Nur Ein III Round One "Sleepwalking"

[erik]

Oh, sure. You can't please everyone. But my point isn't to say that someone should have these things already, but rather these are things that are worth thinking about.

[Spud]

I'd rather get thrown out for cheating than voted off. Saves some face. I mean, we've already got a songfight superband in the mix, and Octothorpe typically uses guest musicians. It's part of our formula, and I sure ain't gonna stop cuz of some 'rule'. I say have some balls. Make your song, use whatever it takes, and put the heat on the judges to decide, if it comes to that. Just don't cry if they reject it - it's only a game, and you* probably weren't going to win**, anyway.

SPUD

*refers to no one in particular.
**statistically speaking, of course.

[glennny]

I think guest musicians should totally be allowed. I never had the impression that it had to be one person doing everything. That would discount us, G & R, Merisan of last year etc.
it's not like David Bowie, Tom Waits, or Peter Gabriel play all the instruments on their albums.

I also think most everyone has too little an appreciation for a drummer's contribution to a song.

All aspects of recording are part of songwriting, I appreciate all of the recording commentary!

I think it's song verses song under somebodies name. How they got to their end result recording seems irrelevant.

Besides, every track, personality, instrument, idea you throw into a mix makes it that much more complicated, it cuts both ways.

[Niveous]

I think Erik should put out a heavy metal album as his alter ego Judge Blood, complete with band photo of Erik in black robes and bleeding eyes. lml lml

[Ross]

I think octothorpe should have been disqualified from round zero for not utilizing the whole band.



PS - note to glenny, I don't really disagree with your main point, but there is also a some sort of difference between those that sign up as a "solo" artists and those that sign up as bands.

[Niveous]

I don't think this debate has an easy answer. It went on last year too.

Good question. Does this mean that someone could theoretically just keep inviting special guests every week to do their songs with and thus, by clever guest use, win the contest?

Honestly, I'm in it for the good music, guests or not. Would I DQ Jim T for using the Jim Tyrrell band? No. Would I DQ # because Fluffy is on one entry and not the others? No. It's an interesting to debate for shits and giggles but at the end of the day, it's going to be good songs that wins this.

Don't spend all your energy worrying about the piccadillos. I would hate for someone to over exert themselves over the details and then find out that they are spent with less than 24 hours to go.

And as for Ross's point of how you sign up...we didn't really have an official sign up, did we. It's something to consider...for next time. But we've got a year to hash that out.

[frankie big face]

Well, what the fuck Sam? Merisan is TWO people. Is it unfair that you play guitar and Erin sings? Is it unfair that you collaborate on the songwriting? You two like acting like you're one person (i.e. how are TWO people=one judge?), but you're not. You have strengths and she has strengths. You utilize, exploit, and capitalize on each other's strengths. Yet, you feel you can tell other people they shouldn't collaborate as part of the contest. Frankie Big Face is a band. By the definition established by your duo, every member of my band ought to be allowed to contribute to the songwriting and the recording. As it turns out, I am the only songwriter and they play on the recordings when I ask them to (which is rare in this case because there's so little time).

I don't think I was making contentious statements. Everyone in this competition has been given production tips at some point or another and you can't possibly be saying that doesn't enter into the equation. And, given the uneven results, how the hell does anyone know what the judges are listening for? It's not like you have any special qualifications to judge beyond saying "I'll do it" on a message board. None of you has made a list of your criteria or whatever. The only thing I know about the judges is that one decided to put Sven's song at #11 last week and one contradicts everything I say on the message board.

(I know this post is going to piss people off and I fully expect an onslaught of flames. Maybe I'll even be "voted off" this week as a result. But it's hard to sit back and not respond to posts that I am now taking quite personally. So, I'll just say I'm sorry right now for whatever wrongdoing I have done and try to ignore the thread from here on out. Cheers, everybody.)

[erik]

I don't think this debate has an easy answer. It went on last year too.

Good question. Does this mean that someone could theoretically just keep inviting special guests every week to do their songs with and thus, by clever guest use, win the contest?

Honestly, I'm in it for the good music, guests or not. Would I DQ Jim T for using the Jim Tyrrell band? No. Would I DQ # because Fluffy is on one entry and not the others? No. It's an interesting to debate for shits and giggles but at the end of the day, it's going to be good songs that wins this.

