have joined forces and have put an end to DM. Now they await the next....


DJ Ranger JonDJRanger Jon? hmmmmm a colaboration interesting. A piano tune as per normal, so lets see if "jon" is on vocals. Oh Jon is quiet. He has a voice that reminds me of Kevin Hearn. This is a nice tune. I would like to hear the vox sit a bit better in the mix. A lovely sounding piano as always. A nice submission, but I think I am more of a fan of DJRanger Den. Our top three have dozed off, but are snapped back to it by a well thrown tomato from the crowd. They quickly snap back to action and finish off DJRJ. BSS although losing a lot of blood is still in the hunt. Lets see what happens when we introduce....


The Economy BiscuitsThis beast is walking in with purpose. His battle axe poised to do some damage. The start of this tune makes me want to sing the lyrics to Gradys - Hammer in my Hand chorus. That is a great thing. Great heavy sound. Vox sound great in this mix. My only issue with this tune, is the lead guitar sound. Doesnt fit this tune well. Hurts it even. Otherwise, a great submission. Great enough to finally put an end to Berkley Social Scene. They put up a great fight, but the competition proved to much. Onward moves Billy and the P's, BGM, and Economy Biscuits


FoobarIs this a five for Fighting tune? Elements of the vox I dig. Sorta have a "National" type of voice. Its there and then its not. A good sounding mix all around. There is something to tje flow of this tune that seems all over the place. I cant seem to settle into it. Looking forward to your next submission, but unfortunately this is not strong enough to take down any of the top three so far. Its a red red ending for economy biscuits as our top three devour them.


g_rockIn comes our next competitor to take a stab at one of the top three. This song starts off cool. You got a good voice. Songs got a decent groove. The drums are a tad low and a bit washed out in this mix IMO. The Harp isnt working for me either, but I like this tune. Short, sweet, a good all around......OH...without warning economy biscuits swings that big axe and puts an end to the hopes and dreams of G-rock. A great submission but not a top 3 this week unfortunately


Havarti on RyeBring in the next one. Nice and clear mix starting off. Lots going on though. A bit heavy on the pads for me in places. wow, very short. This is not enough to move on, or for me to really discuss. Sounded good, but as your fifth grade teacher told your parents "he/she is capable of so much more if he focuses and quits the daydreaming". "DEATH TO YOUR DREAMS" yells one of Billy's Psychotics. The three move on to face...


The Hell YeahsHELL YEAH!! Strong, aggressive. Great lead sound! You guys know your sound, and you know how to weild it. A great recording and mix. I bet you guys do a mean cover of L7's Shit List. This is top notch. Its keeping me interested, its sonically balanced. With a flick of the wrist the Hell Yeahs have done away with Economy Biscuits. There can be only one. Our new top three of BGM, Billy and the P's, and the Hell Yeahs move on to face...Jeebus Jones. I will step into the ring for this one


Jeebas JonesThis is a collaboration between myself, TRJones, and a buddy of ours in Brazil. Jones on Vocals, and various guitars, Me on the production, main guitar riff, and Organ. This was a great learning experience. I have never done the mp3 trading thing. Everyone had their own recording setup, so it was quite the chore getting all the sounds balanced. I like this tune though. Its an okay mix although the low end I had some troubles with. I wouldnt normally do this, but someone has to go. I like this tune. I ask the arena. the arena puts their thumbs down, and Billy ...wait lets listen to the top 3 again....NOPE, I cant in good concience remove any of the top 3. Its not as good as them. So the three move on. (Full disclosure:I'll still vote for myself and TRjones though).

Two left, can either of them put a dent in our top 3?


My Social Uniform A nice clean mix. Gotta bit of an RnB feel, a bit top 40, catchy. Not a big fan of the lyrics. This is a swell mix though. Lots going on, but nothing is really competeing with each other. All the elements work really nice together. I dig the changup around the 2:20 mark. A great submission but it wont get my top 3. Really looking forward to your next submission though.


Paco del StinkoPaco has gotten my vote on a few occasions. This sounds great, a real nice mix. The song itself is not working for me. Mostly the vocal approach. Its a weak intro with a strong ending. This will not crack my top 3 unfortunately.

