Racist Slurs, Dealing With Hecklers, etc.

Links and other hanky panky that doesn't have to do with anything in particular.
Lord of Oats
Niemöller
Posts: 1194
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:35 pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida

Racist Slurs, Dealing With Hecklers, etc.

Post by Lord of Oats »

erik wrote:
Lord of Oats wrote:He makes a good point, though. Towel head isn't racist; anyone can wear a towel.
Anyone can jockey a camel. Anyone can chuck a spear. Anyone can get their back wet. Start another thread if you want to illogically defend racial slurs.
I didn't want to start a new thread, but I was asked to, I know a lot of people don't want so much off-topicity, and I suppose there's a lot to say here.

Here are some thoughts.

I'm not racist. I don't walk around spewing out this sort of garbage. He's probably a racist, but towel head is not intrinsically racist. It's hardly a slur. It's a silly way to look at an adaptation to climate. It really has very little to do with race, though, because it's such a widespread practice in places outside the West. Xenophobic and jingoistic? Sure. Racist? Not really. Basically, people using it generally aren't educated enough to properly be racist. But if I were to say it, which I very likely wouldn't, as it would imply that I were some bigoted American retard, I certainly wouldn't mean it the same way as they would. There's a big difference between me going, "Hehe, isn't it funny how other peoples' cultures are different?" and these folks that are all, "Fuck those motherfuckers blowing up our buildings and shit." Not that the people who are blowing up our buildings don't deserved to be fucked. The problem is when you say that, and you somehow mean half the globe. I suppose ignorance is a large contributing factor, as always.

I usually get upset when I hear these kinds of things, myself. But it's all in how you mean it. Do I question the intent of the fellow making the argument? Yes. But it doesn't make his argument less valid. Towel head isn't racist. It's an ignorant cry for help. Headwear is such a ridiculous thing to make fun of, it shouldn't be offensive. If nothing else, it sounds cool. It's got a nice ring to it. I love hats of any kind. I have the utmost respect for turbans. I wish I had one. But let's be realistic. It is a towel. I don't see the problem there. I love towels. Shouting, "It's not a towel!" forty fricking times makes you sound like a dumb whore. I find interrupting an artist at work a lot more disrespectful than using generalized, non-vulgar gestures to describe people. Assaulting an artist at work, no matter how bad he is at what he does, or how much you dislike him as a person, takes it a step further.

Towel head is a neutral thing, despite what I think about it sounding cool. It's meant negatively, but it's really ridiculous that it can be used that way. Camel-jockey is even worse. I wish I could ride camels. In fact, I hope to, someday. It should be a point of pride, not an insult. But I guess I can't expect most of the populace to have the same respect for Arab culture that I do. I always thought spear-chucker was a little beyond ridiculous, and I suppose the other ones are, too, if we're trying to use any of them to refer to participants in mainstream American society. I guess the turban is the only thing that really holds up, and probably only for Sikhs, who are required to wear it as a religious thing, and, well, they're not the same thing as Arab Muslims, are they? Yeah, I don't know, as if everything from the Arabian peninsula to the Indian subcontinent were just one big mass of terrorist lunatics. What a bunch of fucking idiots we are. I guess I can see why we get upset with each other like this.

But to sum up. Asshole guy has a point, but he really looks like an idiot when all he can say is, "CUNT!" So, he's probably an idiot. Hecklers need to lay off, especially such self-righteous ones. And storming the stage?! People should fucking calm down. Basically, everyone should strive to have more respect for others. A lack of respect for people, their cultures, and their opinions is responsible for all of the problems in the video, which are further aggravated by an all-around failure to think critically.
"81 songs and 569 posts in 4 months. You don't mess around when it comes to messing around." - fluffy
User avatar
bz£
Orwell
Posts: 946
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:50 am
Location: boston ma

Post by bz£ »

If millions of people find a phrase insulting, then you should probably consider the possibility that it is insulting. You may, if you wish, insult an entire culture on the basis of race and then call it something other than racism, but be well aware that many will disagree with your choice of term.

From a purely practical standpoint (and one of personal safety in some situations), it is not a good idea to tell someone "you're a wetback and that's cool with me" or "you're a towelhead and I think wearing a turban is a swell fashion statement." If you do think that sort of thing, you would be wise to keep such thoughts private.
User avatar
Spud
Roosevelt
Posts: 4797
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:25 am
Instruments: Bass, Keyboards, eHorn
Submitting as: Octothorpe
Pronouns: he/him
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Re: Racist Slurs, Dealing With Hecklers, etc.

Post by Spud »

Lord of Oats wrote:stuff
Wow, LOA, you construct an argument the way I play pick-up-sticks.
"I only listen to good music. And Octothorpe." - Marcus Kellis
Song Fight! The Rockening
User avatar
Reist
Roosevelt
Posts: 3066
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:26 pm
Instruments: Drums, Guitar
Recording Method: Yamaha AW1600, Reaper
Submitting as: Therman
Location: Calgary
Contact:

Post by Reist »

I guess I'm just naive ... what is towel head? A turban?
User avatar
jack
Roosevelt
Posts: 3864
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:41 am
Recording Method: ProTools, Logic, Garageband
Submitting as: brody, Jack Shite, Johnny in the Corner, Bloody Hams, lots more
Location: santa cruz, ca.

