Besetzen Sie sprechen Deutsch (Man Speaking German Reviews)

[Jim of Seattle]

I realize that ideas can be borrowed, as we as musicians may borrow unconsciously at times, but if you knew this going in then, why? Why? Why? WHY?

I guess I don't get the question. Why write any piece of music, when it comes down to it? I started out thinking about Germans like Beethoven and Bach, and thought "Ooh, I'd like to do a piano suite like all those ones that Bach did", and then the idea of adding in lots of Germanic elements, and how that tied into the title, and away I went.

It's just an odd transference of energy from you with this Ants project. Especially after so many cool tunes. This one just seems a little too much of a stretch, especially over 9 minutes worth. Imagine boy and guitar tune for 9 minutes. Better be pretty darn good to hold my attention for 9 minutes.

9 minutes for this kind of piece is pretty short. Most piano suites are 20-30 minutes, so that doesn't hold water for me. But I did think seriously about the length, given the accepted norms of Songfight. Ultimately I decided that if I was going to be true to my vision that I had to see it through. In the Songfight paradigm it's long of course, but taken on its own it's really more of a "mini" suite.

I knew going in that it was going to be something of an uphill battle being so long and an instrumental, but I didn't set out to piss anyone off. I had a ton of fun doing it, and I think it probably came from a more honest place in me than most of my other songs. So I'm not going to try to defend it. It is what it is. Thanks for listening, those of you who get all the way through!

[sausage boy]

Sausageboy
I was waiting for someone to sample Adolf Hitler. I like the sound, but it's far too limited for a 1m25s piece.

Well, it was either Hitler or Kompressor... and I don't actually have any samples of Kompressor speaking German.

I was a little afraid that Hitler was a little too obvious, but then I figured it was so obvious that no one would use him.

[j$]

Ants (invisible) - nice johnny says - pretty. bad johnny says - noodly nature annoys me.

8LO and Leaf - nice rhythm section. Fun song. Words are a bit indulgent and rambling. Keeps promising to rawk out and but never does. Ah there it is! The last minute or so I would vote for a hundred times if it didn't have the first two in the way Good song, possible vote.

Fluid Probe Liaison - This is a great groove. Well mixed but the reed instrument (what is that?) is a bit too loud. i like the noodly jazz piano stuff. The chorus comes at just the time - there are maybe a few too major chords in there - i was expecting something a little sadder rather than the 'Musical' feel of it. Good mix. Possible vote for the bit at 3.00ish, although the song never reaches the heights from that point to the end - maybe end it there? Still possible vote.

Gregorian Pants -Excellent that kraftwerk get a heads-up. The vocals should be a lit louder and vocoded though. The nature of the song is a little fragmented. Finger clicks get an extra point from me. Me German (or lack thereof) means I miss the point of the lyric. Cute. This is a very good fight so far.

Me - I love Kompressor! The 'girl choir' is me multi-tracking (12 times over) and singing high.

Kapitano - OMD with amplifiers? I like a good thumbs-in-beltloops chugalong. This sounds great. The Status Quoisms you mention aren't too much at the forefront. Doesn't really go anywhere From about 1.30 onwards, but I could listen to this again, so ... good!

Landstanders - that is a MIGHTY background hum! Like the voice very much! You sound simultaneously like PJ Harvey and a 12 year old boy, which is a unique sound I like the story's dark nature. I kind a wish that loop was played on a piano rather than a guitar, but it stops just when I'm getting bored. I wouldn't want to hear this every week but it's a refreshing change.

Minty Handy - the moment this started I warmed to it - don't know why, but I love it. It's not my musical bag but it's all so well done. It's just a funky, lolloping melody that makes me shake my head from side to side. Maybe it's because it's as camp as tits possible vote.

Ross Durand - 'It's been a trying day' ... is a great line for this song. Indeed the chatty nature of the lyric is very appealing, although I'm not sure that the vocal delivery suits it entirely ... ah this very well done. I like it - though the swell at 1.30ish should be paid off with a rhythm section kicking in there.