So with that, we have completed FIll in the Blank with Votes going to BGM, Billy and the Psychotics, and the Hell Yeahs. (honorable mention to Jeebus Jones)

Great fight gang, until next time

JakeDeLorey wrote: Billy and the PsychoticsBilly leads in with a flurry of quirky guitar sounds laying in a great rhythm. I tend to really dig Billy's guitar work. Really interesting approaches to the tune. Vocals sound clean as always. I'm hot and cold on the singer from week to week. Love it when the male and female vox mix though. The tones really balance each other out. A great groove. Bass is sitting nice in the mix, which makes me jealouse, as I always have issues with my kick and bass EQs.

Cool! Thanks, Jake! Sorry, I've been slammed and haven't had a chance to listen and comment yet.

Also, if I can be of any help with techniques I use in my mixes, just ask. I'm no Albini, but I'm learning new techniques all the time. As far as the kick/bass EQ method, you need to learn to carve and notch the two when they are fighting for low frequency. And also, I can't stress this enough, you need to high pass or EQ out the low frequencies of pretty much every track in the mix except the kick and bass. And even a little on them too if needed. You'll be amazed at how much room you have from 500hz down when you simpley take the unheard lows out of each track that do not need them.

Social Uniform---Moe Money, like this, bad azz bass, great vocals.

JeebaJones---Really like the style and the dudes voice.

The Economy Biscuits - Like the overall sound.

My Social Uniform - Catchy chorus. Sticks with you.

G Rock - Raw and gritty rock. Liked it a lot.

Let's start by saying this is my first review, and my opinions are just that. All of the songs are great and I really enjoyed the listen! let's get to it..
Berkeley Social Scene
Nice falsetto, got my attention...the self-censorship was well done...maybe a little too much reverb sauce for my taste...at 2:00 the guitar solo is old school fun!

bgm
really cool synth sounds and a solid, solid vocal...maybe more definition between the verse and chorus? also, it feels like it wants to explode at some point but just doesn't quite get there

Billy and the Psychotics
this has a great groove with smooth quality transitions....love the instrumentation...2:10 I like the bridge but you lose me in a sea of words! the transition back in the final chorus makes it all work somehow though. does that make any sense?

Dejected Motives
it's all about the vocoding for me. I've tried and tried but just can't get what I look for...this is what I look for. Teach me. The only other thing is that it feels a little out of time in places and it shuts down the groove...

DJ Ranger Jon
I feel stupid calling myself a pianist after hearing this. An immaculate piano recording with very musical progressions...I could see this as a showcase set piece in a big budget romantic comedy.

The Economy Biscuits
heavy song but the drums seem too small, specifically the snare...this thing is sung with some passion, great job! I would've stayed with cut-time through the entire piece because it's grooving really well..

Foobar
This song lost me in the beginning of the chorus and then got me back in at the end of the chorus! I'm curious about the lyric...are you saying that marriage is a slow death? because that's pretty sweet!

g_rock
This is probably my favorite...had me at harmonica.

Havarti on Rye
Loving the beat, this drives really well. waaaay too short! I was not done listening!

The Hell Yeahs
Well sung, great guitar ryhthms, awesome organ underneath...I find my mind wandering at 2:10, maybe trade last verse for a tasty breakdown?

Jeebas Jones
It reminds me of Rooney and that's a good thing! I understand this was a long distance group effort? very difficult to be cohesive and yet you pull it off well...I'm already a fan of TRJones from the last fight (scientific 7), so I'm in. I want more vocal here though, don't get me wrong the guitar is good but I just want more singing...

My Social Uniform
This one is my submission...what can I say, it's just not finished, I ran out of time...and my vision was too lofty. Here's a fun fact- the vocal was recorded with Circle K's finest wine, Barefoot Moscato, donated to the cause by my friend Estelle.

Paco del Stinko
This is good punk, moves along well...and recorded clean. Could this benefit from being 10 or 15 bpm faster? If you're gonna do it, go all the way.

Good luck to all the fighters....

