Might as well call this a review thread, I guess. (HBFY)

[glennny]

Billy & the Psychotics- This production is awesome! I’m loving the bass line especially! Guitars, vocals, and drums are rockin too! With a catchy chorus you guys would rule the world. Nice passion in the vocals! This easily gets a vote.

Dejected Motives- Everything is so quiet, and then there’s incoherent auto-tune mumbling. I’m not into this at all. I’m interested in one of your “good recordings” , but you’ve stated you know this is a bad one.

Dirge and Sara- That guitar tone is in a little box. The drums are weird, and not particularly groovy. Vocals are beautiful, however she sounds like she’s recording at low volumes. The vocals are in a good place in the mix, I wish it sounded like she was singing loudly. I like the guitar playing, I hate the tones. That half time/ regular time riff gets old. Yeah, there’s some good things going on with the vocals and the playing, but the production and the writing is not doing it for me. I look forward to the next entry!

Faight from Fire- The production leaves a lot to be desired. That lead guitar is sour. The main vocals are sooooo loud. Oh man, I wish it ended at 2:52. The rap thing is really painful.

The Hate Noise featuring mean Gene Goatie- What Sammy Kablam doesn’t realize is that that is not the original beat. I’m not a big fan of sampling, but this is done really well. Your flow is great. I’m a bit of a Hate Noise fan, I’m excited to have you back. Musically I really dig this. Lyrically, you make me feel like a really awful person for enjoying anything about this. I’m an Atheist, so to hear all of these born-again Christian lyrics is really bothersome. I wish you could save your hate speech for church, and give us some secular wit. With all this homophobia and racism this could be a Rick Perry ad campaign soundtrack. Anyway, good job well done! I’m conflicted about the vote, but I really enjoy the listen.

Ken’s Super Duper band and Stuff- FTW! This is the song I hum when I’m not listening to the fight. The production is just stellar. It reminds me of “Sample in a Jar” by Phish. This song is just oozing with restraint. It’s super tight and catchy. The “I believe in Yesterday” quote was confusing, but I asked Ken directly about it, he said not to read into it. It just fit and he and his wife like the Beatles. There’s also a sense of “A little Green Rosetta” to this. Like earlier in the album the music was all over the place and it’s all come together for an album ender. I love the vocals and the production, I think a piano solo would have sent this up into all-time classic status. I’m voting for this and hoping it gets the win.
Klownhole- I wish the band was louder and the vocals were yelling. This is yelling music. It’s nice to have the rock! I enjoy this, I don’t love it enough for the vote. The song doesn’t have much of an arc, seems to be “on” for 3 minutes, then “off”. Cool stuff!

Monkey Touchers- ………………….

Paco del Stinko- Oh yeah! Production is delicious! Those high guitar harmonies with weird intervals are my favorite part. That bass tone is amazing too! Vocals are fantastic. The bridge wah wah solos kick ass too! The drums are the least interesting part. They sound good, but I wish they had a little more “ice cakes” and a little less AC/DC. This easily gets a vote.

Pigfarmer Jr.- Social Distortion fan? Vocals seem to be going for the Social D thing. This isn’t really strong enough to stand up as just a G nG. Lyrics are silly. Title feels shoe-horned in. A rhythm section might help this, if they’re super tight. Oh man, that direct solo is painful. Sorry man, not into this.

Shambles etc.- This is wacky, in a good way. That’s clearly J$ on the chorus. I like this. This gets a vote. The cascade of leeps and bloops is interesting. The rap/lead vocals is pleasant. I don’t think it would work with an American accent. Seeing this live I imagine would be a lot like Susan Vega on the 99.9 tour, lots of toys and sound makers making their way across the microphone. Cool stuff!

Signboy- Cool groove! Nice hook! The rap bores me. I really dig the beat and the groove, the hook is sweet. I don’t much care for the long fade out. I’d think about a vote for this one, were it eligible.

The Sportswriters- Super Reverberation Batman! I’d like the stereo better if I weren’t on headphones. What is that? Is that a timpani? Sounds great! Well placed. Too bad the strings sound as fake as they do. The lines are good. I like this! Well constructed! Nice ending! Thinking about the vote.

Tye Lemery- Guitars, bass, and drums sound great. The Jack Johnson vibe is heavy. Nice harmonies! Performance is great! I’m afraid I’m just a little too bored to give this a vote. There’s a lot of merit. Solo would be a great time to kick it up? Nope, just some distorted chords. The echo stuff at 3:44 is cool, I wish it was louder in the mix and more prominent in the song. You’re a good musician! I’m sure I’m going to love one of your songs, this one is not quite catchy nor beautiful enough, for a vote.

