January 14th, 2008

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:54 am

Another day, another dollar... we're all back to our normal mundane full week schedules with no relief in the near future. I'm incredibly sad for some reason today. I've got the blues but don't really have a real reason to be. My cousin got dumped over the holidays and we hung out on Saturday night and got wasted. Blew a bunch of money that I don't have but she really needed it. They were engaged and had been going out for almost 3 years.

However, I'm not sure thats why I have this 'sad' feeling. I used to have these 'black days' a lot when I was younger, but this isn't nearly as intense as those particular days. (Those came sprinkled with irrational hate and anger as well as the sadness) I'm usually quite even or sometimes pretty chipper, but today... dunno. Bleh.

Anyways, VZ's Netway ticket site is been up and down and thats really not helping either. (I have to put in tickets to VZ if something is wrong with a DSL circuit through them)

QOTD: Do you have anxiety ridden black days too?

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:15 am

qotd: yes

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:56 am

yeah, i get those too. less often than i used to. various things get me down, or nothing gets me down, or the weather, or whatever... yeah.
bad news about your cousin.
-bill

Billy's Little Trip · Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:27 am

QOTD: Yes, but I've become pretty good at avoiding situations that freak me out. I suppose I should hit them head on and just power through them, which I quite often do. But certain days I just don't want to deal with it.

king_arthur · Post by **king_arthur** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:20 pm

DRC: just got back from the Barrett-Jackson auto auction, a friend and I went up to just take pictures of some of the cars and hang out. Fender (whose offices are in Scottsdale) had a booth set up where they were showing off their new amplifier, which has a "jamalong" feature built in where it plays a bass, drums and rhythm guitar bit for you to jam along with. Since the auction doesn't really pick up 'til later in the week, I was able to get right in there and play for a while. They had a laptop with Garageband on it and were recording each person, and then would write your song as an .mp3 off to a free USB drive. Also since it was early in the week, I got to play for about ten minutes and should be able to edit it down to five or six minutes of fairly competent playing

Anyway... fun...

QotD: I've had a lot of unhappy days the past few years, but it seems like things are finally getting sorta better... the pressure to go get a job is off for a while, and I'm just making a point of spending last week and this week doing things I want to do... feeling much better about life.

I did get my "Mobile Home House Party" song sent in this morning and also cooked up some cover art using an old photo of the relatives... and sometime this week, I'm gonna do some reviews. Really...

Charles (KA)

JonPorobil · Post by **JonPorobil** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:59 pm

DRC: My first day of classes of my last semester in college was today. I only had one class, and it was good one (my schedule is insane this semester; I get one class on Mondays, two on Tuesdays, one on Thursdays, and Wednesdays and Fridays off). Then I ran some menial errands like getting the oil in my car changed, and socialized with people in the bookstore. Oh, and then I recorded my "Mobile Home House Party." I wanted to actually use that real organ I got a while back, but I didn't feel like lugging my whole setup over to the building where we're keeping it for now, so maybe some other time.

QotD: Indeed I do. In fact, I'm just coming out of a long string of them. I used to think I was an undiagnosed manic-depressive, but then I realized that most people have days where they're sad and/or depressed for no reason. Last semester, I was pretty useless, hence this delirious all-night documented starting here: http://songfight.net/forums/viewtopic.p ... 327#103327

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:15 am

Generic wrote: QotD: Indeed I do. In fact, I'm just coming out of a long string of them. I used to think I was an undiagnosed manic-depressive, but then I realized that most people have days where they're sad and/or depressed for no reason.

Not all depression is 'manic'. Clinical depression is a very common and generally very treatable disease. I suppose a lot of people may have days where they're sad and/or depressed for no reason, but 'long strings of them' may be something that could benefit from treatment.

I don't have 'anxiety-ridden black days' - but I think I know exactly what you mean by it. Over the past 20 or so years I've become quite familiar with clinical depression, though I don't suffer from it myself. I don't claim to know what depression feels like, but what I have learnt over time is that is a very real disease and more common than most people realise. And just like other common, but debilitating diseases like asthma or diabetes or myopia - it isn't something you can just "snap out of".