Thanks BLT, appreciate the offer. I have been doing the notching thing and it has really helped my mixes. In this song situation though (jeebus Jones), even after doing my notching and getting rid of the non important high and low end frequencies that just serve to muddy up or hiss out a recording, I was still ending up with tons of low end. I saw that my kick was causing a lot of it, even after rolling off the low end of it quite drastically. When turning on the analyzer though, it appeared that rolling off the low end by a good degree was still not getting rid of the muddiness. SO there was something else that was causing a big bump in my low end and I could not find it. I have a feeling that my reverb may have been the cause. In the past I normally added reverb to each track seperately, and my reverb from all tracks has stacked and created some real awful frequencies. Not to mention everything sounds like its recorded seperately and somewhere else when you have 6 different types of reverb floating around. I have just started the practice of busing my tracks to aux tracks that contains my reverb, Delay etc. Its helped a lot. This time however I didnt, and I think some tones stacked in a detrimental way. I mean the track sounds fine I guess, but from one set of speakers to the next its not consistent, which is one of my goals when mixing. Lots to learn. Love it. I am gathering up courage to record a little drum kit for the next fight. A whole new can of worms, but ideally where I would like to head.

pauley g wrote: Jeebas Jones
It reminds me of Rooney and that's a good thing! I understand this was a long distance group effort? very difficult to be cohesive and yet you pull it off well...I'm already a fan of TRJones from the last fight (scientific 7), so I'm in. I want more vocal here though, don't get me wrong the guitar is good but I just want more singing...

Thanks for the Review Pauley. Reviews are my favorite part, and one of the big reasons I come here. I just listened to a few Rooney tunes, as I was unfamiliar with them. I didnt quite see the similarities. Did you have a particular song in mind? Not that it matters, I was just sort of curious.

TRJones and I had the exact same debate regarding vocals. i felt the song was incomplete, and I wanted him to belt out another verse and possibly a chorus. He was more along the lines of the "less is more" school of thought. Thats the way he rolls. So we wnt with it. We are sort of night and Day musicaly when it comes to recording. When we Jam though its eye to eye. Been awhile since I have jammed with him though since the move. This song was an attempt to figure out a way electronically to scratch that Jam itch.

On a side note, as I listen to your track again, Your vocals sound so good in this mix. nice and clear. Whats your setup? I have started doing research on compression. I cant quite get my head around it, but I think a good knowledge of how compression works will help my vocals immensly. Thank god for youtube Logic tutorials. Cheers

JakeDeLorey wrote:Thanks BLT, appreciate the offer. I have been doing the notching thing and it has really helped my mixes. In this song situation though (jeebus Jones), even after doing my notching and getting rid of the non important high and low end frequencies that just serve to muddy up or hiss out a recording, I was still ending up with tons of low end. I saw that my kick was causing a lot of it, even after rolling off the low end of it quite drastically. When turning on the analyzer though, it appeared that rolling off the low end by a good degree was still not getting rid of the muddiness. SO there was something else that was causing a big bump in my low end and I could not find it. I have a feeling that my reverb may have been the cause. In the past I normally added reverb to each track seperately, and my reverb from all tracks has stacked and created some real awful frequencies. Not to mention everything sounds like its recorded seperately and somewhere else when you have 6 different types of reverb floating around. I have just started the practice of busing my tracks to aux tracks that contains my reverb, Delay etc. Its helped a lot. This time however I didnt, and I think some tones stacked in a detrimental way. I mean the track sounds fine I guess, but from one set of speakers to the next its not consistent, which is one of my goals when mixing. Lots to learn. Love it. I am gathering up courage to record a little drum kit for the next fight. A whole new can of worms, but ideally where I would like to head.

Well, it sounds like you're doing all the right things, so we're pretty much on the same level. At least you have an idea of where your issues are coming from. That's half the battle.

With that said, I did listen to your song. It sounds great. I also know where your kick issue is that's bothering you and why it's muddy/boomy.
You are doing what we all do when the kick isn't coming through good in the mix the way we want. You turn it up and then go through a whole bunch of EQing/compressing/expanding to it to make it better. It sounded fine when you just dial in the kit by it's self, but once all the other tracks come in, it gets lost, right?
The kick issue in your mix is that there is no beater click. It's all boom. Magic happens when you fade in a high tap/click beater sound to the kick track. It magically (scientifically) fills in everything in between the low and high. Also, it allows you to reduce the main kick track, automatically reducing the muddy and or boominess.