Berkeley Social Scene- The core trio: (guitar, bass, drums) was recorded live. I added the 2 vocal tracks, the 12 string, electric rhythm, and E-bow at home. The 1st verse & chorus came from Ken. I modeled the rest of the lyrics after them. So the elephant in the room (I thought) is that the song is in 7/8 and stays in 7/8 the whole song. I use 7/8 a lot, I love the time signature, but I don’t think I have any songs where it begins with and stays in 7/8. I’ve always loved that about “Solsbury Hill” and “Back in NYC”. I think the song would be vastly improved with another vocalist. I stayed in my range and comfort zone, this has caused fewer complaints and less excitement. I do wish the organ overdub Ken did was louder, it’s really a cool tone. It reminds me (Like Paco said) of Subdivisions. This was quite the group composition. It started with 3 chords from Ken which became the 1st half of the chorus: F#m7, Dmaj7, E7. I saw these chords and of course said “ 6,4,5”. What’s cool (I think anyway) is that we cycle these 3 chords 4 times, but the lyric is a 4 line stanza , each line lends itself to 2 chords. So I wait for the 1st 3, sing over the middle 8 , and let the last one breathe. So each line is over a different combination: 6,4 then 5,6 then 4,5 then 6,4 again. Anyway I wrote the 2nd half of the chorus which is mostly the resolve to A. Martyr has that cool bass lick in that part. Martyr wrote the main verse riff, I wrote the 2nd half of the verse. I think Martyr wrote the bridge too. In any case I freaking love this song, it’s my kind of song. It gets a vote from me.

So my votes go to:

Billy and the Psychotics
Ken’s Super Duper Stuff
Paco del Stinko
Shambles
Sportswriters
Berkeley Social Scene

[The HATE Noise]

The Hate Noise featuring mean Gene Goatie- What Sammy Kablam doesn’t realize is that that is not the original beat. I’m not a big fan of sampling, but this is done really well. Your flow is great. I’m a bit of a Hate Noise fan, I’m excited to have you back. Musically I really dig this. Lyrically, you make me feel like a really awful person for enjoying anything about this. I’m an Atheist, so to hear all of these born-again Christian lyrics is really bothersome. I wish you could save your hate speech for church, and give us some secular wit. With all this homophobia and racism this could be a Rick Perry ad campaign soundtrack. Anyway, good job well done! I’m conflicted about the vote, but I really enjoy the listen.

Wait...so you think we're christians??

Okay, here's the thing...MC Sharks, Mean Gene, Anonymous, Fatty Matt, the Professor and all the other HATE cohorts are a bunch of backwoods, gas-huffing, racist, homophobic, crack-doing, women-punching rednecks who drive ATVs recklessly and talk more shit than wrestlers.

...I am not MC Sharks. I mean, I AM, but I'm not. You know what I'm getting at. It's the persona I/we cultivate. Basically, a lot of people say it's impossible to offend anymore, but I think our music is a testament to the power of the English language to still piss people off. And yes, we could probably write some funny stuff about religion, but lots of rappers do that already. I don't think there's a lot of people who would dare to say some of the shit we do, and that's the point. Not to get philosophical or anything, but I think it would be a lot more effective to say these words until they mean nothing than to allow them to offend.

I don't really see a need to defend my actions, but you've consistently given me good reviews on here, and I just wanted to make sure you knew that it's just a really big joke. Yes, the HATE crew is made up of mostly insane, unstable weirdos, but we aren't anything like the things we say on record...

[glennny]

Hate Noise,

Yes, I knew those were personas. I didn't think you really believed everything you said. But WOW! Mission accomplished on being offensive. Those personas sound like they are Christians. That's the only other group that consistently offends me as much in much of the same directions.

I don't think you need to defend yourself at all. I think you succeeded wildly in what you set out to do. At the same time I can't really blast this song like I'd like to here in Alameda county. My friends and neighbors are gay and African American, I don't think the " they're saying it until it doesn't mean anything" would fly too well. I don't want to have that conversation. I just want our kids to play together nice.

I don't know, maybe I should have voted for you guys. I'm conflicted.

[glennny]

Here's my comment on Sammy Kablam's site:


My review of Sammy K’s reviews and video Shtick:

Pigfarmer Jr. : I enjoyed this review, I couldn’t bring myself to pay attention to the lyrics. I find it fascinating Sammy did. I think the comedy works well playing on the logic of the lyrics.

