Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

[Fortunato]

well I think james peen is a pompous poop and that is entirely due to my negative review

Edit: sarcasm just fyi

[Lucky Spoon]

awwww i just got a one liner... I guess that's the price I pay for writing a metal song with the buddahs (double kick). ok ok, your review of my song made me lurf... sorry, baby Jesus!


@LML - sorry for having such an attacking tone in my post. I just get really frustrated when people are far more negative than (IMO) they need to be. i.e. - I like your songs... I like the sound of your voice... yeah, there's rough edges to work out but that's nothing compared to someone who can't write a song to save their life and can't sing worth a damn... but you're already beating yourself up in the prefight ("it doesn't sound very good. Too cluttered.") ...then it turns into condescending posts against others based on what you think they should have thought or how many posts they have, etc. frustrating. I'd say your attitude needs to catch up to your talents. I don't say that because I think you're a bitch... I say that because I think you've got talent and I think if you come to accept that you'll write better songs than if you just beat yourself up and get defensive when criticized.

[LML]

I appreciate your apology, as I'm sorry I let myself get so irritable. This week has been a rough one for me, and I suppose I just took out my anger on people who didn't deserve it, which is not something I usually do. I do appreciate the critiques, and I learn from them, I just let myself get swept up in my own disappointment with the song. I do think manhattan glutton has done a really good job remixing it, and I hope to be able to emulate that in my future work.

[jast]

And now... group hug! (no homo)

I think I'm channelling a bit of BLT here.

[AJOwens]

To those who suggested I go bigger, I 've put together a hasty remix and stuck it on an even hastier web site.

I did not fix the misplaced drum beats, and I am aware that the flautist plays a sour note or two. But I threw in some extra stuff that I had lying around from the original production; ramped up the volume gradually until it busts your headphones; and even had a go at singing the last chorus more vigourously (you'll soon see why I sing softly!)

Is it better or worse?

http://storm.ca/~jje/

[AJOwens]

LML was gracious enough to let me put some constructive criticism into remix form (see attached file). Although, obviously, my own take on the song probably has its own criticisms. And this was without the source material. So now that I've got the source material, I'll probably do a 2nd version in the coming days with some more tweaks.

EDIT: fixed the quote, misc errors

I look forward to the second version. For the first one, I think you were right to oomph the bass, but I'm not so sure the standard drum kit works here.

Now I'm going to risk annoying LML by saying that, while production can certainly help this song, it needs compositional attention too. There are two weak points. The first is that the whole thing rests on the same three bass notes, or the same two chords with a passing note if you want to look at it that way. The second is that the melody for the verse covers a fifth -- five adjacent notes in the scale -- and the melody for the chorus uses the same five notes. The melodies and bass lines are good, but they don't range widely enough. These restrictions limit the amount of excitement the song can generate.

I don't run into a lot of dance/pop music in the course of my life, but when I do, I pay attention, and my impression is that most of it has wider range and variation. The highs and lows, and the changes in the underlying structures (and rhthyms), add excitement and tension in a subtle way.

I do like your arrangement of analog synth sounds with portamento, backed with some pads. This makes for a rich, interesting texture.

[LML]

I've always liked to stick to basic music arrangements, but I realize that simplicity doesn't really work with electronic music. I'm learning though, and I think with more practice I'll be able to come up with something more musically complex. Despite what my songs on songfight! would suggest, most of my songs are acoustic guitar. I've tried to broaden my horizons on this site over the years. It's an exercise in creativity, that's for sure. Thanks for the input.

[Heidstink]

LOL I've never been compared to Linkin park, if i was a little younger and more sensitive, this might bother me. Oh well, thanks for the reviews good, bad or other (the cliches do run thick and this is by no means my best song rhythmically or lyrically ). Oh one thing though, if you're white and make any kind of music that was developed post slave trade, you're probably co-opting black culture. You really only hear white people complain about white people rapping

[roymond]

c.layne
It's hard to get past this entry. Sorry if it's the only vote I make this round. Welcome back!

Stateshirt
Oh, yeah. Forgot about this little ditty. OK, so two votes that drown out all the rest.