I might not be telling you anything new, but just in case I'll tell you what "I'd" do to your kick track.
1. I'd solo all the drum tracks to get them perfectly dialed in together.
After all the other tracks are recorded in mixed in.
2. I'd duplicate the kick track. (paralleling is the term, but it depends on your DAW) I simply duplicate the track.
2 1/2. edit: Now use a gate (I use a kick gate pre-set)to take out as much mic bleed as possible so you only hear the beater hitting the skin.
3. Now I solo the duplicated track and use a 4 band. EQ (you can use a high pass, but multi-band EQ is best in my opinion in this case)
4. Pull the lowest freq. all the way down and sweep it across until all you hear is a horrible tick tick tick of the kick.
5. Then to make it worse, take the 1k'ish - 5k'ish point and push it up about 5db and sweep it back and forth until you find the sweet spot of the awful click of the beater.
6. Now that you have this tick sound making you want to puke, compress the hell out of it so it's pretty consistent with every tick.
7. Now go back to your mix with the copied beater tick track fader all the way down. Loop a loud part of the song and let your ears adjust to the mix. After your ears are readjusted from all those tick tick track settings, go ahead and start bringing the beater tick track up in the mix.

Basically by adding that beater tick sound, it crosses over frequencies with the drum boom sound and fills in between. You just need to find the sweet spot between the tick and the boom.
The beauty is that you can lower the boom, yet still hear the kick shine through in the mix. Probably one of the best kick tricks I've learned.

PLUS, that beater tick is so different from the bass guitar frequencies, that it automatically adds separation and quite often you don't even need to carve kick/bass frequencies. But carving is the way to get huge separation from the kick and bass if your mix is asking for it.

cliffs: tick tick tick goes the kick

pauley g wrote: Billy and the Psychotics
this has a great groove with smooth quality transitions....love the instrumentation...2:10 I like the bridge but you lose me in a sea of words! the transition back in the final chorus makes it all work somehow though. does that make any sense?

Thanks, Pauley! Yeah, the bridge got away from the original plan and we have SO many guitar solo bridges already. We're trying to change it up for variety, but time was of the essence. It really came down to getting a bridge verse in one short measure and thought it would be fun to do it in one run-on sentence, thus making it sound rap'ish. It was meant to be more poetic, but eh, the song makes the final decisions.

That is brilliant!! I never even considered that. Thank you so much.

JakeDeLorey wrote:That is brilliant!! I never even considered that. Thank you so much.

Go do it to your Fill In The Blank song when you get a chance. It's such a cool trick, you'll freak.

Quite a good fight this week. I really enjoyed BatP's song as it felt like a rocked out "This Must Be The Place (Naive Melody)" during the verses. The Hell Yeahs' mad lib song was brilliant and funny. Lithium Batteries, lol. And I dug the Jeebas Jones as well.

@JakeDeLorey I don't think it's so much about Rooney, as much as it is about the feeling I get when listening...the song makes me loosen up a little and I feel funkier. It's a song I would listen to with the windows down, cruising around with no particular place to be I get that with Rooney and I get that here! Again, fantastic job...
As for my vocal, my signal path starts with a GrooveTube large diaphram tube condenser which I suspect is doing most of the work here. It's a great mic for vocals. I have an Apogee Duet which handles the analog to digital, and from there to Logic 9. You should be aware that it's hit and miss with me and a good vocal sound! Sometimes I get a good clean one, sometimes it's terrible and I never know why. I suspect there are just too many variables. With this track, my eq is cutting everything below 650hz, boosted slightly and sharply at around 1700 to 2100hz and lifted again slightly at just under 10khz. Then compressed but just enough to smooth everything out. Compression may be your friend, but it's a friend that gets pissed off if you don't spend enough time with her! Take your time, twirl the knobs, listen. Eventually it will make sense. Also, I think my mastering compressor and eq also have a big effect on how this sits in the mix. I see you also use Logic 9...try out the matching eq on your overall mix. I attribute this to the positive placement of my vocal. When I applied it, I actually had to turn down the vox because it was just overpowering everything. I think I used the pop preset in it with very little adustment (had to tame the low end). The vocal also has a small room vocal plate reverb on it using space designer. I set it where I thought it sounded good, then turned it down another 20%. Lastly, the lead vocal is pretty much the only thing dead center in the stereo field..the reverb makes it a little wider. The only other thing close is kick and snare and they're a fuzz left and right respectively. I hope this helps. My compression advice is to just use a little bit on any given channel strip...remember that you will compress it again in mastering! If you ever try dubstep, previous advice does not apply!

