Field recorders

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:11 pm

Hey, who records on those digital field recorders thingies? Blue has a DAT, I believe. Anybody use Minidisc? I want to transfer digital files to my DAW, not output analog and have to re-digitize. I also don't want to spend $1,300 on that HMH-whatever...or carry such a big thing (I have a great Morantz portable cassette deck, but its not that portable). Maybe $400. I want to be able to grab sound whereever whenever.

Anybody doin' this?

ken · Post by **ken** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:31 pm

You have an iPod right? They make a microphone for it. I forget the link, but I suspect you can do a search and find it.

Ken

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:47 am

ken wrote:You have an iPod right? They make a microphone for it. I forget the link, but I suspect you can do a search and find it.
Ken

Yes, that would be sweet, but 16-bit audio at 8kHz isn't quite production quality, even for my low standards

I'm looking for a minidisc that allows digital transfer to my PC, but I now see that only the high end gear does this. Blast.

Hey, now, <a href="http://www.edirol.com/press/html/2004/0 ... html">this Edirol R-1 recorder</a> starts to get there!

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:16 am

From what I understand, you can't upload anything you've recorded in the field with a Minidisc onto your computer. Apparently, Sony has 'anti-paracy' software that works to prevent you from recording concerts and bootlegging them via the internet. It only lets you upload something to your computer if you've already downloaded it first.

This totally sucks because otherwise I would have bought one. There are a few on the internet who seem to think they have a work-around for this, but I'm not convinced enough to shell out the money.

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:26 am

Henrietta wrote:From what I understand, you can't upload anything you've recorded in the field with a Minidisc onto your computer. Apparently, Sony has 'anti-paracy' software that works to prevent you from recording concerts and bootlegging them via the internet.

I found that out the hard way. Really pissed me off when I found that out. My advice Roymond is to a) buy a portadat from Ebay or b) http://www.sounddevices.com/products/index.html

This company is the bomb for professional portable recorders these days. Since I am in the field I am somewhat in the know on this stuff. I don't like DAT cuz of various issues I have with tape stretch, dither, drop-outs cuz of fish glue wearing out on the tape and dropping oxide particles and shuttle issues that bug me when you want to get up to speed. Such a silly medium really and antiquated by our current technology. Check out the USB mic pre. Can be used with a laptop

and is ultra cool. The 722 is a killer unit and pretty small with SMPTE (in case you are recording for any film work). Mic pres are clean and I think you can go 24 bit at 192khz recording. This is the best portable recorder I've seen for the money to be able to slip into a computer and it's firewire. Anyway, check it out. I think it runs at about 1000 dollars US a channel. But the bomb buddy. Check it out. Seems that portable recorders such as minidisc have been fuct by Napster. My next big purchase is the 722 or 742.

Pablo

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:48 am

tonetripper wrote:My next big purchase is the 722 or 742.
Pablo

Yeah, there are some pretty fun high-end toys, but I have to send my kids to college one day and my bonus this year was, uh, well maybe it wasn't. The 722 looks to be $2300. There's an HBB minidisc unit that's $1300 and allows digital transfers.

I was aiming at the $500 range, where the Edirol qualifies, but it isn't out yet so no reviews on an actual machine. Also, I'm looking for something to carry on a regular basis for spontaneous use, the way I carry my digital camera. So a large item isn't convenient. An old SONY walkmanPro DAT may be the way to go though I too hate tape.

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:43 pm

roymond wrote:
tonetripper wrote:My next big purchase is the 722 or 742.
Pablo
Yeah, there are some pretty fun high-end toys, but I have to send my kids to college one day and my bonus this year was, uh, well maybe it wasn't. The 722 looks to be $2300. There's an HBB minidisc unit that's $1300 and allows digital transfers.

I was aiming at the $500 range, where the Edirol qualifies, but it isn't out yet so no reviews on an actual machine. Also, I'm looking for something to carry on a regular basis for spontaneous use, the way I carry my digital camera. So a large item isn't convenient. An old SONY walkmanPro DAT may be the way to go though I too hate tape.

