What was that? (Disembodied Voice reviews)

[j$]

No-one forced you to read it, or comment on it, but if you are going to dismiss every review you disagree with as "whining" then this conversation is over. And sadly, you proved my point. j$

[Jefff]

No-one forced you to read it, or comment on it, but if you are going to dismiss every review you disagree with as "whining" then this conversation is over. And sadly, you proved my point. j$

Sure, keep ignoring what I'm complaining about and pretend the problem is that I disagree with you.

[Jefff]

Be negative, sure. Be mean, fine. But put some effort in it. And own it.

[Mostess]

And everyone else is somewhere in between, with some indulgent piece of crap that takes too long to get going nowhere.

Guilty as charged. Thanks for keeping it real, Mr. Cashpoint!

We feel inspired to change out of our mopey sweatpants and write something more colorful for "I Can't Turn it Off."

[sleepysilverdoor]

Eh, I did a "wife is busy and not wanting to listen to music right now, how many seconds of each song will she put up with before telling me to change it" set once. Ruffled quite a few feathers...

Sounds shitty.

That was the general consensus. A set of thought out reviews followed.

[WreckdoMelle]

Indulgence isn’t the point of all this? I actually meant to be more epic. Think I ended seven minutes too soon...

[sleepysilverdoor]

Man imagine the indulgence we'll get from "I can't turn it off"

[jb]

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[SweeneyToad]

Ah, now these are the kind of old songfight threads I remember back from my 2007ish times, I honestly kind of always got a kick out of these, ty Johnny. Also, in regards to your review about my lyrics not connecting, all I can say is watch the movie "Her" if you haven't seen it, it's a great movie!

[Sober]

This reminds me of when that journalist lady went on a super drunk twitter rampage. My man woke up this morning and chose violence.

[ujnhunter]

Donna Trump?

[jast]

While you guys were busy arguing about a particularly low-effort and non-constructive review post, I listened to the songs. I tried commenting on different aspects of each song, to the extent I could think of something. Reviews do not cover the lyrics, I added a few token comments about them for the first one or two songs I listened to but then stopped bothering. I wrote the reviews while listening so they may be a little unstructured.

add: Clean mix but the guitar "shines" more than the vocals which is a shame. Vocals a little shaky. Song feels repetitive, change things up just a little more? The one verse where you dialed things down was nice and definitely a good choice to include, but just some minor little changes here and there would help things along a lot. Overall verdict: not exciting but definitely listenable.

Brown Word and the Big Whine: Well, I think we already know that we'll never be "music friends". However, I'm liking the intro a lot, though I'm missing some top end (and this doesn't change in the rest of the song). The drums get a little lost in the mix, while the vocals stick out. I think a significant part of this could be fixed in the static mix, but some EQ carving on the guitars would be needed to fully let the drums do their thing. In terms of the song itself, it's not going to be my favourite but I don't regret listening and I would even listen again - which is a first for me with BW&tBW. There were a few sour notes, around 2:19, 3:08, 3:18 I think. Overall verdict: nice song and it could be great with more attention to the mix.

Cloverdance: Sounds pleasant, but everything I hear sounds like background tracks. I get the impression that you were trying to be careful, both in the mix and the performances. Now I'm not saying you need to scream and whisper, but a certain amount of movement and contrast almost always makes a song more engaging. That's really my only complaint, you did a pretty good job in terms of writing and all that. Nitpick: I think the fadeout needs to be a little slower, it sounds a bit hurried. Overall verdict: nice - nothing more, nothing less.

Conspiracy of Joy: Nice guitar sound to open up with, maybe the distortion is driven just a little too hard though on some of the notes. The triangle wave that comes in before the vocals feels a little painful - it Just. Doesn't. Stop. Give my ears some breathing room or if you want it like this, dial it back a little bit. Drums way buried in the mix. I'm missing a bit of connecting tissue between the bass and the rest, feels like there's a gap in the spectrum. Pretty good vocals but fall apart a little in the highest phrases. The phrasing, especially the first vocalist's, sounds a little amateurish, particularly at the onset of notes where there's often a wobble in the pitch/intonation. I think the second vocalist needs a little bit of EQing to trim off some of the flab. Overall verdict: nice but I feel some more energy would have served this song well.