[Ross]

Sorry about the late reviews - it was hard getting them written for so many songs. I listened to them in the car a few times driving to work and home. SO I've heard most of them 3 times (I listened again while I wrote these). Reviews not all written in one sitting - so I guess there could be a small amount of mood variation. I gave each song a number:

1 - Yes! I Love this song! I want to download it and listen to it again!
2 - This is a good song but there is something missing for me to make it a 1 (including style in some cases)
3 - I felt this song had some major flaws, but it's not terrible
4 - I thought this was terrible

There were no "1"s for me in this fight - but lots of twos - I haven't decided if all of them will get a vote yet or not

A Far off Land - nice atmospheric piece. I like the way the intro gets us into - there is certainly an early 70s Floyd vibe here, largely due to your excellent vocal double tracking. Nice arrangement choices throughout, but the secondary presence of the words takes away from it for me in this context - very enjoyable listen. well executed. (2)

Balance Lost - I like the way the arrangement builds - I think it may get there too soon and then stays a bit the same after that. But enjoyable textures and all throughout. I am a little distracted by the way "Keep all your promises" sounds a bit like a non-sequiter in many places. Another one that is well executed and put together, but doesn't quite push "that" button for me (2)

c. layne - really hypnotic - reminds me of some Peter Gabriel productions, I'm sure there are more accurate associations (yo a tengo) but his is what comes to mind first. The vocals are well delivered the arrangement is great, the breakdown helps. I like the vocal layering after that point. I am always interested in these things, because my brain just doesn't naturally go these places. (2)

Bartonstink - I like that you committed to this take on the title. Nice vocal delivery of the material - appropriate conviction/anger. Structurally I feel like it's missing a second verse section before coming back to the ending repetitions of the "chorus" I like the sound of the drums for this type of track (acoustic loop instead of more electronic sounding). I end up feeling like I didn't really get the whole story. I'll leave other production comments to others (3)

Interchangeables - Front porch folk/country is kinda in, and I wanted to meet this song on those terms, but it just didn't sell for me. I guess it is supposed to be sort of funny, but just did not work for me on that level. This is a case where the weaknesses in the vocal performance really affected the way I heard the song and I wanted to give them amateur charm credit, but the lyrics didn't have the charm to go with it. Overall, I feel that this is unfortunately a song genre that required a more nuanced lyric and a more solid performance. (3) (BTW - why did you give this a title in your id3tag that isn't the title?)

James Owens - This seems like a pretty effective piano bar ballad. The strings seem like the right choice, but somehow don't quite work. I would like to hear the intensity of your vocal go up as the mix and song structure do. the continued whisper sound throughout sounds like unnecessary restraint. I like some of the way you turn the words around - especially with the title phrase. Pretty good potential hook in the chorus. I appreciate the poetic approach you took to the lyrics, but they do come off a bit overly serious in this recording. (3)

JR and the NCLs - catchy, bouncy, fun, I wish there was a little conflict in the song story somewhere - maybe its in the guitar solo. Nicely arranged if a little roughly produced. Fu to hear you you do this type of thing. I wish the chorus came off as more of a hook - I think it could have if it varied more from the verses. (2)

King Arthur "Every time I see our face/It reminds me of the Place-es we used to go" - o, wait, no. I like the take on the title you went with, somehow the execution lyrically seemed a bit forced in the verses - but nice chorus. An interestingly feel-good song considering the content. Nicely done all around once you decided on it. But another where something in it doesn't go "Click" (2)

Lucky spoon - I would say "not my thing" but in part it reminds me of some ministry stuff I love. then it kinda goes Primus - then back to something else. Great vocals - the drums really help sell this. VEry good! I want one more verse, and maybe for the spoken thing to come in again before the last chorus - to give the song a little glue. HARD! (2)

LML - for an apparently groove-based song - the groove just never locks in. Here's how that sounds to me. (a) the drums are a loop at a very constant rate (and could use a bigger dose of base to help hold things together (b) the laser sound is not locked into it - I suspect it was played all the way through and is imprecise, if using midi I suggest you quantize it to get it locked in with drums. I also thing that the way the envelope unfolds on that sound, the accent of the note is not at the beginning, but slightly after, so after quantizing you may want to experiment with sliding the track slightly to the left until the groove feels right. The vocals are a bit lazy with the groove, too, but I suspect that is a result of the above issue. I felt that the words were a bit of a stereo type of the kind of words one would expect to go with this type of music and that there could have been more to them. (3)

Manhattan Glutton - slickly done - fun hook-ey chorus. But in one ear and out the other. Honestly, I think I liked last weeks song better. This one sounds a bit contrived, last week sounded more like your heart was in it. I like the way you build the arrangement and break it down and use backing vocals and all, but it somehow comes out sterile. I also think that the lyrical theme you set up in the first verse doesn't last through the song, so it ended up sounding like a song about your mother to me. (3)