Dejected motives
Vocals sound a little loud and overdriven like you are too close to the mic.
Vocoder is fun. Song would be better with vocals a tad softer in the mix. Fun groove

My social uniform
Nice bass and intro. Like the synth sounds. Breaks into that cool bass line. Chorus stays with you.
I listen to all the songs a few times before I review and I think I woke up with this song in my head one morning. Vocals are really clean.

Havarti on rye
Like the bass and handclaps. Is that a flute? Like the… wow its over. I was gonna say samples.

Berkeley social scene
Like the falsetto. Sounds good. Vocal sound is good. Harmonies are cool. I like this song the more I hear it. Good job. Like it.

The economy biscuits
Heavy guitar metal sound. Very industrial sounding. Feedback synth sound is cool. Reminds me of filter.

Foobar
Im not sure what a red wedding is. But piano sounds great. Drums sound very electronic. There was a moment I heard the rattle of the bass strings (fret buzz) and I like that, sounded real. I like a little dirt in my music.

DJ ranger jon
Soft piano somber sounding. Like the sparcity of the intro to the melody. The notes you play are just as important as the ones you don’t.
I follow the mood I get the emotion. Piano sounds good to my ears. I like when the vocals go high at the end. It sounds like the best part your best voice.

Billy and the psychotics
Is the into the guitar reversed or just reverse reverb. Love your vocals. The chemistry you two have is great. You work well together. Chorus is great. Im intrigued by your writing method.
Didn’t care for the bridge. Too much happening in too short of a time. Something just sticks out a bit too far in the bridge and it detracts from the build but the song still manages to end feeling whole. The song is one of my favs this week. Cant wait to hear more from you guys. Every fight I write a song and think that it’s alright until I hear yours. I think you are upping everyone’s game.

Paco del stinko
Punky. The ride is too bright. Smalll thing. Like the synth arpeggio. Like when your voice drops low. Like the build of the song when it all hits. Solo is right on time. Liked it.

Jeebas jones
Damn that guitar hook really stays with you. Love your vocals. For distance work it all really flows well. Good song. im glad your trying the collab thing. It really fills the your sound out. You got a bad ass voice. I like your songs. Keep em coming.

Bgm
Really impressed with the quality but you were too im sure. Catchy and building. Bridge is spot on and flows great right back. Nice writing, nice playing and one of the best this week. But you already knew that.

The hell yeahs
Nice lead intro grabs you.
… in the yeah baby yeah!
Were the lyrics written with the fill in the blank method. Hell yeah if you did.
Funny.
Good song. Easy to like.

Other shit
Billy keep the wisdom flowing. Thanks for sharing your techniques. I feel like I learn something every time you say something. Ok not every time, but you know what im saying.

g_rock

g_rock wrote: Billy and the psychotics
Is the into the guitar reversed or just reverse reverb. Love your vocals. The chemistry you two have is great. You work well together. Chorus is great. Im intrigued by your writing method.
Didn’t care for the bridge. Too much happening in too short of a time. Something just sticks out a bit too far in the bridge and it detracts from the build but the song still manages to end feeling whole. The song is one of my favs this week. Cant wait to hear more from you guys. Every fight I write a song and think that it’s alright until I hear yours. I think you are upping everyone’s game.

Firstly, thanks g! You guessed it, it is the guitar processed, but not reversed. I was trying to create a cool sounding pad to go with the song. The left guitar was also doubled on the right. So I started playing with FX on the right guitar soloed by it's self and all of a sudden I did something and it sounded like an angelic voice repeating something. I thought, hmmm, there is no vocal in that loop, just my harmonic guitar strum riff, why does it sound like angels? And how amazingly fitting for this particular song, weird. Are they trying to send me a message? What are they trying to tell me? It sounds like "love me"...or wait, they are saying "hug me". Then I cranked it through my monitors loud and then I heard it! They are saying "ur ugly.
I shook my fist at the sky and yelled, damn you angels!

And yeah, the bridge is a big contrast to the song. I do like a bridge that takes on it's own identity, which shows in our past music. But this one wasn't what was originally intended and the contrast is a bit extreme. I have a terrible habit of over doing things. Just yesterday I was working on some music and the room was getting hot. I have a fan with a speed knob that goes from 1 to 10. I turned it to 11. I now have the fan knob sitting on my desk and have to plug in and unplug my fan. Which I'm fine with because I want it all or nothing!