Berkeley Social Scene: Hey this is me. No mention of 7/8. “Song engineered by producers” that’s somewhat true and a little insightful. I’m impressed. “Early 90’s” is a fair comment but it’d be nice to know what makes it sound early 90’s. “Generic” means it didn’t excite Sammy, I don’t see how it’s generic however, it’d be nice to know if that was a mix, production, melody, or structure thing. The Cameron Diaz movie thing is funny.

Ken’s SDN&S: So Sammy spent a long time trying to come up with what song this reminds him of, but came up empty? That’s called a pop song. I don’t believe he really hates it. Ken also lobbed Sammy a softball with the “Yesterday” tag at the end. I was expecting a riff on the lyrical implications of the song negated by Yesterday. This was a weak review.

Sportswriters: This one Sammy does pure comedy writing. It’s pretty forced and not very funny. Here’s where he shows his true colors as a non-musician and a “writer” by calling this song pretentious.

Billy & the Psychotics: These were pretty funny descriptions. They were rather accurate, other than the “do whatever they want “ part. Sammy’s description makes me think “Wow, I really want to hear that” , but we’re supposed to believe he thinks it’s less than awesome.

Shambles: This is weak, and forced. Accent = Narnia dwarf? At least he plays it like he knows it’s weak.

Paco del Stinko: I have all of the Wiggles videos and albums (kids), and listen regularly to most of Paco’s catalog. I don’t get this comment at all. Not a very good review, I wonder why he thinks what he thinks here.

Dejected Motives: Hey did you take my suggestion? I think I suggested comparing songs to other songs they derive from. This was funny. Maybe the best review of the bunch. “It made me want a Mitsubishi”, that was funny.

Faight from Fire: M Shadows? Avenged Sevenfold? The clip has a similar melody. I wish Sammy would explain his comedy on this one. Which would kill the comedy. I suppose it’s best to keep it that way for those who get it. Sammy lost me on this review.


Hate Noise: This was an argument in 1985. It’s time to accept rap music samples other music. Sammy should listen to the original Walk Like a Man to hear the beat is different. All the racism and homophobia is left alone, and goes for the sample stuff? Weak!

Klownhole: This “sounds like a…” is pretty funny. The “fake metal band” bit is funny. However I don’t think it’s true, and it doesn’t give any insight. This one is alright.

Dirge and Sara: Why is this early 90’s? He’s pretty spot on, in this review. If this is misused vocals, how should it be used? The mutant adoption riff is a stretch.

Tye Lemery: He let that long intro pass? More descriptions of the clothing and fashions a songwriter wears rather than anything musical. Sammy desperately needs a music appreciation class. That said, the writing is pretty funny.

Monkey Touchers: Playing this as if it’s brilliant, was a good move. This was funny.


Sammy,

Last Negative Reinforcement? Boo! I think we get it. Just like I want everyone on Song Fight to be a better song writer and I appreciate the effort they put into making a song at all, I want you to be a better comedian/video maker. I want to tell you what works and what doesn’t. You of all people should be able to take the criticism. Who is really angry? If we don’t think you’re funny, that doesn’t mean we don’t get the joke.

Oh man, did you really have to go into a rap at the end? Painful. Where’s the beat so easily written, and the melody so interesting to go with your flowing lyrics so properly rhymed? The content was good.

“He’s not funny” and “logical fallacies” is not bile. You say you can take it as well as dish it, but you’re acting like you can’t take it. That bit was probably directed at me. I did respond with a list of criticisms and suggestions (which you listened to somewhat).

You’re right, you were promoting us by giving us attention at all. It sounds like you feel underappreciated for it. Well I for one appreciate it! I appreciate all the reviews, and all of the entries. I was a judge for Spin Tunes 2 and it is a very different community. They did not take kindly to any of my negative criticism, which I always thought was constructive. I’m amazed they responded kindly to you.

I hope you reconsider doing another Song Fight NR, I think you’re getting better! The laughs are worth the duds.

Sincerely ,

glennny

[sportswriters]

Hey, thanks for the reviews everyone and for taking my impatient review in the spirit it was intended.

To answer a few questions:

-- No, this song was absolutely composed for the songfight. You can see a video of the acoustic demo I recorded of it the day after I wrote it here:

http://vimeo.com/30748153

This is just me and the resonator guitar in Open G. I like this version much better even though I screw up the bridge because I haven't learned it yet.

The whole song came from me liking the line 'The cavary's coming... it has been for years' and then wondering who would say such a thing.

-- The big drum is an orchestral bass drum through a 7s reverb

-- Yeah, the vocals are pitchy. They always are with me when I record in phones. I've never figured out how to overcome it. I seem to be much better without them. I used to sing flat all the time in phones but managed to cure that. However now I sing mostly sharp...