Sausage Boy - is that a loop of the word 'german'? Actually I wanted a sample of Hitler for a bridge in my song and couldn't find any suitable ones ... I digress ...I am not particularly well disposed to this as you entered two songs ... and this feels like it's been dashed out. Overall it should be a 30 second intro to another song, but it's certainly not badly done (although the mix is a bit groggy)

Well, that was a good fight - streamed with A(I) starting and SB ending it makes for a really good song order, too. I enjoyed listening to it, and there's nothing here that I wouldn't listen to again. I think I'm going for Minty Handy because it's rare that I hear something and within 5 seconds I just love it.

[sausage boy]

Sausage Boy - is that a loop of the word 'german'? Actually I wanted a sample of Hitler for a bridge in my song and couldn't find any suitable ones ... I digress ...I am not particularly well disposed to this as you entered two songs ... and this feels like it's been dashed out. Overall it should be a 30 second intro to another song, but it's certainly not badly done (although the mix is a bit groggy)

I got a hold of The Residents 13th Anniversary Show, and have been listening to that quite a bit. This was the result of that, and a sample of Hitler.

[Jim of Seattle]

Funny, I was reminded of the Residents' "Third Reich and Roll" album in your song. I have the 13th Anniversary, but I can't remember if any 3rdRnR is on there.

[Ross]

Ok, sorry for the newbie question.

I see in the FAQ where they ask for just one song a week. But I'm wondering about the instrumentals, is there something formal about these or is it just a sort of unwritten rule that instrumentals ought not be submitted? Just a matter of opinion?

Also, should I be posting this question somewhere else? None of the discussion topics looked like the right place for this, and since folks are discussing the Ants (invisible) track this week it seemed appropriate.

Thanks.

[Kapitano]

I'm wondering about the instrumentals

The usual thinking here is that this is songfight, not musicfight, and songs have lyrics and singing. There's no rule (written or unwritten) against submitting instrumentals, but a lot of people here refuse to vote for them on principle. They'll still get reviewed though.

As for mulltiple submissions, there's no actual rule against it, but a lot of fighters regard it as impolite.

There's no forum for newbie questions, and this seems as good a place as any.

[Jim of Seattle]

A lot of people here refuse to vote for them on principle.

...which is, of course, ridiculous.

[tonetripper]

Most piano suites are 20-30 minutes, so that doesn't hold water for me.

But Jim this is Songfight! not Pianosuitefight!. It just seems rather gratuitous coming from you.

[Ross]

Wow! so the instrumental thing appears to be a sensitive spot. Here's something else I was wondering that I forgot to include in my previous post.

Why are the fights of various lengths? Last week we had 9 days, this time only six. Is this because our moderators have real lives and the fights work around their schedules or is there some other pattern/reason for the varying lengths?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions - I'm having a lot of fun at songfight!

[Bolio]

Most piano suites are 20-30 minutes, so that doesn't hold water for me.

But Jim this is Songfight! not Pianosuitefight!. It just seems rather gratuitous coming from you.

You know I'm starting to warm up to Tonetrippers ideas. Jim, this isn't your personal 'Sounding Board.' You put an extremely awesome piece of work in front of the World, How Could You???? We hereby demand you cut 4+ minutes out of your song. We hereby demand you at least speak the word 'German' at least once so it ties to the subject so we don't feel cheated. We hereby demand you add at least One Fucking Guitar to make Tonetripper happy!!!

After all Music isn't about freedom & sharing, it's about restrictions & censorship. I'm deleting the Invisible Ants song from my Songfight folder & quit listening to it all day because Jim, you cheated.

[Bolio]

Wow! so the instrumental thing appears to be a sensitive spot. !

For some folks. I happen to be against Boy+Guitar personally.

Length of fights

Generally one week. Check out the dates in the archives to get the full story.

[Kapitano]

Wow! so the instrumental thing appears to be a sensitive spot.

Some of us here object to instrumentals. Some think synthesisers aren't real instruments. And some take an instant dislike to lovesongs. There's no end to the restrictions people can invent for themselves.

Don't try to write for 'the songfight audiance', because there isn't one - we're quite a diverse bunch. Just make music you'd like to hear.

Why are the fights of various lengths? Last week we had 9 days, this time only six.

