How to rock?

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:57 am

Wow, all this time I thought I would be ridiculed for actually liking <strike>to</strike> Jack Johnson.

Mostess · Post by **Mostess** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:01 am

This is all awesome feedback.

I didn't really expect much from this thread. Just some banter about whether band X rocks or sux. But even that would be kind of interesting. I'm not so much interested as rocking more, though that would be fun to try, as I am interested in what "rocking" really is.

Anti-M asks if I like rock. Nope. Never have. Like Reggae and R&B, I don't understand real middle-of-the-genre Rock. I'm not sure how much juice is left to squeeze out of those lemons. My dad's old Chuck Berry 45s still sound good to me, but even when I was a kid, I liked his Lonnie Mack collection more interesting. That guy was Rock only by default: a pop artist in a rock-n-roll market. Then of course I found his one Fred Lerdahl record and I went to musical outer space and can never come home again. Later he told me that had been a joke gift from one of his college buddies. Oops.

But it seems (like the wheelchair violinist mentioned above) "rock" is not confined to the genre of Rock. Bartok's 5th string quartet rocks. I even know when an academic paper "rocks." My emergin theory is that it has something to do with balls, commitment, pith, and being correct all at the same time. But those 4 things have to be audible, which is hard. Which is probably why live music rocks harder than recorded music: you can see as well as hear the balls and commitment.

So the take home for me so far is:
1) Tight timing (especially a low-frequency pulse) that can be proven with stop-on-a-dime breaks and changes: this is sonic evidence of balls and commitment
2) Loud drums, which probably just make #1 more salient
3) Something dirty/fuzzy/distorted, which also proves balls, but not too much, which is an interesting point. Maybe clean sounds make the dirty sounds dirtier?
4) Simple music/lyrics, which speaks to pith, and also to being correct.
5) Actually feeling the rock while playing the rock, which is being correct again

All very cool. Though 5 is a stumper. I have no doubt some audiences have been fooled by deft performers into feeling unrequited rock. That's the nature of performance. What am I missing?

Rabid Garfunkel · Post by **Rabid Garfunkel** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:09 am

Irreverence?

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:57 am

Caravan Ray wrote:1. Remember light & shade
2. Sing about sex or death
3. Assume the persona of a criminal, a seducer or an elven warrior. Preferably all three.
4. Ask "What would Jack Johnson do?" and do the opposite.
5. Burn an effigy of Phil Collins
6. Get drunk (that probably should be listed higher)

- WWJJD

Billy's Little Trip · Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:13 am

Rabid Garfunkel wrote:Irreverence?
see: Spinal Tap
also: Mock-n-Roll

Good pic Rabz.

jimtyrrell · Post by **jimtyrrell** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:54 am

So Madonna was just enshrined in the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame. Apparently, there's another way to rock: you can get an honorary degree in it if you're successful enough in other areas.

I mean, she's done songs that were good for what they were. Borderline comes to mind. But she has never, in my opinion, rocked. Can someone point to an example, perhaps?

(Not that the Hall of Fame is the ideal litmus test, mind you. But still.)

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:31 am

jimtyrrell wrote:So Madonna was just enshrined in the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame. Apparently, there's another way to rock: you can get an honorary degree in it if you're successful enough in other areas.

I mean, she's done songs that were good for what they were. Borderline comes to mind. But she has never, in my opinion, rocked. Can someone point to an example, perhaps?

(Not that the Hall of Fame is the ideal litmus test, mind you. But still.)

Act of Contrition and Like a Prayer both rock in my world.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:15 am

jimtyrrell wrote:So Madonna was just enshrined in the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame. Apparently, there's another way to rock: you can get an honorary degree in it if you're successful enough in other areas.

I mean, she's done songs that were good for what they were. Borderline comes to mind. But she has never, in my opinion, rocked. Can someone point to an example, perhaps?

(Not that the Hall of Fame is the ideal litmus test, mind you. But still.)

I'm more comfortable with Madonna being in a Rock And Roll Hall of Fame than her fellow inductee of this year, John Mellencamp. WTF!?!! Johnny Cougar Mellencamp!?!?!

...and looking at other names on that august list:
http://www.rockhall.com/inductees/inductee-list/

Billy bloody Joel!?!?!
Bob freaking Seger?
Steely fucking Dan?!?!
James Christ-on-a-Bike Taylor
Aerosmith!?!?! The Eagles!?!?!
aaaaarrrrrghhhh!!!!!

Who writes this crap?
Who will next year be? Phil Collins and Jack Johnson? Rone Rivendale?!?!

Billy's Little Trip · Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:05 am

Caravan Ray wrote: I'm more comfortable with Madonna being in a Rock And Roll Hall of Fame than her fellow inductee of this year, John Mellencamp. WTF!?!! Johnny Cougar Mellencamp!?!?!

...and looking at other names on that august list:
http://www.rockhall.com/inductees/inductee-list/

Billy bloody Joel!?!?!
Bob freaking Seger?
Steely fucking Dan?!?!
James Christ-on-a-Bike Taylor
Aerosmith!?!?! The Eagles!?!?!
aaaaarrrrrghhhh!!!!!

Who writes this crap?
Who will next year be? Phil Collins and Jack Johnson? Rone Rivendale?!?!