Post by jack »

man, you wrote all that bullshit and you could have been reviewing songs?

get your priorities in order.
User avatar
Spud
Roosevelt
Posts: 4797
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:25 am
Instruments: Bass, Keyboards, eHorn
Submitting as: Octothorpe
Pronouns: he/him
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Post by Spud »

Reïst wrote:I guess I'm just naive ... what is towel head? A turban?
I'm guessing that your browser blocks google... (?)
"I only listen to good music. And Octothorpe." - Marcus Kellis
Song Fight! The Rockening
User avatar
mkilly
Niemöller
Posts: 1229
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:22 am
Instruments: guitar
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Post by mkilly »

bz£ wrote:If millions of people find a phrase insulting, then you should probably consider the possibility that it is insulting. You may, if you wish, insult an entire culture on the basis of race and then call it something other than racism, but be well aware that many will disagree with your choice of term.
Yeah, and on the flip side of that, words are defined by usage. This particular turn of phrase is usually used by assholes, often xenophobic or straight-up racist ones.
"It is really true what philosophy tells us, that life must be understood backwards. But with this, one forgets the second proposition, that it must be lived forwards." Søren Kierkegaard
User avatar
erik
Churchill
Posts: 2341
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:06 am
Submitting as: 15-16 puzzle
Location: Austin
Contact:

Re: Racist Slurs, Dealing With Hecklers, etc.

Post by erik »

Lord of Oats wrote:Do I question the intent of the fellow making the argument? Yes. But it doesn't make his argument less valid. Towel head isn't racist. It's an ignorant cry for help. Headwear is such a ridiculous thing to make fun of, it shouldn't be offensive.
The word is not used to poke fun at the hat choices that people make, it's used to insult and belittle entire cultures that wear turbans. Not just their hats, but everything about them. That's how racial slurs work. To say that something shouldn't be offensive because it's a phrase made up of innocent words shows a great amount of ignorance on how language works.
User avatar
Caravan Ray
bono
bono
Posts: 8745
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:51 pm
Instruments: Penis
Recording Method: Garageband
Submitting as: Caravan Ray,G.O.R.T.E.C,Lyricburglar,The Thugs from the Scallop Industry
Location: Toowoomba, Queensland
Contact:

Post by Caravan Ray »

It's like how "wankel rotary engine" sounds rude, but it isn't.
User avatar
roymond
Ibárruri
Posts: 5263
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:42 pm
Instruments: Guitars, Bass, Vocals, Logic
Recording Method: Logic X, MacBookPro, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2
Submitting as: roymond, Dangerous Croutons, Intentionally Left Bank, Moody Vermin, The Reverend
Pronouns: he/him
Location: brooklyn
Contact:

Re: Racist Slurs, Dealing With Hecklers, etc.

Post by roymond »

Lord of Oats wrote:Basically, people using it generally aren't educated enough to properly be racist.
Racism requires no education, nor is it limited by it. A main ingredient of racism is ignorance, of which you have an abundance.
roymond.com | songfights | covers
"Any more chromaticism and you'll have to change your last name to Wagner!" - Frankie Big Face
anti-m
Niemöller
Posts: 1160
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:00 pm
Submitting as: Anti-m, Jeplexe
Location: PDX
Contact:

Post by anti-m »

Actually, on second thought, I'm not going to post to this thread.
User avatar
fluffy
Eisenhower
Posts: 11267
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:56 am
Instruments: sometimes
Recording Method: Logic Pro X
Submitting as: Sockpuppet
Pronouns: she/they
Location: Seattle-ish
Contact:

Post by fluffy »

But you did, you rain-sponge.
User avatar
JonPorobil
Ibárruri
Posts: 5682
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:45 am
Instruments: Piano, Guitar, Harmonica, Mandolin, Accordion, Bass, lots of VSTs
Recording Method: Cubase 10.5
Submitting as: Jon Eric, Jon Porobil, others
Pronouns: He/Him
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact:

Post by JonPorobil »

The name of the country Niger is neutral. Adding another "g" in the middle makes it not so. Why? Because there's a lot of people out there who get offended by that word. Should they be? Probably not; it's just a word, and the only reason it offends them is because they're willing to let one word offend them. But the fact of the matter is, people get offended, therefore the word is offensive.

The words "Towel" and "Head" are both neutral. Combining them makes them not so. Should this be so? You can be idealistic about it and say "Of course not, a turban [which is NOT a towel, by the way] is a great fashion statement," but it doesn't change the fact that there's an enormous population that gets offended when you call someone a "Towelhead." And that makes it an offensive term.

