Songfight Live 2011 Musician Exchange

[jack]

Traditionally, the organizer ends up without much in the way of a financial burden at all when all is said and done, but that's more than made up for with the sheer amount of work they have to do to make things happen. It's something that you can't really appreciate until you've gone through it yourself.

well, having organized one of these myself, I can't say this is true. I think I spent $300 for the Cayuga Vault, and made back less than $100 of that in donations and door fees. But I have/had no complaints, as it wasn't about the money for me. It was an awesome weekend, and I was glad to help insure that those people that were spending all that bread to get here (as inevitable guy mentioned) would have a good time. So yeah, like fluffy said, I spent alot of time organizing stuff, shlepping gear, and basically turning my house into a rehearsal studio/storage/crash space for 3 days, but I also spent a fair chunk of change on top of that.

Having said that, when I flew to Tampa, Hoblit did the same for everyone.

And last year, Sam, Ken, Erin, and fluffy organized it all, threw parties, etc. Lot of work but out of pocket costs too.

I don't think it's wrong for Niveous, or whoever else is organizing the shows, to ask for donations. It seems like the shows will happen either way. So I think it's a pretty even deal, as the organizers want to insure a good event (which takes their time and money) for those traveling far and spending their time and money.

And anyone debating spending the money really should go. It's always a blast. But it would be a real shame if Spud can't make it. I think he needs a fund raiser too.

[fluffy]

Being out $200 isn't much of a financial burden, especially compared to how much most people spent to actually get there to begin with (my personal expenditure for plane + hotel was in the $700-800 range, which was probably fairly average, and don't forget Caravan Ray...). Which is what the point of comparison was here.

In SF I was more than willing to spend a substantial amount of money on a venue. I couldn't get the other organizers on-board with that, though, but we ended up with a couple of great venues that put up with us for free, so that worked out (even if there was a lot of last-minute panic involved). I really do have to give Sam a lot of credit for doing the parts that mattered, as well. I feel like I got off way too easy - he's the one who did a lot of legwork and such to make the shows actually possible, in the end.

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that the organizer is doing a lot of work and so the fact the organizer doesn't want to have too much of a financial burden on top of that isn't that big a deal to me. (On the other hand, the organizer shouldn't complain TOO loudly about having to spend a few hundred bucks on the thing. This isn't exactly a profitable venture.)

[Niveous]

I hope it doesn't come off like I have been complaining. I haven't encumbered by this whole thing. I'm quite excited to get to experience SF Live for the first time. I just hope everyone digs NYC and Space on White and the newly renovated Sidewalk.

[Lunkhead]

I only played a small part in organizing last year. Ken and Erin deserve at least as much credit I do, as well as fluffy and others. We actually got pretty lucky with not having to pay for the venues, as the for-pay places we looked at were very expensive. I'm happy to try to take some of the money we didn't spend last year and apply it to this year. I think we realized last year that it may be a bit more difficult to find cheap decent venues in a bigger city, so I can only imagine that finding places in NYC has been extremely difficult.

[fluffy]

Sam: Man, we really need to get our story straight. :) Who found the final two venues? I thought that was you, and that you were the one who actually drove there to verify it and talk with the owners and whatnot. All I did was email a bunch of places, get confused about the dates, end up having the one venue who did accept us flake out on us silently anyway, and throw a kind of lame party.

Niveous: I didn't mean to say that you're complaining. Sorry if that came out wrong. I was just further replying to inevitableguy there in my usual overly-detailed under-specific bludgeony way.

[Lunkhead]

Ha! I'm not 100% clear myself, but here's what I know and think:

I got us the Sunday night venue. A very old friend of mine was the manager and sound guy there, so that was pretty easy to set up. They have to make a certain minimum amount of money on any given night, so I said we would cover the difference if they made less than that. Fortunately, plenty of hungry and thirsty fighters and their family and friends bought more than enough food and drink for the venue to hit their mark and then some. (Was there also a small cover charge? I can't remember.)

I believe it was Erin who found the other venue and set up the initial meeting with the proprietor. She and Ken and I all went to meet him and check the place out. Fortunately for us, the band the guy had booked for the night we needed had just cancelled shortly before we called, so it actually worked out well for both him and us.