Variable lengths is a recent innovation, and I think a good one. Because there are those of us (like The Sober Irishman and your good self) who can produce a song in a day, and others for who a week isn't long enough.

[Freudian Slip]

Wow! so the instrumental thing appears to be a sensitive spot. Here's something else I was wondering that I forgot to include in my previous post.

Why are the fights of various lengths? Last week we had 9 days, this time only six. Is this because our moderators have real lives and the fights work around their schedules or is there some other pattern/reason for the varying lengths?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions - I'm having a lot of fun at songfight!

Glad to have you among us-- Welcome. Warning:. The following paragraphs include NO reviews of actual songs. Scroll at your own discretion, and remember-- please read responsibly.
You are right. For SOME people, especially , it would seem-- of late.

Actually, this particular debate is not a new one, the relevance of it, for some, relates to the fact that an instrumental could potentially have been created ANYTIME-- from the past week to the past decade, because there are NO words to describe the idea-- the music alone stands to support it. In some cases, instrumentals are just as effective as words for creating a mood or portraying an idea. Take for example a song such as "In the Mood". It's content as surely reflects the emotion presented in the title, possibly even more so, that any words might have supported the sentiment.

Movie scores, also contain unspoken, yet stated emotional content, sometimes whispering it gently into the listeners ear as they watch the scene before them unfold. (Fantasia is one of my all time favorite examples of this, it relies on the music to speak its intent, and without the music to support it the entire structure of the film would crumble.) though at the moment given the other things currently on my mind, I cannot think of the perceptual cross wiring that allows a person to experience sound as color and texture on a nearly tactile level. this movie for me, lives as an illustration of how many things can be defined with far more than words.

There are many people attendant in this community, some you will enjoy the company, some-- You will not. Of course, such is no different than going anywhere else in the world. You will make friends, be ignored, be lauded, and occasionally find yourself extremely disliked by some you chance to encounter. In order to exist without walling yourself up in your own solitude, you must take it upon yourself and be willing to accept that any or all of the aforementioned things will occur at some point in your life.

It is however, my view, that Song Fight exists as a place that allows us to share things that each of us, in out own artistic capacity find to be of beauty and inspiration to ourselves.

But much like all things in existence, beauty and and all the meaning implicit in the word, is within the personal experiences and perceptions of each of us. the things we have seen, the things we have known the things we strive to attain. Regardless of what create from the knowledge we have gained or the things in the world around that we have employed to construct that vision in order to share it with others. A house, a photograph, a painting, a song, or anything else that a person can make from the world around them, by the very act of its construction contains within something the artist has perceived as beautiful or otherwise emotionally evocative. Whether or not you can see the same picture the artist held in their mind while creating, it is just as much about your ability to understand the world around as it is the artists ability to portray it.

BTW-- You will also come to discover that the realm of Song Fight exists at the whim of the fight masters. They put a great effort and love into maintaining the place we all now share. Life itself is uncertain, as much as the time we have to live it. Such is no different here than anywhere else.
If you take the time to peruse the threads you will discover there is far more here than the weekly roster posted would suggest. there are challenges to make an entire album within a single day within some of the threads, there are also other projects of vastly varying length and duration that you may also choose to participate in, as time and inspiration allows.
Hang around, enjoy the show, and the vast diversity contained in this little world. Once again. welcome to Song Fight, I hope you enjoy your stay

[tonetripper]

We hereby demand you add at least One Fucking Guitar to make Tonetripper happy!!!

After all Music isn't about freedom & sharing, it's about restrictions & censorship. I'm deleting the Invisible Ants song from my Songfight folder & quit listening to it all day because Jim, you cheated.

I don't have a problem with instrumentals at all being songs. In fact I have heard a couple on SF that have very much indicated the title for me. Lonbobby posted one that was great. I also don't really have a problem with Jim submitting a virtuosic piece. So I resent your sarcasm on the topic. But while were at it at least add some drums too.