They're not just toys to me as I can make money with one of those things, but all things said the HHB is cool and the portadat Sony is still a good machine. Wait a little longer, I'm sure enough musicians will be crying about the fact that they want something to record with that's portable so that they can do what you and I are wanting to do in the digital transfer of things, although I'm sure the companies investing in digital recording would rather corner the market professionally and not let little guys like you, me and people on SF run into an industry that could undermine their bottom line.

I agree the 722 is pricey, but in my line of work it's not, cuz it's an investment. No kids. Yet. 8)

Pablo

Post by jb » Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:38 pm

somebody needs to build a gadget that plugs into the bottom of my ipod (data goes in there, after all), and with a 1/4" stereo female plug on the end. then write some software for the ipod that lets it use the gadget.

hop to it, people.

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:17 pm

tonetripper wrote:They're not just toys to me ...
I agree the 722 is pricey, but in my line of work it's not, cuz it's an investment. No kids. Yet. 8)

I didn't mean that literally. I got my Morantz as partial payment for a regular gig recording authors and poets for the National Book Awards. Its an awesome portable analog cassette deck. It will soon be on eBay. If I get enough stuff on eBay that move, I may just consider a higher end machine, as I really want to do some projects with recorded street and subway musicians, offering them CDs or whatever of the final works they appear on. I just hate wading through analog tapes!

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:35 pm

jb wrote:somebody needs to build a gadget that plugs into the bottom of my ipod (data goes in there, after all), and with a 1/4" stereo female plug on the end. then write some software for the ipod that lets it use the gadget.

hop to it, people.

I agree with you on that, and for that matter the Sony mini-disc player that I bought with the USB cable that came with it should have been allowed to enter into my computer..... I have soooooooooo much shit on mini-disc that needs to be transferred...... nature sounds...... roadside evangelists from Tobago..... Pan drums..... poor Cuban musicians...... old band jam recordings........ Live recordings of friends in bars....... oh man I was pissed when I found out that cuz of the anti-piracy concept they wouldn't allow my recordings to go via USB. $400 mistake.... I even phoned Sony to find out if there was a way around it....... nothing ofcourse. I analog all my recordings through my 8-track mini-disc recorder via soundcard, but come on real time versus digital transfer.

So, my feeling is JB they will not do it for the IPod. Stupid when you can get a mini computer and prolly do it with some portable sound card or something like that. Dumb Napster. Well it's kinda dumb (shrugs shoulders, swaying back and forth innocently).

ken · Post by **ken** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:52 pm

Roymond,

You don't really give any specifics of what you are looking for, I am starting to get the idea though.

I thought about this:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=r ... id/240239/

But there are now a number of small mulitrack recorders on the market.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=r ... id/242101/

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=r ... id/240834/

I believe Yamaha also has something similar.

What about looking into portable voice recorders?

Be well,
Ken

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:12 pm

ken wrote:http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=r ... id/240834/

Yes, the PocketStudio5 is the closest at this point. Plus it has the potential to be that "hidden" weekend studio without dragging my laptop and camera case out. Removes the hesitancy. I'm always afraid of those plasticky buttons, but maybe this is where I should go. Thanks for the refresh, Ken!

Rabid Garfunkel · Post by **Rabid Garfunkel** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:21 pm

Henrietta wrote:From what I understand, you can't upload anything you've recorded in the field with a Minidisc onto your computer. Apparently, Sony has 'anti-paracy' software that works to prevent you from recording concerts and bootlegging them via the internet. It only lets you upload something to your computer if you've already downloaded it first.

This totally sucks because otherwise I would have bought one. There are a few on the internet who seem to think they have a work-around for this, but I'm not convinced enough to shell out the money.

This may be too low-tech a solution, but I've got a reporter-type friend who records in the field on a Sony Minidisc, then grabs the sound (nat & interview) from the audio outs through a mixer.

Haven't read through to the end of the thread yet, so if this has already been suggested, apolyolyologies.