All of those bands rock, roo boy. Madonna is pop as far as I'm concerned, so yes, Rone could be next. One of his songs is in a movie for Christ sake.

If Rone gets enough popularity, they'll have himon the Flintstones. His name will be Stone Rivenrock.

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:06 am

Caravan Ray wrote:Who will next year be? Phil Collins and Jack Johnson? Rone Rivendale?!?!

Roymond. And the lessons begin today sometime after 9:59 am PST.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:23 am

should be 'music hall of fame at this point'

Billy's Little Trip · Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:09 am

Should be "how well they brainwashed the American listeners" hall of ehhh, I've heard worse.

Rabid Garfunkel · Post by **Rabid Garfunkel** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:50 am

Billy's Little Trip wrote:Good pic Rabz.

Teh Rock has a history with #, among others here. I was merely its handler/roadie for a show, and as such, was able to catch it in an unguarded moment, relaxing in the green room at a long ago Octothorpe & Friends show. Heh.

Octofest Festival
The Main Octofest thread (j$'s links are broken, use above)
The back story of the festival

Billy's Little Trip · Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:14 pm

Rabid Garfunkel wrote:
Billy's Little Trip wrote:Good pic Rabz.
Teh Rock has a history with #, among others here. I was merely its handler/roadie for a show, and as such, was able to catch it in an unguarded moment, relaxing in the green room at a long ago Octothorpe & Friends show. Heh.

Octofest Festival
The Main Octofest thread (j$'s links are broken, use above)
The back story

Awesome! Thanks for sharing.

rone rivendale · Post by **rone rivendale** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:09 pm

I think you're all hung up on your own version of Rock. You don't have to be 'hard' to be Rock. Rock is a VERY wide range of music.

No doubt in my mind that John Melloncamp would be rock. He's one of the 80's best rockers as far as I'm concerned. And how in the hell is Aerosmith not rock? (that's directed at Ray who made that list)

Madonna is pop which is aka Pop Rock. Therefore it's Rock.

It's doesn't have to make you deaf to be Rock. It pretty much just has to have a guitar and drums in it (of course that's a pretty simplistic view).

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:11 pm

Rone Rivendale wrote: And how in the hell is Aerosmith not rock? (that's directed at Ray who made that list).

By being a pale, vapid copy of the Rolling Stones.

The Rolling Stones rock. Aerosmith are a tacky, plastic immitation of the real thing.

(oh - and sorry about name-checking you Rone. I actually think you do rock far more than Phil Collins or Jack Johnson)

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:56 pm

Rone Rivendale wrote:I think you're all hung up on your own version of Rock. You don't have to be 'hard' to be Rock. Rock is a VERY wide range of music.

Don't forget Yacht Rock

Reist · Post by **Reist** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:44 pm

Rone Rivendale wrote:It's doesn't have to make you deaf to be Rock. It pretty much just has to have a guitar and drums in it (of course that's a pretty simplistic view).

Yes, that's really simplistic. Don't you feel the ROCK in real rock? I've heard a lot of bands that bring no ROCK to the rock, and just the fact that they have a guitar and drums means nothing.

ps - does anyone else think these guys rock? At first glance they seem a lot like AC/DC, but I like them a lot more. And their lead singer actually ROCKs. You know what I mean.

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:00 pm

Reïst wrote:ps - does anyone else think these guys rock? At first glance they seem a lot like AC/DC, but I like them a lot more. And their lead singer actually ROCKs. You know what I mean.

Yeah, I can sense the rock. But that's mostly what I hate about rock. Brute force attitude rock doesn't cut it. But I understand the appeal.

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:33 pm

Reïst wrote:
Rone Rivendale wrote:It's doesn't have to make you deaf to be Rock. It pretty much just has to have a guitar and drums in it (of course that's a pretty simplistic view).
Yes, that's really simplistic. Don't you feel the ROCK in real rock? I've heard a lot of bands that bring no ROCK to the rock, and just the fact that they have a guitar and drums means nothing.

ps - does anyone else think these guys rock? At first glance they seem a lot like AC/DC, but I like them a lot more. And their lead singer actually ROCKs. You know what I mean.

Ha, not only are they playing my guitars, but the one guy has my natural wood Explorer, shweet! Ya, they rock, but the same kind of lyrics from the butt rock days.

I think JET has a sound a bit like AC/DC and they rock my ass off. But the best part is that they write good music.

Also, Wolfmother. I really like these guys. It's just nice seeing rock coming back. I'm so sick of pop musics.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:22 pm

Jet? Wolfmother? AC/DC?
Does "the rock" have a geographical component?

Märk · Post by **Märk** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:40 pm

Can't you see he's the man
Let me hear you applaud
He is more than 'the man'
He's a shiny golden god
If you think it's time to fuckin rock
And fuckin roll
Out of control
Well then you know you need to rock the block
And fuckin sock
My fuckin cock
Cuz when you rule
You know you school
All other fools
Out of their jewels
Cuz if you think it's time to
If you think it's time to
If you think it's time to fuckin roooooooocccckkkkk
He
Is going
To kick your fuckin ass
And
You know
His name is Kyle Gass
Rocking
And fuckin rolling
And fuckin rocking
And fucking rolling
And fuckin
blip bup biddle diddle (etc)