Evermind: Very unhurried intro, considering how short this is. Pleasing sound. I would have considered cutting one repetition of the four bars or at least doing something a little different in the last run, it did get a little repetitive. Rhythmically the vocals and the accompaniment feel a mite too different for me at the ends of a few phrases, though overall of course all the syncopation is what makes it interesting. Overall verdict: sounds nice but I find myself wishing you'd made more out of this.

Future Boy: Right off the bat this sounds like a demo song from a not-too-expensive keyboard. I don't exactly dislike it but it sounds very... basic. I guess that's okay if it's what you were going for, but it doesn't really appeal to me. Vocals lack character, which kind of fits with my first point. The reverb overload is an interesting change-up. Some of the "guitar" in it feels a little random, especially in terms of the rhythm. At 3:13 the electric organ seems much more present which oddly makes the whole arrangement work a lot better for me. I think it kind of fills a gaping hole. I don't quite get the abrupt ending. Overall verdict: nothing wrong with this but it doesn't excite me.

FutureProofTheories: Wow, that's a gutsy submission. You're up against all these people doing fancy-shmancy multi-track recordings with accompaniment and all. If we applied non-hobbyist standards, I'd have to say that a song this minimalist has to have a really, really strong performance to work which - let's be honest - you're not bringing. That said, we definitely have worse vocalists here, and this isn't painful to listen to or anything. It's just not very evocative. I understand you have limitations in terms of gear (and possibly instruments) to work with. So, with all that in mind, I can't really find anything to criticize. Do you think you'll want to experiment with doing more in a song? There is free software for multi-tracking music, free virtual instruments, etc. Let us know if you need pointers, I'm sure we can help! Overall verdict: good start but don't stop there!

Hostess Mostess: Nice. I think the tremolo synth/piano is a little too dynamic, particularly in its attack, in a couple of places. I would have brought in the bass a little earlier I think, and maybe turned it up just a little. The doubled vocals are awfully loose. I felt like this song was building up to something that never came, meaning I would have like this to develop a little further before it closed back down. Overall verdict: good but a little light on Stuff(tm).

J.A.N.: The backing track is painfully busy, almost like the writer felt like if there weren't constant semi-random changes in the accompaniment, people might lose interest, but this is actually more on the overload side of things in my view. Aside from the kick drum, pretty much no bass at all - why? All of the resonant filtering makes for rapid ear fatigue, particularly because there is no solid foundation (bass, other elements) it sits on - everything is always trying to move. I would honestly have preferred this as a poetry slam. Overall verdict: entropic.

Jon Porobil: I'm liking this, it's a little loose but I can live with that. Most of the unreached potential here is in the mix, which does feel rather unbalanced. The top end of the drums is a layer of noise that sticks out basically the whole time. At the very least, the other tracks should not leave them that territory completely uncontested. The bass is almost completely buried - I can tell there's something there but I can't actually "hear" it if you know what I mean. On second listen I think the delay on your vocals is way too much. Ease up! Maybe a third layer of vocals towards the end would be nice. Overall verdict: nicely upbeat (musically, that is) but falls short of "catchy".

JP Nickolas: Very in-your-face drum intro! The guitar sound is a bit of a letdown, though the staccatos sound great, just the sustained notes sound like a mass of noise mostly, could use some EQ scooping in the mids I think (I don't have any experience with mixing this genre, but now I understand why some of the songs I listened to sounded a little on the thin side when listening at lower volumes - doing that, they avoided this wall of noise). It's a shame that the vocals can't keep up with that energy - but hey, all of us aren't born metal vocalists. Small tip for vocals: sustaining voiced consonants is almost always a bad idea, try focusing more on the vowels. I think a bit of hall/plate reverb on the mix (and on the vocals in particular) - but not so much that it sounds "reverby" - might help this gel better. Doubled vocals are a little too loose for this in my opinion, and could use some dynamics treatment. The guitar stuff checks all the boxes in my mind, more generally I don't really listen to this kind of music so I don't have anything constructive to say. Overall verdict: works but could work even better.

