The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Round Two has begun!

Title: Stop (You're Killing Me)
Non Optional Challenge: Song must include a repeating section that goes from Major to Minor or vice versa.
Songs are due on Monday, May 5th @ 12:01 AM EDT
Send your MP3 to nurein.sidefight@gmail.com

4 bands will be eliminated. Judges favorite gets immunity.

Submitted.
Nur Ein!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think that's a new record.

It just sort of happened this morning. And I think you might agree that any attempt to revise, tweak, or try something else would have been a downhill move.

Well, color me impressed. If I'm not mistaken, nobody has ever won Round 0 and then been eliminated in Round 1, but in the unlikely event that you don't make the cut, I'll still rank and review your Round 2 song.

Now, as for the inevitable nitpicking questions regarding the challenge...

It just so happens that the very best example of this technique I can think of is a Song Fight song, Jim of Seattle's "Gin or Ginseng." Listen here: http://www.songfight.org/music/gin_or_g ... le_gog.mp3

As for what we're expecting? I just want to hear a passage of any length in your song with at least two iterations, one in a major key and one in a minor key. I could be an instrumental line, a line of melody, a couple of chords, doesn't really matter to me as long as it's recognizable as a modulated repetition. Don't expect to get away with something like "Well, I used an E major chord here, and an E-minor chord later in the song"; there needs to be some recognizable musical element being repeated.

As always, feel free to chime in with questions, complaints, or other recognizable songs that meet the challenge.

So shall we take take that to be the definition of "a repeating section that goes from major to minor?" What is meant is that we should repeat some portion of the song and one time it is in major and one time it is in minor? That is not at all how I interpreted it when I read it.

Can other judges confirm or deny that definition?

Jon Eric's explanation is pretty spot-on.

Ross, how did you interpret it?

Last night when I wrote my song, I interpreted it as "have a section of your song that repeats that performs a shift from major to minor or vis-versa".

It sounds like the interpretation should be "have a section of your song that is performed in both major and minor at different points".

IMO, not very clear. I'll just do a whole bunch of scale changes to cover all my bases.

I took it to mean that there should be a section or ohrase that modulated from major to minor (or vice versa) and that section or phrase should be repeated several times in a row.

Yep, I parsed the challenge in the same way as Ross.

Hmmmm...I find myself having submitted a song that meets the challenge as worded, but doesn't quite meet the criteria in the elaboration above. I'm going to have to stick with what I submitted. It might mean I get eliminated like last year for the "metal" challenge.

Well, this is a conundrum. Clearly what we intended is not the same as what we got. Ben, there's no way you're going to get eliminated over this misunderstanding. That's just not fair. I'm talking to the judges right now and we'll figure out a way to handle this problem.

Please consider redifining the challenge in a way that encompasses whatever ben did. We should all be on an equal challenge playing field. When you do decide what to do, please let us know whether we are bound by JonEric's description or not.

Thanks

Why did Ben get eliminated from last year's "metal" challenge?

i wrote an 8 bar chord pattern in a major key, then I wrote it again in the minor key. The beginning and the end of the 8 bars are the one, so you can hear the tonic shift to minor and then back. Many melodies will follow in both minor and major ways, they will also be the same melodies as each other but minor and major versions. I see no reason we can't have some Lydian and Locrian too.

Am I reading the challenge right Mr Eric?

the way to read the challenge is:
1. if your song has "a repeating section" (an unclarified term within the instructions as concerning melodic or lyric content)...
2. that switches between major and minor or minor to major (number of times not specified)

you have fulfilled the instructions.

Ben read instructions and wrote a song. If it fulfills the instructions but not the thread discussion this is irrelevant, IMO; although it would be unfortunate to see an elimination based on such things. Half the fun is interpretation of challenge vaguenesses, to me.

The judges have discussed and we are going to leave the challenge open for intrepretation. It's the only way to keep it fair for those who have already started work on their songs. So, let's see in your songs however you intrepret having a repeating section with a major/minor shift.

RangerDenni wrote:the way to read the challenge is:
1. if your song has "a repeating section" (an unclarified term within the instructions as concerning melodic or lyric content)...
2. that switches between major and minor or minor to major (number of times not specified)

you have fulfilled the instructions.

I agree. You can ask for clarification in the forums, but if it's not in the original challenge, it's not fair having the judges change the way it's interpreted.

I know BYD's been guilty of trying to take an interpretation to the edge, and have been DQed or on the line several times in SpinTunes, which is a big part of the fun in doing these challenges. But if it's stated one way, and isn't clear in the wording, you go by the exact wording, not what the judges 'meant' to do and adjust it accordingly.

I read it as RangerDenni did. Not JonEric's interpretation of the challenge. I'm glad he clarified things from the judging side, but you don't get to pull that one back once it's out there.
Perhaps the future challenges should be reviewed closer if there is going to be a stricter interpretation of the final results.

I'm amazed at how quickly some of you guys work! By this point in most Nur Ein rounds where I've been a participant, I hadn't even figured out how I was going to tackle the song, and here we've got three people who've already written songs based on a "wrong" interpretation of the challenge (including one already turned in)!

My post above, clarifying the challenge, can still be used as inspiration, jumping-off-point, or as context for those looking for a "way in" to this challenge. However, we will not exclude any songs written based on the other interpretation of the challenge as described by MG, Ross, and others. Furthermore, I will do my best not to be partial towards one interpretation over the other, and I trust the other judges to do the same.

So, with that drama behind us... Can anyone else think of songs that with notable modulations from major to minor or vice-versa?

RangerDenni wrote:the way to read the challenge is:
1. if your song has "a repeating section" (an unclarified term within the instructions as concerning melodic or lyric content)...
2. that switches between major and minor or minor to major (number of times not specified)

you have fulfilled the instructions.

I've worked out a rocking chorus that I really like that repeats, so I interpreted it that a "repeating section" could be a chorus. My chorus has four chords: Gmajor-Bminor-Aminor-Bmajor, and it very much has a sound of going from major to minor back to major.

At this point in the week if I need to put it aside and work out something else I've got plenty of time though.

Generic wrote:I'm amazed at how quickly some of you guys work!

I've got to have mine submitted by Tuesday night, because I'll be out of town. See, this is why I lobbied for the sooner announcements.

Thanks for being such an understanding and elaborating judge.

Ross wrote:So shall we take take that to be the definition of "a repeating section that goes from major to minor?" What is meant is that we should repeat some portion of the song and one time it is in major and one time it is in minor? That is not at all how I interpreted it when I read it.

Can other judges confirm or deny that definition?

What does "in major" or "in minor" mean?

Is that just like playing repeated bits of, like - G Am G Am.....?

I really don't understand this challenge.