Language becomes offensive when people get offended, not the other way around, and if you're not sensitive to that, then one day someone is going to punch you in the face, and you'll have deserved it.
"Warren Zevon would be proud." -Reve Mosquito

Stages, an album of about dealing with loss, anxiety, and grieving a difficult year, now available on Bandcamp and all streaming platforms! https://jonporobil.bandcamp.com/album/stages
User avatar
fluffy
Eisenhower
Posts: 11267
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:56 am
Instruments: sometimes
Recording Method: Logic Pro X
Submitting as: Sockpuppet
Pronouns: she/they
Location: Seattle-ish
Contact:

Post by fluffy »

The breeder has a point. (What a cracker.)
Hoblit
Roosevelt
Posts: 3719
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:48 pm
Pronouns: Dude or GURRRLLLL!
Location: Charlotte, NC ... A big city on its first day at the new job.
Contact:

Post by Hoblit »

As a cracker that is also a direct descendant of sand niggers, I find that the ignorance to the term "towel head" unacceptable coming from some honkey I have never met.

Go back to Europe shorty!

*pours some of his 40oz to the curb for his fallen brothers.

<font size="1">The above is an illustration of how ridiculous (and useless) I find this thread. I hope I offended everybody OK!</font>
User avatar
erik
Churchill
Posts: 2341
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:06 am
Submitting as: 15-16 puzzle
Location: Austin
Contact:

Post by erik »

What do you know, you have sex with your sister.
User avatar
fluffy
Eisenhower
Posts: 11267
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:56 am
Instruments: sometimes
Recording Method: Logic Pro X
Submitting as: Sockpuppet
Pronouns: she/they
Location: Seattle-ish
Contact:

Post by fluffy »

At least he's not queer.
User avatar
Adam!
Niemöller
Posts: 1434
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:10 am
Instruments: Drum 'n' Bass (but not THAT Drum 'n' Bass)
Recording Method: Reaper + Stock Plugins
Submitting as: Max Bombast
Pronouns: he/him
Location: Victoria, BC, AwesomeLand
Contact:

Post by Adam! »

Racism is not a laughing matter, unless it's white-on-white racism.

This guy apparently went to the Micheal Richards School of Stand-up Comedy. That said, a believe that an exchange of words (excluding credible threats) can never justify physical violence. However, I am not so naive as to assume other people share my views. This last step is important, as it keeps you from getting punched in the face or thrown in a Sudanese prison.
User avatar
Caravan Ray
bono
bono
Posts: 8745
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:51 pm
Instruments: Penis
Recording Method: Garageband
Submitting as: Caravan Ray,G.O.R.T.E.C,Lyricburglar,The Thugs from the Scallop Industry
Location: Toowoomba, Queensland
Contact:

Post by Caravan Ray »

Adam! wrote:Racism is not a laughing matter, unless it's white-on-white racism.
Yes. It is perfectly acceptable to make fun of:
1. The English (especially their cricket team and Royal family)
2. New Zealanders (baaaaaa...)
3. Nickleback, Bryan Adams and other Canadian musical atrocities.

(NB: It is obviously also OK to make fun of Americans, but that can be fairly pointless because they tend not to get it anyway. And they are often heavily armed)
User avatar
Adam!
Niemöller
Posts: 1434
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:10 am
Instruments: Drum 'n' Bass (but not THAT Drum 'n' Bass)
Recording Method: Reaper + Stock Plugins
Submitting as: Max Bombast
Pronouns: he/him
Location: Victoria, BC, AwesomeLand
Contact:

Post by Adam! »

Caravan Ray wrote:Nickleback, Bryan Adams and other Canadian musical atrocities.
If you continue to use these offensive stereotypes when referring to my people I will be forced to put on my toque, grab my hockey stick (which I use to fight my way through all the polar bears and potheads) and trudge down to the mailbox to fire off a polite but stern letter to my Member of Parliament.
jimtyrrell
Churchill
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:43 pm
Instruments: Guitar/bass/keys
Recording Method: Various. Mostly Garageband these days, actually.
Submitting as: Jim Tyrrell
Location: New Hampshire
Contact:

Post by jimtyrrell »

Caravan Ray wrote:(NB: It is obviously also OK to make fun of Americans, but that can be fairly pointless because they tend not to get it anyway. And they are often heavily armed)
What are you saying?
Hoblit
Roosevelt
Posts: 3719
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:48 pm
Pronouns: Dude or GURRRLLLL!
Location: Charlotte, NC ... A big city on its first day at the new job.
Contact:

Post by Hoblit »

fluffy wrote:At least he's not queer.
Adam! wrote:
Caravan Ray wrote:Nickleback, Bryan Adams and other Canadian musical atrocities.
If you continue to use these offensive stereotypes when referring to my people I will be forced to put on my toque, grab my hockey stick (which I use to fight my way through all the polar bears and potheads) and trudge down to the mailbox to fire off a polite but stern letter to my Member of Parliament.
EXACTLY!

(LAUGHING MAO)
Last edited by Hoblit on Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
Post Reply