Ken's Super Duper Band 'n Stuff: Considering your vocals are doubled, they don't have nearly enough weight in the mix, particularly in the first minute or so. More treatment of dynamics needed, I think. Song is almost too repetitive but barely stays in the range of acceptable. Competently done, nice little details like the guitar arpeggios to the right. Just a few seconds after I thought "the top background vocals could start shifting to F#-G now", you did it. You must have read my mind! Overall verdict: not particularly creative but very listenable.

Lichen Throat: I never quite know how to comment on your songs, so I decided to finally spend some extra time puzzling it out. I have two major points for you. Number one: the way you layer tracks. Obviously, putting several things on top of each other, e.g. two guitar riffs, can make things quite a lot more interesting... but it almost feels to me like you're doing it out of a feeling of duty, without quite knowing what you want to achieve by having both of these riffs play at once (for instance). So, I'd like to tell you that sometimes, less is more, and it's a good habit to only add an element if you have a rough idea of what it's supposed to accomplish. Also, I notice your riffs have a tendency to use very few rests. Rests - the absence of a note - can make stuff a lot more interesting. Listen to some great songs that you like and pay particular attention to when they don't do things - as weird as that sounds. Number two: you have a strong tendency in your vocals of smearing the pitches, i.e. at the start of the note you need some time to "warm up" to the right pitch. This is partially due to technique, but it's also habit. Simply by doing some occasional practicing hitting notes faster (without trying too hard, of course), you can do a lot to change that, to the point where it will be more of a conscious decision to smear pitches and not do it just because it's what you always do. More general feedback: apart from the pacing of many individual elements being a little over the top... considering the low pitch of your vocals, it may be interesting to explore using some more octaves in your accompaniment. Your song is a bungalow - ever considered building something a little taller? It's not like you spend all of your time in the living room. Overall verdict: could use some pruning.

luntar: Well, you certainly get to it very quickly (nothing wrong with that). There is a tracking issue when the guitar solo comes in - multiple tracks bungled up maybe? Put me off a little. The guitar pushes the distortion a little too hard in a few places. I would have enjoyed a chorus added to this, maybe with three-part harmony. Overall verdict: a bit underdeveloped for my taste, but the rest is done well.

Night Sky: Nice driving rhythm but the timing is a little too loose for it to work to maximum effect, particularly on the bass synth and everything synced to the same rhythm. The doubled vocals don't really work well for me, the doubling effect is a little too harsh. Sometimes it helps lowpassing one of the tracks a little, and/or turning it down a bit more. Vocal intonation could use a bit of work. An extra change-up of the accompaniment in the last third of the song, and maybe some build-up for the final round, would keep this more interesting, I think. The melody is not super interesting. Nice selection of sounds. Overall verdict: like but not love.

Paco del Stinko: What a sinister opening! Maybe take out one of the marbles in your mouth - I feel like generally doing the vocals this way was a good choice for this song, but I feel it's a hint too pronounced. In terms of setting the mood, this was really good. As a song standing on its own, it doesn't have much staying power. It's more of a soundtrack piece in my mind - but a darn good one at that. Overall verdict: mission accomplished.

The Pannacotta Army: All very competently done. Melody is extremely repetitive until the change-up at 1:28 - which pleasantly surprised me and made me hope you'd start doing more things with the melody from that point... but you didn't. Shame. That's really the only thing that bothers me about this song. I figure you did this deliberately, it just doesn't work that well for me. It's just downward progressions over and over, at least a little bit of breaking out of that would have been nice. That said, the arrangement does a really good job at saving it. Lots of interesting things in there, never gets boring, never too much, never jarring. Overall verdict: object lesson in how to do accompaniments right.

Phlebia: Wow, that intro guitar is nasty (in a good way)! Up to and including the first drum fill, I liked this a lot, but after that the drums sound really nasty to me. The kick gets lost in the background, the snare is just a big burst of noise each time. If there's any hi-hat in there I can't hear it. The ride cymbal is good, though. The bass is masked by the guitar almost the whole way through. Vocal timing is a little off in a few phrases. After a minute the unchanging accompaniment is getting on my nerves. You could let it build up a little more, have it pull back ever so slightly and then build back up, whatever. Apart from that I think this is pretty darn well done and the main pain point is the mix. Overall verdict: aggressive done well.