[edit] aaaaaaand I see that it's been brought up, and for the very good reason of "real-time vs. digital"... doh! [edit]

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:59 am

Rabid Garfunkel wrote:This may be too low-tech a solution, but I've got a reporter-type friend who records in the field on a Sony Minidisc, then grabs the sound (nat & interview) from the audio outs through a mixer. [edit]

To be honest with you I have been dumping my min-discs in via soundcard in computer and the results are not bad. I don't hear that much build in noise floor, but you are right Rabid, the real time is the thing that is the killer in many extremes for these digital mediums and pair that with the concept that you put it through the A-D conversion again. By virtue of which is gonna raise the noise floor. That Korg thingie seems to have that solved, but fuck that if I have to mix down to mp3 first before the upload, that bites like on the other machines. Totally defeats the purpose. I'm always skeptical about the pre-amps on those machines. They never seem to give the noise specs on those consumer machines.

-Pablo

c hack · Post by **c hack** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:01 am

If you need it for a one-time thing, you can borrow my tascam da-p1. I'd sell it -- I never use it -- but I figure the minute I do I'll end up making a movie or something and curse myself for getting rid of it.

blue · Post by **blue** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:04 pm

i'll trade you my DAT and an AT stereo mic for something.

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:08 pm

c hack wrote:If you need it for a one-time thing, you can borrow my tascam da-p1. I'd sell it -- I never use it -- but I figure the minute I do I'll end up making a movie or something and curse myself for getting rid of it.

Ya.... funny you should say that. A friend of mine and I had to use the old da p1 for a film around Christmas last year (student film). The obvious problem is the timecode for sync cuz there ain't any on it, but we did 'er the ol' fashioned way with the wooden sticks. Cut fine and made it out to the LA film festival this year or last. Not a bad machine. Done many a fine recording with one. Two track that is....smoking from the pipe, leaning back in the easy boy by the fire as the gaze of it's orange-reddish glow transfixed the days of yore.....

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:58 pm

So I been scouring the net to find anything on portable mini recorders in the vein of this thread, as I'm interested in augmenting my field package and came across this beauty. Keep in mind that there will be companies that will follow suit in the next year or so, so keep your eyes peeled for beta tests and shit from this little bad boy.

http://www.edirol.com/products/info/r1.html

The R1 runs for about 450 or so (american) and will be shipping at the end of this month or next. Musician's friend doesn't have it yet (I been looking). No noise. Flash card recorder. Suhweet for all you musician's out there looking for the next phase of recording your music in the portable sense. Only two tracks mind you, but great for live jams, bootlegging (wait did I just say that?!), and the flash cards dump the wav or mp3 files in via USB 2.0 or you can connect a USB to the machine itself back to the computer. Check out the specs for recording. Cool ting mon. Very cool ting.

I think this bad boy would be good for some of you cats out there. 24 bit at 44.1 too. Better than most DAT machines that is for darn sure. Fits in the palm of your hand. My only skeptical notion would be the mini plug balanced ins. Never too keen on them for any portable field recorder, but then again I have done a lot of good recordings with my mini-disc using that line-in coupled to a mixer and the results were great. 8 bit compared to 24......hmmmmmmm.......

- Pablo

Kamakura · Post by **Kamakura** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:46 pm

tonetripper wrote: http://www.edirol.com/products/info/r1.html

Cool ting mon. Very cool ting.

Damn right. Gotta get one... No more DAT's or 1/4" or the like. Excellent!

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:26 pm

It sounds great to me too. The only thing that has me a little worried about this machine is how long it is going to take before copyright people start stirring it up in these machines and instilling that write protection thingy. Copyright's never been my forte (business in general), so it would be interesting to know if there is anything in the works to inhibit the idea of easy palm recording at such a high bit rate and then shipping in via USB.

Feels like you would almost have to buy the R1 hot off the presses before they instill them in future models. Anyone in the know?

- Pablo

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:59 pm

Doesn't Roland make a bunch of portable multitrack things which record to SmartMedia and CD/RW and so on? Dunno if they're battery-powerable though.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:57 pm

Update: I am happily creating MP3s from my Sony Mini-Disc field recordings by capturing the (Sony Soundstage) playback on the PC using audio-grabber software designed for capturing streaming audio.

It's not completely flawless, but pretty gosh darn simple.