-- I was surprised everyone hated the tierce de picardie (the change to the major chord at the end). Maybe it should go to a 5 chord (ie no third). Didn't want this to be a throatslitter.

-- Yeah, the reverb on the vocal is too much. I'm kind of crap at mixing so there's that.

-- the strings do sound fake. They're Native Instruments Session Strings which are great for pop but too marshmallowy for this kind of thing. I don't really like them. A pump organ or accordion would be much better.

[Billy's Little Trip]

http://spintown79.blogspot.com/2011/10/ ... ement.html

Sammy Kablam's latest review has been posted.

It's like if the yeah yeah yeahs, garbage and seven dust all had a child.....and it cut it's self. I 'bout peed myself.

[RangerDenni]

http://spintown79.blogspot.com/2011/10/ ... ement.html

Sammy Kablam's latest review has been posted.

It's like if the yeah yeah yeahs, garbage and seven dust all had a child.....and it cut it's self. I 'bout peed myself.

I feel we have Arrived.

[dirgetheband]

Berkeley Social Scene- ...So the elephant in the room (I thought) is that the song is in 7/8 and stays in 7/8 the whole song...

Sara and I were trying to figure out what you were getting at. I wondered if it had something to do with the "Blue Room" mentioned in the end, with intentional capitalization. We couldn't piece anything together, though. I did think in the back of my mind that the meter wasn't a standard 4/4 or 3/4, but I hardly consider that an "elephant in the room". When you grow up listening to death metal, non-standard time signatures aren't such a big deal. For example, one of my favorite metal songs ever is Cannibal Corpse's "Staring Through The Eyes Of The Dead". I think the opening riff actually alternates between 7/8 and 9/8 and ends up lending an almost lurching quality to the riff.

Check it out on the YouTubery: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k3IKyR1AcA

Cool lyrics, too. Reminds me of Johnny's Got His Gun by Dalton Trumbo. You know, just without all the allegory.

[RangerDenni]

Not that anyone asked, but I'm thinking this isn't a song that needs hookiness. I see waves of head banging through the whole thing, propelled by it's inertia. I don't see them ready to suddenly look up and pump their collective fist in the air, mouthing the chorus.

Roymond, I missed this last week. Combined with what Noah replied and also taking in mind Andy's thoughts and things from the other reviews - it did answer my question. I feel perhaps I had the right idea and could maybe tighten up or better enhance its presentation. Perhaps experiment with some other decisions. Dunno. That's what we're here for, to tighten up.
I dunno if I'll get to reviews, things are crazy here. Thank y'all lots as usual

[Pigfarmer Jr]

I loved the video review by Sammy Kablam. Of course, my entry was among the top ones deserving of such treatment.

[roymond]

-- Yeah, the vocals are pitchy. They always are with me when I record in phones. I've never figured out how to overcome it. I seem to be much better without them. I used to sing flat all the time in phones but managed to cure that. However now I sing mostly sharp...

Do you have one ear in the phones and one out? That usually fixes it. You have to hear yourself.

[glennny]

Dirge wrote:

.....non-standard time signatures aren't such a big deal.

You're right it's not such a big deal, for me it's Rush, Genesis, Yes, and Zappa. It's just I've submitted 165 songs to Song Fight , and every time (14 times) I've submitted a song in 7/8, 5/4, 11/8, 13/8 it's one of the 1st thing that comes up in the reviews. This time it didn't for some reason. I guess it's not an elephant, but I was anticipating it.

"Blue Room" is just outside.

That was a cool song. Those guys are monsters on their instruments, the Cookie Monster vocals always make me giggle. However, there are people who can't understand how I can take Geddy Lee or John Anderson's vocals seriously either.

[sportswriters]

-- Yeah, the vocals are pitchy. They always are with me when I record in phones. I've never figured out how to overcome it. I seem to be much better without them. I used to sing flat all the time in phones but managed to cure that. However now I sing mostly sharp...

Do you have one ear in the phones and one out? That usually fixes it. You have to hear yourself.

Yep, and I keep the volume low and turn off the bass and mute and instruments with pitch effects on and so on.

I've tried the trick of singing to the monitors instead of phones but doesn't seem to make any difference...

I can improve my pitch like this but I can do the same song in cans, and then record it just playing it live on an acoustic, and if I take it into autotune you can see my pitch is dead on without the cans and squirrelly with.

[roymond]

However, there are people who can't understand how I can take Geddy Lee or John Anderson's vocals seriously either.