Menbah - almost hard to believe the vocals on the chorus and verses are from the same group. there is a smidge of discontinuity there. The second verse lyrics are kinda weak, and it's paired with that second guitar, which is a good choice but is not quite in the the groove. Seems quite dependent on the chorus vocals (2)

Mister Man - I think there is actually a lot right with this track.I think the slow quiet focus of it helps support the content of someone sitting endlessly by a phone through late nights. But I had to really choose to focus on the song to get there - other wise it did not pull me in and I got bored and forgot the song was on at all. The key pad is nice and subtle but does help withthe monotony. The bridge change up is very effective, like a memory of a better time, but comes too late in the song. (4)

Montana Fudge I think this is a stupid song. Way too far to go just to a make a pre-adolescent crude joke. (4)

State Shirt - first a comment that is not exactly a review, but I first heard this while watching the video - which adds a really cool dynamic energy. Then when I heard it without, I felt it lost a lot of it's energy and interest. Weird. Sonically this is fantastic, of course. TRying to listen in for the words that support the sound and I admit that I'm not getting it. It appears to be an indictment of airlines for not keeping up with their flight schedules, but perhaps I am missing a bit of the poetry.
One thing that is bugging me is that you appear to set up rhymes and then abandon them in several places. Maybe you did it intentionally, but it was distracting to me as a listener. I like the loud sections, but wish I could tell the words there so i could fit it in context with the rest of the song. Great listen until I listened too close. (2)

Styop Quoons - My major comment really is that the length totally kills this for me. I don't even remember what happened at the beginning. As soon as it comes up in the rotation I hit "next" because I don't want to sit though it again. I'm sure there is more to say - but that sooooo over-rode any other impression of the song I had that I should you should know (4)

SuckWeasal - Pretty nice little ditty - good turn of song story. Well performed little folky thingy. The singing is a little imprecise at times (like I should talk). Good one. (2)

Therman - Rockin! Convincingly done all around, and the trombone helps give it a little extra color it need to not be taking itself too seriously. I don't give a crap about the words - not sure you do either. But it sounds good! (2)

Ux Mpuzm - I tried with this one, I really did - but it did nothing for me on so many levels, I'm not sure I can even comment very meaningfully beyond that. (4)

Wages - This song just kinda goes by - the imprecise guitar and wander-ey vocals make it hard for me to really go with and the words seem labored, Like the "derailed" line. It comes close in spots and your delivery is passionate and dedicatd which is good - but ultimately it fell flat. (3)

Weakest Suit - I dn't know whay you felt you had to do the laser thing - seems like a pretty successful solo song up until that point. I mean I think it might have endd up being a little long, but instead it just ends up being plain hard to listen to. Some nice word work and pretty hooky chorus. Too bad you threw it away (3)

WTFBBS - Well I didn't think this was very good. I assume this is supposed to be Rap - but it really just sounds like you're reciting a bunch of stuff off of a paper you haven't studied enough times. Since this appears to be "how can we improve" thread. A try to be a bit more deliberate in teh rhythmic delivery of your words - work the actually words so that they can be delivered in the time allowed, build context with your words to try to get those who don't already care about your video game world to get involved - teach a little, come p with some sort of chorus or repeating line or lines to help give the piece structure. I guess I would start with those. (4)

Architects of Desire - Interesting textures - but I was bored before the words came. I suspect it turned out very much as you wanted it to. You have a nice and proficient voice, why are you using pitch correction? Is it a timbre/stle choice? I didn't really like how it worked here. Lots of good arrangement choices, but I still didn't really care about what you were singing - and you sound sort of uninvested in it, too. (3)

Bingy Swirley - sounds like you are making fun of country instead of just singing country, at least that is an initial impression, I like the use of syncopation in the melody. I tried to stay with it - but it just kept going and could not keep my interest. (3)

chthonic youth - live through the 90s much Great big sound, nice patter vocals.I like hte loud melodic stuff, for me it was Teenage Fanclub, but this fits in that same pocket. The danger is to be just loud, but the arrangement and teh three different melodic sections in the core of the structure are helping a lot. The words and music are nicely paired, as well. I love the way you settle into the ending. This might be the closest so far to something I might actually have in my own collection. (2)*

Fortunes Favorites - I am kind of fascinated by this piece. I wanted to hear what was happening next credit to the poet and the singer and the arranger. Very interestingly put together. Seemed like an interesting creative process. Teh arrangement changes map well to the changes in the words and the singing is delivered engagingly. Unusual - certainly - but you had me listening all the way through (and it's not short). (2)

Torrentz - This fires on all cylcinders, doesn't it. Three good rappers with different styles, a god backing track, the sung chorus is effect and hookey. The first time through I was really taken. On repeated listens I think that it would have been a stronger piece if the three section had more differing takes. It's a little like thre rappers wrote three different songs and put them together, as opposed to each writing one part of the same song - I don't know if that makes any sense. Small complaint. If I had only one vote it would likely go to this, but it still get a (2) due to genre bias.