I was merely answering Jim's question from that particular post. He, himself stated that it's a piano suite. The operative word being suite which HE stated. I just question the reasoning for posting a piece such as this for songfight when obviously it's a suite not a song. Someone's got to needle at the JoS man. He knew going in what he was in for. And for the record I have never said I didn't like it or appreciated it for what it is. I just question it's merit in an on-line competition called Songfight!! Should I submit a Super 8 film to a 35 mm film festival? Sure, I guess, one could say it's bucking at the norm, but simply it's not what the title implies. I'm not for restrictions or censorship and I resent being labled as such, even if it is comedic sarcasm pushing it in that direction. I also want it to be stated that I don't think the piece should be struck from the competition, because it's a suite. I just think that if the artist is going to put it out there knowing the community as he does in regards to this manner then he should answer to the call of the bell. I never said I didn't appreciate the piece. From my perspective it's not a song and seems like a vehicle to expose obvious talents.

My reviews to follow.

[Kapitano]

BTW, I'm currently suffering from The Curse of Cashpoint. It happens every time he submits something. I listen to it and think "Yeah, it's pretty good". Then two days later it's wheeling around and around in my brain.

Oh, and how about an optional challenge one week to produce an instrumental?

[tonetripper]

Also for the record I consider Jim a friend. Friends question friends. For that matter I'd like to think we're all friends. That's why we discuss.

I'm gonna throw up now cuz that was one mushy piece of crap.

[Kamakura]

I'm currently suffering from The Curse of Cashpoint.

I get that. I find banging my head on the fridge door helps.

[Leaf]

Man, I get SO frustrated when you all flood the thread with ....conversation....


REVIEWS????


...uuummmm [/hypocrite]

[Jim of Seattle]

Also for the record, I'm not bugged by Tonetripper's complaints. Well, OK, I'm a little bugged I guess, but not much. Sure I could have written a regular song last week, as I usually do, but the inspiration took me a different way, and I think it's far better to submit something that was borne of inspiration rather than force something else for the sake of it being a quote-unquote "song". Hell, I was just happy I was coming up with something I liked. Sure, I knew going in I was going to stir something up, but it didn't occur to me that it would sound like showing off. If it does that makes me feel really bad.

Oh, and Freudian Slip, "In the Mood" does have words. The famous renditions of it don't use them, though.

Reviews of all 4 fights coming.
* 5-hour plane ride
* Ipod
* Laptop
* Ton of Songfight fun

[Freudian Slip]

Oh, and Freudian Slip, "In the Mood" does have words. The famous renditions of it don't use them, though.

Thanks, for pointing that out, Jim. You are, of course, right.
Upon reflection, my grandmother had an unusually large collection of Big Band Music, it was among the type she favored. Among the works, was a rendition of "In the Mood" which contained words.
Personally, I've always preferred the version that didn't.

My comments earlier in this thread, regardless of the reason of the resurrection of this debate, relate to the question at hand, if I did not make that point abundantly clear before, I will do so now. Whether or not I like a song OR its content or even the person responsible for bringing it into existence, I could no more deny them the right to create something that they enjoy or perceived value in, than I could accept it if some were to attempt to impose the same restrictions on me.

I have also found that the reviews are more indicative of those who write them than they are about the song currently in question. Pick ANY song as you wish in this forum and read EVERY review relating to it and you will find that no one shares completely the same opinion on the song currently under scrutiny. One might say... It's compressed too much-- I can't even LISTEN to this, the next review of the very same song will suggest that further compressing it might have been beneficial. The drums were too loud, too soft, the drums were the perfect, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.
If we all shared the same idea of what beauty and perfection entailed why would we require a place to discuss what we found to be beautiful? To vote on what we considered to be best? To not have differing opinions would refute the very purpose for which Song Fight exists.

I recall mentioning, quite recently, in fact, that ANY belief (no matter what the frame of reference) is only as strong as the people willing to defend what is dear to them, even in the face of adversity. I am not compelling ANYONE to stand beside me in my beliefs, or come to my defense. I require NO assistance and ask for NONE.

Even if the fightmaster or administrators feel compelled to remove my words from this thread-- And, it IS their RIGHT to determine the relevance to the community. However, such would only remove my words from within your views, never mine.
Please pardon this interruption to our regurally scheduled reviews, and allow me to return you to the REVIEW thread, already in progress.