Because Steve Howe was a fucking monster, that's how! Now...Geddy Lee...that's more difficult

[dirgetheband]

...I've submitted 165 songs to Song Fight , and every time (14 times) I've submitted a song in 7/8, 5/4, 11/8, 13/8 it's one of the 1st thing that comes up in the reviews.

Quick craft question: when you write a song in a non-standard time sig, do you start with percussion and then build the song from there? I've never written a guitar riff or a chord progression that wasn't in 3/4 or 4/4 that wasn't first governed by some off-kilter drum riff.

Also, thanks for the review. Both Sara and I appreciate the suggestions.

[sportswriters]

Not speaking for anyone else but I find with odd metres beyond 3/4 the easiest thing is to subdivide them.

eg 7/4 can be thought of as a bar of 4/4 followed by a bar of 3/4, or vice versa. or 3/4 + 2/4 + 2/4.

You can use words of two and three syllables (elephant, tiger) to get a handle on it very quickly.

5/4 - elephant, tiger, elephant, tiger

7/4 - elephant, tiger, tiger OR tiger, elephant, tiger and so on.

Even something as complicated as 15/8 can be split up like this very easily, e.g. three groups of three + three groups of two 'elephant elephant elephant tiger tiger tiger' or however you fancy

I like to get a strumming pattern going on the guitar or a little keyboard sequence and work from that. Or you can put in some hihats on the 8s and throw in an accent on the first beat of each word as above.

[roymond]

True meters aren't composites. Indian talas are in 12, or 15, or 16, etc. You can survive them by counting 4s or whatever, but that does not represent the meter. A piece in 7/8 may resemble 4+3 or 3+2+2, but the cycle is 7, pure and simple. Otherwise it's just a notational convenience.

[sportswriters]

Eh, well you might as well say that 12/8 isn't a true meter because it's four groups of three. It all depends on the way the notes are accented. I would venture to say that all the odd meters you encounter in rock and pop, with the exception of some of the outer limits of prog, and jazz, are more or less composites in the sense that they can be subdivided down into units of 2, 3 and 4, but with differences in the stresses placed on each musical syllable. Classical's obviously different... a bar of 5/4 in Debussy is 5/4 and that's that.

Anyway, once you have it going you can indeed start to feel the whole count as a unit. If you ever have to explain it to a musically illiterate drummer, the elephant tiger thing is *incredibly* useful.

One of my favourite bits of strange time is the Go-Between's Cattle and Cane which alternates 12/8 and 10/8, counted as (123 123 12 12 12) (123 123 12 12). I think the first phrase is a hemiola or something. Anyway, the odd thing is how normal it sounds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq1s6FCEoZM

[roymond]

Yeah, sorry. I didn't mean to be quite as obnoxious in presentation as I was. What I meant was...there are lots of ways to get familiar with "odd" meters (to 4/4 ears), but once you get beyond that, they are what they are...and not composites. Yes, a lot of 7/8 in rock and pop is simply 4+3, but a truly crafted piece is in 7...it flows in 7 and the players emphasize 7 in many subtle and significant ways (even if 4+3 is evident).

Debussy and others not only transcend this, but introduced true cyclical poly-metric relationships that are quite mind blowing. But there's no reason to apply any different approach to pop/rock music. I'll look up Go-Between's Cattle and Cane, and throw in Mahavishnu's Dance of Maya (from Cobham's point of view, not McLaughlin's).

[hillbilly]

Billy's Little Trip....and how is it that I understood you? Takes you a while, but your learning

[dirgetheband]

...there are people who can't understand how I can take Geddy Lee or John Anderson's vocals seriously either.

Speaking of quirky, progressive-type vocalists, please tell me you also listen to King Crimson. Specifically, the "Primary Color" era led by Adrian Belew. The ’81-’84 grouping of Discipline, Beat, and Three Of A Perfect Pair is one of my all-time favorite trios of consecutive studio albums, right up there with:

Metallica ’84-’88 - Ride The Lightning, Master of Puppets, ...and Justice For All
Thought Industry ’96-’01 - Outer Space is a Martini Away, Black Umbrella, Short Wave on a Cold Day
Slayer ‘86-’90 - Reign In Blood, South Of Heaven, Season In The Abyss
Tool ’93-’01 - Undertow, Anenma, Lateralus
Opeth ’98-’01 - My Arms Your Hearse, Still Life, Blackwater Park
King's X ’88-‘91 - Out of the Silent Planet, Gretchen Goes To Nebraska, Faith Love Hope

…and a bunch of others that I can’t name off the top of my head.

[roymond]

these are words with a D this time...