Pigfarmer Jr: Very nice sound right from the start. Have you experimented with compression on the vocals? They seem a little too dynamic to be able to hold their own with the rest of the mix. Solid song, though it kind of sounds to me like it doesn't have a chorus, when it should have one. Mix has substantial emphasis on the lead guitar (it's like there's a moat around it) and could use some more balancing. That said, that's just enhancements, the song is fine. Overall verdict: likeable.

seemanski: May contain traces of FM synthesis. Actually I think the FM gimmicking is going a little bit overboard, but maybe I'm just too vanilla? More importantly, the static mix needs work, the vocals are way too low and get drowned out, particularly once the extra saw-y synth comes in around 0:37. I think additionally a bit of distortion/saturation on the vocals could help them punch through a little better and, simultaneously, work well with the kind of style I think you were going for. Adding some sub bass (separate track, not restricted to the same envelope you're using on the bass synth) would help give this a little more body, I think. I do like the idea of playing with the tempo in this song but this is maybe overdoing it slightly. Overall verdict: interesting (and not even in a negative sense).

Sweeney Toad: Wow, that's a lot of dissonance and aliasing/quantization noise. I have absolutely nothing against that but it's so up front (and never lets up) that it gets overbearing for me very fast - in that sense I appreciate the quickly approaching and really abrupt ending. Vocals sound a little disinterested. I can see the value of playing with something like this, but I can't enjoy it, at least not before a few more passes of polish. Overall verdict: dissonant.

Third Cat: Interesting combination of things. I think the delay on the vocals is a little over the top (it sounds like it's a delay trying to be a reverb, but that's not what a delay is for. Use both if you feel like you need both), and the occasional ambience/drone synth is a little too loud in the mix compared to everything else. Nice little elements in the mix, e.g. the subtle vocoding or whatever that is. The heavily scooped guitar that comes in after 50-60 seconds is nice but a tiny bit too scooped I think, or maybe just needs to toned down a little. I like this and it really just needs a little more production. Overall verdict: inventive.

Tim Hinkle: instantly liked the opening sound/riff, but it sounds a little scooped, like something you'd EQ to fit in a full mix with other things but then you forgot to put in the other things. Then, paradoxically, the vocals are being overpowered by the scooped thing (mostly the guitar I think). Basically, there's a lot of room for improvement in cleaning up the mix. Writing is done competently (I'm not really paying attention to the lyrics too much, they're okay I guess, I'm mostly focusing on the rest), except sometimes I think the vocal melody and the riffs being played in the background clash a fair bit, and sometimes I have trouble fitting the melody into the current chord in my mind - I almost get the feeling you wrote the melody to a slightly different chord progression. Structurally, this song is, if you'll forgive the pun, sound. Starting from the 3:15 mark I think you could help break up repetition by changing up the arrangement some. Overall verdict: flawed but fixable.

[Jefff]

Thank you, this is awesome.

[crumpart]

Number two: you have a strong tendency in your vocals of smearing the pitches, i.e. at the start of the note you need some time to "warm up" to the right pitch. This is partially due to technique, but it's also habit. Simply by doing some occasional practicing hitting notes faster (without trying too hard, of course), you can do a lot to change that, to the point where it will be more of a conscious decision to smear pitches and not do it just because it's what you always do.

I know I’m not even in this fight, but this is something I tend to do as well and I’ve been trying to figure out how to not. If anyone’s got any more specific advice or exercises, I would greatly appreciate it.

[thirdcatmusic]

add - very nice. strong voice. good sounding acoustic. well done song. probably a bit straightforward for my taste but... good. VOTE.

Brown Word and the Big Whine - lo-fi sludge rock vibes. I think the vocal works pretty good for this style. drums sound pretty good, although maybe a bit low in the mix.

Cloverdance - I like the laid back vibe here and the spaced out guitar bit. maybe it could do with a bit more energy? (I know that contradicts my laid back vibe comment.) not sure. I like this but doesn't really grab me.