DEAR LEAF,
THIS SPACE HAS BEEN RESERVED FOR OPINIONS RELATED TO SPECIFIC SONGS

[Ross]

Fluid Probe Liaison - I try as best as I can to review the song and avoid spending too much time on performance and production, but in this case I’m having a hard time accessing the song because the vocals are getting in the way, their also a little low in the mix, which compounds the problem. You think he said “there’s a man speaking german”? Or do you think the man is speaking German? I am honestly not sure. Didn’t engage me, sorry.

The Landstander(s) – I really like how this gets started – the minimal approach serves the concept of stretched time. “You lost me at ‘Stop speaking german’” I thought it was a sort of horror song and it would have worked great that way, but that line camps it up.

Beef Animals – I really like the sound of this, but I will admit that even after looking at the lyrics I still have trouble decoding them and any relation they may have to the concept of a man speaking German except for his brief inclusion in the first verse. But I like the composition a lot and I think the word work is pretty interesting

Kapitano – Excellent. The music, performance, and production fits the content great, of course. I don’t speak German either, so your translation was fine with me. Writing rhymes in another language seems like a challenge.

Ross Durand (me) – Amazing how many versions a song can go through in a week. But here’s the one I settled on. One of the challenges of songfight for me is to take the title and create a song that sits comfortably with the rest of my repertoire and I think I’ve accomplished that here. I wish I had a few more hours of time to add a few instruments and a backing vocal – but that’s all part of the challenge isn’t it?

Minty Handy – “Francophile” that would be an excellent title all by itself. I like the way you incorporate the voice of the man speaking German. One of the best story songs I’ve heard in the two weeks I’ve been doing this (and there seem to be a lot of story songs out here). I could imagine hearing this and not thinking it was about the title. Great Job. A fun listen, well crafted/

Johnny Cashpoint – Nice homage (spoof?) to German techno. Good rhymes. The spelling of Kompressor works great. Now if you can just figure out how to spell it with your arms this will be a huge wedding hit! Another excellent one. This fight is going well.

Ants (Invisible) – Ah the source of all the talk. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I have read the discussions of this already, so I know what the intent was and am unable to give my immediate reation. So here comes the tainted reaction. While the bass line at the beginning suggests moonlight sonata, it also suggests “Colour my world” (major seven chords in particular, and the rolled chords sound harmonically too 20th century (and russion) for my taste. The second “movement” has a Phillip Glass sound to me – he’s American, I believe. The counterpoint is great and is an excellent homage to Bach, but the book end pieces don’t sound very German to me. Third Movement: Pretty jazzy – sounding more French or polish to me (Chopin/Liszt) neat rhythms. It seems that Jazz is a more French than german thing to me. (Note: I believe I would have thought this was French sounding with or without the previous knowledge of the composer’s intent) Slow movement (Fourth?) very pretty. Fifth ?Movement (with the ragtime feel) see previous notes regarding jazz re:german-ness. I enjoy it a lot, But am losing my suspension of disbelief that this all relates to the title. You are clearly very able, and I am impressed that this was composed in a week. As a newbie, I also appreciate the controversy it has caused because it has allowed me to learn more about the community. A great question of all art is how the non-creators perceive the piece in relation to artist intent. An interesting pastiche, but for me, not a Man Speaking German.

Gregorian Pants: another reference to German techno. I don’t speak German, so the words are not accessible to me. The harmonies work well. But not being able to decode the words is getting between me and the song – which doesn’t have to be the case. I was a huge fan of Falco’s Commissar well before I heard the English version by After The Fire, for instance. Good sounds, though.

Sausage Boy – I figured there would be a Hitler reference out there – I almost referred to Kennedy, myself. I think this is pretty effective but I personally question whether it is a “song.” In fact I wonder why people aren’t debating this more than the Ants piece. This is essentially sound effects with a news reel. An effective use of sound effects with a news reel, but is it a “song.” I’m going to have to say no.

So not counting me (I like my song, but duh) I think I’m rooting for Kapitano or Mindy Handy with a serious consideration of J$

Good fight – lots of variety, lots to think about.