FatherBingo: Nice melodic work threwout. I liked the arrangement, but the foley/realworld sounds confused me. Are the crowd noises supposed to be war noises? Why did I get back on the boat at the end? Maybe if it had lyrics It would have made sense!
Pegor: me, I was trying to start out with an Irish folk music sound (failed) and have it transition threw variation to a bluesy/American improvistaion with a lot of references to the star spangled banner. I had trouble getting the parts to feel related. I was hoping the general themes and tonality would make the parts feel simular. I flubbed some fingering in the first gtr part and my Korg D12 made a pop and screwed up the levels, and my dog ate my homework.
"Fake" !?!! I'd rather be "wacky". None of it's fake. Every twang and thump is hand made. I miked the mandolin directly into a chorus pedal and then to my 12track that had an effect on all the tracks it calls smooth room'. I dont have enough reference to know if that's wacky.
Andre: I liked it. the cough kinda lets you know how to take it. Has some funny lines. It's to long.
AstroLamb: I have to listen to your lamb songs at least twice, once for the cool guitar and once to come to terms with the vocals. The guitar is great and dirty, there is some Korn sounding off tune whammy bar humping in one place that Im not a fan of - just a personal taste thing. The lyric is great too, Im even getting used to your singing. It sounded like you punched in a vocal at 2:15 or so with the level to low.
Beresfordians: Nice intro, Nice chord progression, good voice, damn! If Dave Mathews and Neil Diamond ever have a kid he'll sound like you ,a truly disturbing image, but a nice voice. I wish the chorus and the verse sounded a little less alike. A well played guitar and a good voice get a possible vote.
Blind Mime Ensemble with Tapegerm: The all-alone door bell thingy reminds me of Radiohead for some reason. I don't think you should have sung over it. The voice sounded like a good singer who hadn't warmed up enough- ya know that 'good pipes but straining for the notes a little' sound. I'm not a big fan of the electronic sounds but, the lyric is interesting and it all works.
desolation radio: That laid back style with somtimes harsh lyrics is a cool combination. Kinda like a dozeing muttering crazy guy who all the sudden makes eye contact with you. I wish it had done something different dynamically even if just for a bridge sorta thing. What! I don't even rate a review, tshh thanks dude!
Hans Gruber: hi, not my cupOtea - im not qualified to review it. probably 'cause I was listening to ZEPPLIN during the devo years.
noah mclaughlin: The lyrics had a good narative quaility, is Poland really warm and sweet? Im just asking. The singing didn't click for me might be a pitch thing. the rythm guitar worked well.
Senza: The vocals should be higher in the mix. I liked it.
stubbyphillips: Wow, what a voice. If you had given me a soulful guitar or piano break I would of held up my lighter up and bought a teeshirt on the way out. good stuff - voteable
Toothless Blonde: The rhymes in the chorus seem like they're there just because the words rhyme. the Sparce, single note, backing stuff works nice.
X-Tokyo River God: good god man turn off that throbbing bass thing before I chew off my own ears. uh ahem, interesting stuff, and it mostly works for me
I liked Stubby Phillips, Beresfordians, and FatherBingo(HEY just shutup man!) . my chad hangs from stubby.
pegor wrote:What! I don't even rate a review, tshh thanks dude!
oh hell! sorry. ya know i did listen to it and liked it. looking over my notes this is what i was thinking upon 1st listen;
pegor
another appropriate instrumental with another irish feelin jig - oh - now it's going blues. cool trans. come on drums start kickn'.
and here is my updated ver.
pegor
one kickass song that shouldn't be missed!!!!!!!!
damn - i can belive i did that but - damn
not everyone is going to like, understand or care about what you've recorded. some people are polite listeners, some will stroll away during playback, some will talk, some will tell you who you sound like, and a precious few will ask to hear it again
I can't listen to the songs at work and review other people's stuff, but I can respond to reviews of my stuff:
nyjm wrote:the vox seem swallowed on the edges; i would like to hear them more distinctly; this is especially true of the last verse: i can't make out a thing
Wait - you WANT to hear them more? Whoa. Yeah - the last verse didn't come off as I had planned - I can put the distorted vox down to a bad decision.
nyjm wrote:good rock-out chorus
Thanks. I try to rock, it just doesn't always work out that way.
dre wrote:midi drums in the background
Oh - it's even worse than that. I couldn't get the MIDI to work quite right (that's 5% effort, 95% not caring enough about MIDI to really try), so the drums you hear are coming straight out of my Casio keyboard into the mix. I recommend this approach to everybody.
blindmime wrote:The last solo part during the long fadeout is really good, much better than the first little thing.