Like I said, in spite of the setback with the original Saturday night place, I think we wound up being very fortunate with the venues.

[BBABM]

Unfortunately I work in a restaurant, and my income is based on tips... So right now is a little tight. However, right before the show is graduation weekend at the local college which is a rather lucrative week. I would have extra money around show time, and I was planning on just making a donation to niv, in cold hard American dollars, at the show. If that is unacceptable I'm sure I could work something else out, because I want to help... But this would just be easier for me. I'll be the one with the Mohawk, in long johns and cowboy boots...

[jack]

Being out $200 isn't much of a financial burden

Maybe for you. Keep reading.

Unfortunately I work in a restaurant, and my income is based on tips... So right now is a little tight. However, right before the show is graduation weekend at the local college which is a rather lucrative week. I would have extra money around show time, and I was planning on just making a donation to niv, in cold hard American dollars, at the show. If that is unacceptable I'm sure I could work something else out, because I want to help... But this would just be easier for me. I'll be the one with the Mohawk, in long johns and cowboy boots...

Zuzu's petals! (sorry, but i just love the last scene in "it's a wonderful life" where they are dumping loads of money on the table)

I'm sure Niveous would be happy to take anyone's money at the show, but if you're coming from Charlottesville, that's a chunk of change spent getting to NYC so don't feel like you have to give anything more than yourself. Especially if money is tight.

Like fluffy said, I probably spent $700-800 to go to Tampa, which is way more than I spent to organize. And it was money well spent! But some of us have well paying jobs, while some are struggling students and musicians. Can't expect everyone to be able to "donate" to the same degree so give what and if you can, not because you have to.

[fluffy]

Yeah, I know $200 is a lot for a lot of people. Those people shouldn't be trying to organize a show which actually does have some financial outlay. They also shouldn't be spending EVEN MORE to fly across the country for said show.

I'm not trying to say anything definitive and This Is The Way It Should Be. I'm just very clumsily trying to say that things cost money and people shouldn't complain about how much other people are paying, because there are many factors that balance out the equation and this is just a fun thing to do to begin with.

[Niveous]

I only played a small part in organizing last year. Ken and Erin deserve at least as much credit I do, as well as fluffy and others. We actually got pretty lucky with not having to pay for the venues, as the for-pay places we looked at were very expensive. I'm happy to try to take some of the money we didn't spend last year and apply it to this year. I think we realized last year that it may be a bit more difficult to find cheap decent venues in a bigger city, so I can only imagine that finding places in NYC has been extremely difficult.

Finding venues in NYC has been interesting to say the least. There is so much competition for venues here. Some places are booked very far in advance. Others are sheepish to give their whole Saturday night up to one group. We lucked out with Sunday and Sidewalk because Ben K is the booker there. Finding another place was tough. Here's an example of how ridiculous NYC can be. Sidewalk is currently closed for renovations. They wanted to keep their open mic night going. To do so, they ended up using a space called Tribes. It's essentially the 2nd floor of a brownstone deep in the area called Alphabet City. Few good things can be said of Alphabet City.

[jack]

this is just a fun thing to do to begin with.

[BBABM]

if you're coming from Charlottesville, that's a chunk of change spent getting to NYC so don't feel like you have to give anything more than yourself.

We are driving, which is honestly like 1/3 the price of any other travel method, and we have friends with a couch to crash on... Plus I want to help... If I had a Bigger car I could fit my drums in I would bring them too, shoving my guitar,my stuff Plus all the lady's stuff in a Prius is gonna be interesting... Drums would be neigh impossible... Plus I don't really have anywhere to put them once I get to the city... No offense, y'all aren't known for NOT breaking into cars, And NYC lofts are not the most spacious of abodes.

[roymond]

Ill help out with the drums, and willing to play whatever for whomever (guitar, bass, iPad, vocals).

[Lunkhead]

I was just looking at the Spaceonwhite room:

http://www.spaceonwhite.com/space/

It looks like we're going to be in room 4:




(In case you can't tell, there are mirrors along one of the side walls.)

It looks like a long rectangular room (18'x44') with all hard surfaces. I'm wondering how it's going to sound in there if we're really loud. I don't know if it's too late or not, but maybe drums there aren't really necessary? It might a) sound a lot better and b) simplify the logistics if that night were more geared toward drum-less performances anyway. I've already pitched in some money but I don't care if the donation goes for drums or just general costs. Thoughts anybody?