Conspiracy of Joy - is this Cyberonica on vocals? been away for a while but I think that must be you. new band name! this is a pretty ambitious track and has a lot going for it. but it does feel a bit long to me.

Evermind - long intro which I don't think does quite enough to draw me into the atmosphere. vocals are interestingly dry... not sure if it's a good choice but it is interesting. I have mixed feelings on this one, I appreciate the artistry but not loving it as a whole.

Future Boy - lots of nice touches musically. I quite like the change at 2 minutes, a nice unexpected change-up there and you create quite a mesmerizing float off into reverb world. very effective cut back into the main song. VOTE.

Future Proof Theories - there are bits that I can imagine being vocals on a Kraftwerk song. overall... well there's not much here to comment on.

Hostess Mostess - This is among my favorites. Strong vocals. I like the arrangement. Yeah, I like this one a lot. Cool choices on the instrumentation. VOTE.

JAN - Some really cool lyrics and some pretty interesting psychedelic sounds. Some of the lyrics I found a bit cringe though and overall the sound feels just a turn too ... much? But I get the feeling this is what you're going for so in that way it's effective.

Jon Porobil - This is a fun tune. Pretty catchy and I like most of the choices. I like the guitars a lot. This sounds like a very "classic" song. Very '70s? Some of the drums seem a bit sloppy maybe. The bit around 1:10 leading into the guitar solo is really cool. I like the guitar solo too. VOTE.

JP Nickolas - The guitarin' sounds like it's pretty good for the style. The vocals are the weakest link here. But the drums seem a bit flat/weak too. Maybe that's just part of the style though?

Ken's Super Duper... - This one kicks in real nice. Great groove. Maybe a *bit* low energy at times but that might be right for the laid back groove. Overall I quite like this one and it's getting a VOTE.

Lichen Throat - I like what you're doing with some of the music, a lot less harsh than I remember from your stuff. all sounds a bit more "natural" while still being ... very much not natural. I think this is definite a progression. and ... quite interesting really. I mean, I will say nothing else sounds like Lichen Throat. vocals have more rhythm too. nice!

luntar - 1:15 I like very much. short song gang! this one has a lot of energy. some great instrumentin'. I like it. seems a bit tongue in cheek or something but .. fun. like Ween's country album? VOTE.

Night Sky - At its best it reminds me vaguely of Brian Eno's '70s stuff (before he got into the ambient music.) Mostly in the vocals. The music isn't bad, but not.... I don't love it. Overall this goes into "not bad" category for me.

Paco del Stinko - nice whisperin'. I keep waiting for this thing to explode into some kind of Paco pyrotechnics, but it stays in first gear, your stuff usually manages to surprise me and this time it surprised me by not doing the big explosion I guess? I do like the e-bow (?) guitar solo towards the end. nice moody piece but doesn't really grab me.

The Pannacotta Army - this is good. I like mix a lot. sounds really good. strong vocals. inventive arrangement. tasty synths. love the little solo near 2:40. definitely one of the better songs imo. VOTE.

Phlebia - absolutely bonkers. great insane drums. I remember thinking some of your stuff sounds like atari teenage riot. this sounds like atari teenage riot if they used real instruments instead of going the techno route. which I guess sounds like something else I'm sure, but not something I listen to so that's my weird reference point. overall this overcomes some of my genre bias against "heavy" type music - this is a lot heavier than stuff I usually listen to, but you make it interesting sounding. VOTE.

Pigfarmer Jr - great little guitar breaks. tasty stuff. sounds pretty good. haven't listened to one of your songs in a while and this seems like a big improvement in the production / mix area (from what I remember.) VOTE.

seemanski - this is good but it's not quite my thing for some reason or another (I know, that's really helpful?). still, you deserve a vote because it's well done. VOTE.

Sweeney Toad - I found this one a bit difficult to listen to but luckily it was only 1 minute 8 seconds long. I do like the line "I am Scarlett Johansson" I feel that. And the flute sound towards the end is pretty cool.