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:22 am

Generic wrote: I wanted to actually use that real organ I got a while back....

Oh, you get those emails too! Did you go for the surgical implants or the pneumatic pump thingy?

drë · Post by **drë** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 am

QOTD: I will also add to what Mr Ray said that I believe depression like any other disease has a sociological aspect to it.
Attitudes are contagious, and how do you know what depression is, if you don’t learn it from some one else?

As you start developing strong friendships and relationships you start to understand sympathy, opening your mind to the feelings of others.
Yes its 100% natural for humans to feel depress/ blue at times, but studying the situation that got you that mind set in the first place, can help to avoid it in the future.
Boredom also plays a factor. It’s been proven that people that can keep themselves amuse to avoid boredom don’t get down as much as people that are more susceptible to boredom.

Personally am always been a very tranquil, easy going guy.
It was not till a couple of years ago when I hit my mid 20s and started meeting more and more people with different walks of life, that I had to start putting up different states of mind.

How can you have sympathy for other, while keeping your own sane mind?

Am not a doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once!

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:49 am

dre wrote:Attitudes are contagious, and how do you know what depression is, if you don’t learn it from some one else?

In clinical depression, chemistry causes attitude, not the other way around. Don't confuse correlation with causation. There is no single "natural mood" for you to be in; the brain is very complex and so many factors can lead to the way you feel right now.

What I mean to say is, telling someone "cheer up and don't be depressed" is somewhat like telling an amputee "cheer up and grow your leg back," or maybe a bit more reasonably "cheer up and don't have asthma." It doesn't work that way. Some people can take a few days to recover from whatever factor caused a serotonin drop (which is a normal part of coping with all sorts of things, notably physical and mental stress), while others need actual medication to help the brain produce and retain more serotonin. Different people have different baseline levels and so on.

I am not a doctor either, but I have been to a psychologist for various issues in the past, which is a bit more useful than parroting retarded advertising slogans.

drë · Post by **drë** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:07 am

fluffy wrote:I am not a doctor either, but I have been to a psychologist for various issues in the past, which is a bit more useful than parroting retarded advertising slogans.

Easy there tiger! “Cheer up don’t be an ass”

All I was trying to say was that maybe mixing with the right or wrong crowd also has an effect on your mood.
A statement probably irrelevant and way off topic, but hey that’s me.

Your bringing me down fluffy, your bringing me down.

Lord of Oats · Post by **Lord of Oats** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:12 am

fluffy wrote:In clinical depression, chemistry causes attitude, not the other way around. Don't confuse correlation with causation.

You know, I thought I was afflicted until just now. I feel like you're robbing my depression of its clincality. But maybe I don't want it to be clinical, anyway. I don't think I need medication. I think I need emotional support. I don't suppose that my brain chemistry is so fucked that I can never be happy. But I think my situation needs to be different than it is currently for that to occur. I think it usually basically stems from feelings of loneliness, which are further irritated when there's no support. It may not even be the root cause...the lack of support could just allow small problems to affect me more greatly than they should, until that cycle has started. So what is it, then? Environmental depression?

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:24 am

I don't know. Maybe you should see a psychologist?

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:26 am

Not to harp on my buddy Dre...but at the same time not jumping too loudly onto Fluffy's bandwagon:

I find that if I listen to music 'to cheer me up' that it has a really adverse affect. Listening to music that is not appropriate for my mood only adds anger into the mix. I start to get irrational about things and I start to spiral even worse than I was before. Playing They Might Be Giants when I'm depressed makes me HATE They Might Be Giants which leads to hating my apartment then hating everything in the fridge. (You think I'm kidding)

The very same thing happens if I start trying to be sociable when I shouldn't be and this results in the irrational hate towards actual people. Then it gets REAL ugly. Luckily, I've learned this about myself and have learned how to avoid these types of situations.