[fluffy]

I am definitely going to want drums on my set, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

[Lunkhead]

... if that night were more geared toward drum-less performances anyway.

I was specifically talking about Saturday night at Spaceonwhite, not both nights. There will be drums at the Sidewalk Cafe, according to an earlier post by Niveous. Niveous, is that still the case? We could try to arrange to have the people requiring drums play on Sunday.

Big question: Who is bringing drums? or should I be hunting down drums? should we start a buy Niv a drum set fund? Because Spaceonwhite lacks drums. Sidewalk has drums.

[fluffy]

Ah, I missed that Sidewalk has drums.

[BBABM]

I am planning/working on a solo acoustic set, so I would be happy to play on a date without a drum set. And I agree, if we don't pack the place, all the hard surfaces are gonna echo the drums horribly.

Q2: Do we have any idea how long of a set we will get? I was hoping for a 1/2hour... Under that may be a little tight, over may be a little boring if it's just me and my guitar. I know it's still a little early to know who all is gonna be wanting to play.

[Niveous]

... if that night were more geared toward drum-less performances anyway.

I was specifically talking about Saturday night at Spaceonwhite, not both nights. There will be drums at the Sidewalk Cafe, according to an earlier post by Niveous. Niveous, is that still the case? We could try to arrange to have the people requiring drums play on Sunday.

Big question: Who is bringing drums? or should I be hunting down drums? should we start a buy Niv a drum set fund? Because Spaceonwhite lacks drums. Sidewalk has drums.

Yes, Sidewalk has drums. If you check out Glenny's vimeo videos for a glimpse of the set. As for SpaceonWhite, we might as well rock the place out. One of the things about the space is that we had to rent two rooms. Space 4 is the only one that allows amplification, so we got that one. But since we are amplifying Space 4, we had to get Space 3 as well, which will be our green room, due to sound travelling. So, we might as well make an ungodly noise.

I understand the issue regarding the drums echoing but it's probably better to have on hand just in case someone needs it.

[inevitableguy]

I'm planning a set with drums, as well. However, I'm a terrible musician, so terrible sound won't hurt me any.

[Lunkhead]

Yes, Sidewalk has drums. If you check out Glenny's vimeo videos for a glimpse of the set. As for SpaceonWhite, we might as well rock the place out. One of the things about the space is that we had to rent two rooms. Space 4 is the only one that allows amplification, so we got that one. But since we are amplifying Space 4, we had to get Space 3 as well, which will be our green room, due to sound travelling. So, we might as well make an ungodly noise.

I understand the issue regarding the drums echoing but it's probably better to have on hand just in case someone needs it.

Ah. Interesting that we have space 3 as well. That space looks like it could sound a bit better. Too bad we can't use a PA there.

Space 3, 22'x24'



Well, I guess I will not push the issue much more. Here are my final two cents:

I think things would be easier, cost less, go more smoothly, and sound better if Saturday night were focused on quieter performances, specifically without drums, and possibly even without a PA, in Space 3 preferably. The few people who have said they need drums could be scheduled for Sunday night. (Usually many people at SF!L perform solo anyway.) We wouldn't need to find/rent/buy/transport/set up/run/tear down/return/store/etc. a PA or drum kit for Saturday night.

[JonPorobil]

I think things would be easier, cost less, go more smoothly, and sound better if Saturday night were focused on quieter performances, specifically without drums, and possibly even without a PA, in Space 3 preferably. The few people who have said they need drums could be scheduled for Sunday night. (Usually many people at SF!L perform solo anyway.) We wouldn't need to find/rent/buy/transport/set up/run/tear down/return/store/etc. a PA or drum kit for Saturday night.

I tend to agree with you, but I haven't been pushing this issue because I really wanted my set to be a "full-band" set, drums and all, and it seems most people who are performing this year feel the same about their sets. If there are people who plan on doing solo/acoustic sets, then it would probably be a good idea for them to come forward and volunteer to play on whichever day we're going White Space. Based on response thus far, I'm going to assume there won't be enough volunteers.

Maybe some liberal application of blankets, pillows, carpet squares, and double-sided tape can help dampen the acoustics in the room?