[AJOwens]

Ross wrote,
James Owens - This seems like a pretty effective piano bar ballad. The strings seem like the right choice, but somehow don't quite work. I would like to hear the intensity of your vocal go up as the mix and song structure do. the continued whisper sound throughout sounds like unnecessary restraint. I like some of the way you turn the words around - especially with the title phrase. Pretty good potential hook in the chorus. I appreciate the poetic approach you took to the lyrics, but they do come off a bit overly serious in this recording. (3)

Thanks for the review. I think the strings don't work because they're not properly arranged, especially in the chorus, where they just follow the piano chords. Worse than that, they descend. A rising motion is called for here, but I didn't have time to devise it, so I just tossed them on in their present sad state. As for the words, they sound darkly serious, but I'm not sure what they mean exactly. Kind of like Procol Harum, but more emotional.

Singing -- ok, I'll fess up. Someone is sleeping in the next room, metaphorically. My studio is in the basement directly below the TV room, and the soundproofing is modest. It's a bit embarrassing to be howling away down there, especially when only I can hear the music. I try to wait 'til the house is empty, but I don't always get the chance.

Ten days from conception to delivery isn't much time for a guy with a day job. At some point I may choose a song to revisit properly. From the reviews to date, it' not likely to be this one.

[Manhattan Glutton]

Is it better or worse?

The more I hear it (the original), the more I like it. That said, I think it's going in the right direction. The tone feels a little synthy. Sometimes the strings don't do what I expect them to. The little phrase where you mimic the vocal melody reminds me of "We Three Kings" - "He will bring us goodness and light".

Off the top of my head, here's some things I would probably do to the song (to completely void it of tact and emotion):
- Kick in a little more at 0:45, maybe drum fill.
- Center the bass and/or turn it up a little.
- Find more natural sounding strings... probably my favorite cello patch.
- Instead of one note strings, probably mimic some piano chords. More change at the choruses.
- Give the drums more of a Ringo sound. Change them up and give them a little funky feel at parts (open hats, close hats on snare)
- Some ahhhs, some harmonies, vocal layers!
- Overall, everything needs to gain a little more intensity as it goes on.

reviews

Excellent observations, not only on my song but others'.

[Paco Del Stinko]

Best Cobalt Stomach song to date. Not saying it's the best song, by any means, just Stomach-wise. There ya go.

Oh! And SWEET 12 string action, Ross! Sounds great and a natural fit!

[Ross]

Oh! And SWEET 12 string action, Ross! Sounds great and a natural fit!

YES! I was hoping you'd hear that - really fun to play - and I think she'll get used like this alot.

[AJOwens]

Reviews for some late entries I missed:

Suckweasel -- good performance, basically good song. The chorus needs to stand out more from the verse.

The Sober Irishman -- Nice texture, creative musical fills. The middle eight is a bit low-energy for the rest of the song. Overall the song has a static quality; could build or develop as it goes.

[AJOwens]

Is it better or worse?

The more I hear it (the original), the more I like it. That said, I think it's going in the right direction. . .
Off the top of my head, here's some things I would probably do to the song (to completely void it of tact and emotion). . .

You see what I mean, then. Thanks for the additional review! I appreciate it. If I have another go at this tune, I will keep your suggestions in mind (although my drums don't have a setting for "Ringo").

[Lucky Spoon]

thereviews

excellent work, ross! you put a lot of time and effort into these reviews and it shows. thanks!

[Manhattan Glutton]

Folks, here's my final LML-KAYP remix. It may be worse or better than my first mix. I need to move on - toward the end I was just fighting with LML's microphone on the verse. I don't know if an FX was run on the original vocal track or if the microphone is just of the unfortunate type in an unfortunate setting, but it was really hard to pitch correct and EQ without unwanted results. Despite this, the double-tracked chorus worked out really nicely! So everyone take note: double track your vocals, especially if you don't have the best set-up.

Also, I would have liked to use synth drums, but my synth kit didn't have the high-hat sound I wanted; ideally, I should have made two drum tracks. This gives it a nice drum n bass feel - which, I know, isn't exactly 'dance'.