I agree though, in general, if you hang out with positive people... there is some affect in not totally going over the deep end whenever you get that early twinge of depression. I do in fact try to stay busy just to not let the spooks into my head. Applying the 'idle hands' phrase to my brain activity.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:29 am

I also want to thank everybody for their thoughtful answers.

I wrote a song this morning (while waiting for the plumbers) and it was a great outlet. I feel a lot better... but I have this lingering feeling like... a reflection on a relationship about a year after the break up. But while it's kind of a moody thing, it's not entirely bad... like the leftover feeling you get after you wake of from a dream in which you had found love.

Lord of Oats · Post by **Lord of Oats** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:32 am

Eh, I don't think I could afford it. I think I'll wait for things to work themselves out. By that, I mean that I will work toward my goals and see if things turn out the way I want them to. Obviously, a passive route...isn't really much of a route, is it?

anti-m · Post by **anti-m** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:58 am

Just a tip for folks considering professional help -- You may want to consider a psychiatrist in lieu of a psychologist -- simply because the M.D. can write a scrip for meds if s/he determines it to be a good idea.

A psychologist can't write scrips, but CAN refer you to a psychiatrist who can.

And yes, SOME people most certainly need meds. But even those who need meds are usually not helped by meds alone.

Many insurance will policies cover psychologists and psychiatrists -- but even if you're uninsured, many towns have low-income / pro-bono assistance programs available.

Just my 2 cents. Carry on!

QOTD: Indeedy!

Lord of Oats · Post by **Lord of Oats** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:59 am

When you are depressed, I think you have to just wait the cycle out a little bit until you can get back on track. So you can keep working, or you can sit and wait. It's up to you. It'll suck either way. I had a prolific songwriting period when I was feeling the worst, and the although the average quality may have suffered a little, the best pieces were as good as the best ones from when I felt alright. (Dre is right about the connection between boredom and depression; there's also a big connection between boredom and songwriting. If we apply the transitive property, this should make a lot of sense.)

Anyway, the point is, you can't necessarily do anything to make it go away faster. Like you said, you can set up your environment to make it less likely to happen, but you can't fix it by creating a positive environment. Positive music should not help you. It won't make you feel good. It will make you contemptuous and jealous of the band that has those feelings instead of you. Positive music is for reinforcing positive feelings that are already there. Trying to superimpose positivity on your depression is an insult to the integrity of your feelings. They're legitimate, and need to be dealt with. Sometimes, you may just have to go through a period where you cry on your bed and listen to the Cure. But you would never tell anyone this. So maybe that's part of the problem. Depression and anxiety suck while you have to deal with them, but they're totally okay and normal to have. Maybe you need medication, maybe a proper diet, maybe your life just sucks and you need to change your circumstances. But I think it can happen for none of those reasons and does frequently.

Which I think is fairly consistent with what we've said.

Lord of Oats · Post by **Lord of Oats** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:05 am

Jeez, people keep posting and making my posts not follow the previous posts properly. Everyone must love psychiatric problems. I guess I should be using quoting. OH WELL. I HOPE MY STUFF STILL MAKES SENSE IN CONTEXT.

CALM THE FUCK DOWN, OATS. GO TO BED.

erik · Post by **erik** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:10 am

Everyone I've ever known who described themselves as "depressed" was really just being a bored whiny emo kid. Everyone I've ever known who was actually depressed had to first have someone else tell them that they were depressed, because they really had no idea.

It's like someone who loves to curse saying they have Tourettes. Being sad from time to time is not the same thing as being depressed.

Lord of Oats · Post by **Lord of Oats** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:17 am

I seriously doubt that it's intentional, but you have this miraculous ability to spoil my mood when you post.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:21 am

erik wrote:Everyone I've ever known who described themselves as "depressed" ....

I'm going to take the first part of that sentence as a disclaimer. Otherwise your statement would suggest that nobody could tell if they were ACTUALLY depressed and would only be CLAIMING so for attention. So I'd like to believe that you only made the statement based on people YOU'VE known.