Third Cat - mine sounds really quiet after Sweeney Toad. y'all gotta stop hammering your masters. or I guess I'm gonna have to start. I use that loudness penalty plugin and this thing is actually loud enough to get turned down on the streaming services so I don't think I'm under doing it. eh. I guess I have to stop being so precious and just slam the motherflipper. gonna make some ears bleed next time!

Tim Hinkle - I appreciate the ambition but ... there's a lot going on here and it's quite long. I like some bits of this (the more laid back part) quite a bit more than other parts. I like when your voice goes high on "disembodied voice."

[ken]

Number two: you have a strong tendency in your vocals of smearing the pitches, i.e. at the start of the note you need some time to "warm up" to the right pitch. This is partially due to technique, but it's also habit. Simply by doing some occasional practicing hitting notes faster (without trying too hard, of course), you can do a lot to change that, to the point where it will be more of a conscious decision to smear pitches and not do it just because it's what you always do.

I know I’m not even in this fight, but this is something I tend to do as well and I’ve been trying to figure out I’m how to not. If anyone’s got any more specific advice or exercises, I would greatly appreciate it.

I find that figuring out the vocal melody on a keyboard or guitar gives me a better sense of the pitches I want to sing. I sometimes will hold the starting note before I need to sing to make sure that pitch is in my ear/mind before I start singing.

[the panna cotta army]

I will claim your song was a disjointed, indulgent mess.

Thanks. Glad you changed your mind about reviewing my song.

Just one person's opinion but maybe put the review in perspective

Ah but not just any one person; a person who makes superbly crafted music of quality that is admired by so many! I will therefore give it the perspective it deserves.

(seriously, Reeves and Mortimer references?)

You're seriously saying "seriously" in that supercilious, condescending, toff manner?
Reeves and Mortimer a bit too plebeian and low-brow for you?

[j$]

No, just about 20 years out of date. Much like your song, which has proved you didn't deserve the singling out. I would politely ask you to please take the time to understand overall criticism over before you weigh in on personal criticism again.

Also success does not have to be measured by popularity, as you are proving perfectly in reverse without me saying anything.

[Evermind]

Evermind - long intro which I don't think does quite enough to draw me into the atmosphere. vocals are interestingly dry... not sure if it's a good choice but it is interesting. I have mixed feelings on this one, I appreciate the artistry but not loving it as a whole.

I'm glad someone noticed this. I usually like to put a little reverb on my vocals, and even did so in an earlier version of the mix, but toggling the bypass switch I just liked the dry version better. The take is pretty raw, all I put on it was a little compression and a noise gate.

Thank you for the review!

[mholland]

Number two: you have a strong tendency in your vocals of smearing the pitches, i.e. at the start of the note you need some time to "warm up" to the right pitch. This is partially due to technique, but it's also habit. Simply by doing some occasional practicing hitting notes faster (without trying too hard, of course), you can do a lot to change that, to the point where it will be more of a conscious decision to smear pitches and not do it just because it's what you always do.

I know I’m not even in this fight, but this is something I tend to do as well and I’ve been trying to figure out how to not. If anyone’s got any more specific advice or exercises, I would greatly appreciate it.

I do this, too. The best exercise I know for this is to sing scales or arpeggios starting in a comfortable range and move up chromatically until I start hearing or feeling the slide up to the target pitch. E.g., sing a C major chord up to the octave and back down on a repeating syllable, then C# major, D major, etc. It seems to happen more on the higher notes when I don’t start with enough support and have to add tension to reach the pitch. It helps to have an honest third party like a teacher listening, or to record yourself and listen back to it. I don’t do this nearly enough myself, which is probably why I’m a pretty inconsistent and eternally intermediate singer.

[Jefff]

If you think folks should strive not to take reviews as personal attacks (and I do think that) then you should probably treat the songs themselves the same way.

Also, this vocal advice is great. I've struggled with the same thing over the years. I've mostly done what Ken says, but I might try mholland's suggestion.

[mholland]

Also, this vocal advice is great. I've struggled with the same thing over the years. I've mostly done what Ken says, but I might try mholland's suggestion.

It’s also good to combine Ken’s advice with mine, i.e., record those arpeggios on piano or some other stable pitch reference and sing along with them for practice.