[irwin]

thereviews

excellent work, ross! you put a lot of time and effort into these reviews and it shows. thanks!

I had no idea we were supposed to review the reviews.

[wages]

thereviews

excellent work, ross! you put a lot of time and effort into these reviews and it shows. thanks!

I had no idea we were supposed to review the reviews.

I thought the reviews could have berated some people more and praised others less, although some of the reviews could use more praise and less berating, so it's really a toss-up. I'm not voting for any reviewers this go 'round.

[Manhattan Glutton]

I thought the reviews could have berated some people more and praised others less, although some of the reviews could use more praise and less berating, so it's really a toss-up. I'm not voting for any reviewers this go 'round.

I think this review review could have been more polished and included more details. For a last-minute entry capitalizing on the humor of the review situation, it's okay, but not something I would read outside of this context.

[bdog5778]

So, I haven't done reviews in a while due to a) too dang busy and it takes a LONG time for me to do justice to these and b) having sampled the last few songfights, I just didn't care for enough of the songs to make it worth it. LOTS of goodness this time, so I shall proceed.

Barton Stink - Rock drums over a rap? Okay, it works. The raps are very fluid and I'm enjoying this. The strings need some variation. Hmm, little depressing on the lyrical side though, eh? They need a little variance, too. This is really solid. Oooh, guiro! Bonus cookies for that.

Cthonic Youth - YEAH!!!! [N.B. I usually avoid the use of multiple exclamations]. Haven't heard a lot of good disorted rhythm guitar on SF -this is very refreshing. The snare: absolutely kickin', if a little high in the mix. Has the perfect mix of slap, thud, chain rattle, and room sound. I want to move the outro to the bridge and the chorus could be a little stronger/more melodic. Still excellent, though. Your voice is magnificent here. I though you were using a doubling effect, but then I realized that you'd overdubbed a unison and third harmonies. Good on ya.

Montana Fudge w/ James Peen - Love the direction on this. Good production. Snort-inducing chorus...the first time. The lyrics from there on out need a little more variance. Any good joke song keeps 'em coming. Maybe some electric slide lead guitar could be introduced later. I felt like the horns were a little TOO easy listening. Loved the "Wish You Were Here" filtering in the outro. Speaking of horns...

Therman - Distoshun! I'm always a sucker for it. Too many dissonant notes for my tastes, though. Great drums. You have a way of bringing the drama with them. The excitement. The je ne sais quoi. Kind of reminds me of Smashing Pumpkins' take on "Girl Named Sandoz"....which I also don't care for. Horns? No, no, no, no, no! Stop that. Stop that right now. As a side note, you, sir, will forever have a special place in my heart for DSPC's "Made to be Played". Why it didn't win that SF, I'll never know. It's one of the few songs I downloaded and still listen to.

Manhattan Glutton - Great drums (again!). What an awesome SF. Awesome chorus! "Eat your vegetables", ha ha. Oh, wait...horns. Instant disqualification. Wait, what's this? "Deadlines"! Ha ha. That's great. Love all the call-and-response vocals. Downloading. Possible winner, horns be danged.

Torrentz - Is MC Milk Plus on this? Tons of goodwill for him: "Ring Them Bells" was another download. Chorus doesn't work for me. The raps are awesome but the music doesn't do a lot for me. Solid production.

Lucky Spoon - Today is my day. "Fortune Cookie" was another download -so wicked good. This? Not quite up to that standard. Love the descending whammy bar at first -didn't see it coming. I want the production to be "bigger" -this can be accomplished with stereo imaging**. Metal is my thing, so this pretty much works for me. Vocal harmonies all the way through (AIC-style) also is my thing. Verdict: Goodness, but not greatness.

**You may have some stereo imaging going on and my ears are just crap. Always a possiblity. If not, you can get a free VST from KVR Audio called G-Multi. It's a multiband compressor that also has multiband stereo imaging. Gives depth to the whole mix. I have other, better compressors but I definitely use the imaging on ever song. It's awesome.

Wages - Love your voice, but this doesn't really move me. Would drums be good here? It'd be an interesting experiment. As a side note, if you'd like pitch correction on either your vocals or your guitar I'd be more than happy to run them through Melodyne Editor (which I own). It's wicked cool like that. I mention this as I've read numerous reviews criticing this aspect of your performances. It can also be used for generating harmonies, which I'd like to hear more of on your tracks.

That's it for now. Lunch break is over.