Just to clarify, I'm not raising these points for fun, I'm raising them because when people have opposed yet unverifiable ideas about how something should be used, it's a recipe for one person telling someone else "You're obviously wrong," and then someone else getting upset.

It seems to me that since it's your contest, and you're in it for good music, guests or not, then the debate has a really easy and definitive answer: guests musicians are allowed.

[Niveous]

Now that we have that hashed out... enough worrying about the rules. How is everyone's songs coming along?

[glennny]

If you weren't a judge, I'd love to send you the progress. I'm absolutely loving our entry and it has an interesting evolution.

[adamadamant]

I'm currently reworking my chorus instead of revising for my exam tomorrow. This contest is making me into some kind of awful perfectionist. (i.e. I'm looking for perfection but I'm awful.) Should be good, here's hoping for round 2.

[frankie big face]

Also (and then I'll really shut up), how can production and arranging not be important when the non-optional challenges are things like "no guitars," "non-traditional percussion" and "crescendo"? The songs are being judged on how well we incorporate these challenges, so even the best song in the world can lose points for a poorly executed non-optional challenge. Okay, I'm done.

[bck15]

A quick question about the challenge. I was hoping someone else might ask this, so I wouldn't have to feel ignorant. Do I just need to include one example of a crescendo or does the whole song need to be a crescendo? As of now, I have a fade in at the beginning. Is that cresend-y enough?

My entry is coming along. It's one of those songs that I was pretty excited about at the outset. But the more I hear it, the less I like it. I still haven't decided between a drum loop or no drums.

[Lunkhead]

Frankie, I'm sorry I pissed you off. I didn't mean to target you personally, or to imply that I thought people should have to enter alone. Erin and I entered as a duo, you are correct. Other than when it was required for the "guest vocalist" challenge, we didn't have anyone else do any part of our songs. That was just our choice, and you're right, as a contestant it's not really my business to tell other people to make that same choice. I'm sorry if I came across as telling people what to do. I guess should have just said that, to me personally as (EDIT: -half-) a judge, production is not necessarily going to be a deciding factor. I'm sorry for speaking for more than just myself and for not saying what I meant. I should have been clearer that it was just my opinion that it's not really necessary or even always useful for people to bring in guest musicians, at least as far as my (EDIT: -half of our-) rankings of the songs goes.

[erik]

A quick question about the challenge. I was hoping someone else might ask this, so I wouldn't have to feel ignorant. Do I just need to include one example of a crescendo or does the whole song need to be a crescendo? As of now, I have a fade in at the beginning. Is that cresend-y enough?

QUIT WORRYING ABOUT THE RULES

[glennny]

It's OK Sam, besides you're only half a judge

[Lunkhead]

Thanks, fixed.

[Ross]

I think my song is going fairly well. Tonight may be my last to record, depending how my Friday turns out - so I'm hoping to get all my touches in. Then it's just Mixy-mixy (my least favorite part).

[Spud]

I have lyrics written and one track down. Mad Dog is back in town.

[Märk]

I have about 8 tracks done, a few of which I'm going to re-record. No vocals yet, or drums. Since we sort of kind of got a (murky) clear answer on the guest musician thing, does anyone wanna do some drums for me?

Also, am I alone in thinking that Cubase is the most counter-productive piece of DAW software in existance? I've been trying to force myself to use it when recording, because everyone says it's better, but I really don't use synths, so what's the benefit of it over, say, Audition 1.5?

[starfinger]

i think mine is done, but the mix has been a bitch because of that crescendo!

[Ross]

Hey - I'm not trying to shut down Mark - but does anyone from last year recall if we had a moritorium on Nur Ein! cross fertilization? Like we weren't allowed to use another Ein-er as our guest vocalist, for instance.

I don't really care who does drums for Mark, but I think last year this was discussed at some point about ein-ers performing on other einers songs. I think Sausage boy did some vocals for Tex, but had already been eliminated (it as a veritable cavalcade of ein elimination f I recall correctly).

Woo Hoo! more rules! (or not)

Nur Ein!

[edit: no reason last years rules have to apply here anyway - I was just recalling]