Thanks!
desolation radio wrote:this is fairly rock'n
That's what I'm here for.
desolation radio wrote:i'd like to hear the vocals up front a bit
So it seems that the consensus is that I should bring the vocals forward, or (the more common opinion) not bring them at all. I'll see how it works for next week's fight if I can get one done in time.
smalltown mike wrote:The heavy part at 0:44 isn’t as heavy as it should be
You are correct. I was working on getting that part beefed up a bit, but I didn't get it done before the deadline. Expect heaviness in the near future though.
smalltown mike wrote:This is to say I care enough to hear a punchier mix. I like the ending.
Sweet - thanks!
daj workenhorse 1 wrote:The vocals aren't something I'd listen to on purpose
Yeah. I know . . . I don't like them either, but until someone else wants to sing I'm stuck with them.
pegor wrote:I have to listen to your lamb songs at least twice, once for the cool guitar and once to come to terms with the vocals
Sweet - thanks for taking the time!
pegor wrote:there is some Korn sounding off tune whammy bar humping
Not a whammy bar in the house, but I know what you are referring to. I like to call it "something should be here, but I'm not 100% sure what."
Thanks to everyone so far - I'll try to get around to returning the favor this weekend.
Okay, back home for the weekend, and in a much better mood.
Father Bingo
Nice foghorn, solid mix, although the hi-hat-ish cymbal/shaker feels weak (quality, not volume) against the gravity of the other instruments. Instrumental, but this (thanks to the aforementioned gravity and foghorn) does quite a good job of evoking the title for me; I can easily visualize the long shuffling lines of immigrants and the endless opening, stamping and closing of passports. Nice to have: an occasional faint outburst from an administrative voice that you can't quite make out. The drums at 1:57 work very well. I would have liked to hear the primary guitar riff change to support it, though. Overall a good piece.
Toothless Blonde
Get a pop filter for your microphone. This evokes Father Bingo's piece quite a bit for me, by the way. Occasional audio "beep beep"s are, I assume, something that creeped in during mp3 compression; keep an ear out for that. Now, to the song: This doesn't have any more variety than FB's piece, but having lyrics lowers my tolerance for repetition; I'd like to hear a lot more variation in your melody line. Overall, it's like a MIDI version of FB's song with repetitive lyrics and no atmosphere. Still, that's good company to keep. For your next song, focus on introducing vocal melody variation, perhaps a bridge, and instrumental breaks here and there. You have potential.
Senza
From Toothless Blonde to this, it's a festival of goth intro. Oops, but the vocal is happier than that; an interesting contrast. Around 46 seconds, it shifts to goth Irish, and the vocal contrast makes a lot more sense; that's a good choice for the title. I suggest the following for improvement: production-wise, alter your approach to make everything less muddy and echo-chambery, and add more vocal and drum presence. Songwriting-wise, it needs a solid rousing chorus to break things up and add drama. Oh, and like Toothless Blonde's piece, instrumental breaks here and there. Nicely done.
Blind Mime and The Tape Germ Collective
Casio keyboardists of the world unite! This makes my MIDI stuff seem live by comparison, but at least you're not being apologetic. Lyrically, here's my problem with this song: it feels like it was a completely different song with completely different lyrics, rewritten for this title (I'm not saying you ACTUALLY did that; that's just the impression it leaves for me). I have said in the past that singing sad lyrics against a happy background is a good thing, and I still stand by that; however, to pull that off, the lyrics need to seem happy on the surface, and only reveal their sadness when you sit and think about them. Here, "I need to find my Ellis Island" is (for me, at least) impossible to interpret in a happy way. Mind you, by itself it's a great arrangement, complex and joyful, and I really enjoyed it. The solo at 2:10 is great musically, by the way, but I would have chosen a harsher instrument, since the rest of the piece is so trebly and edgy.
Stubby Phillips featuring Dr. Water
Is the woman "Stubby Phillips" or "Dr. Water"? A lovely voice that fits neither of those names. By-the-book song structure, which is (so far) rare in this fight and much appreciated. Lyrically, vocally, and instrumentally, it's all very solid and well done here. I only have two things to say: A bump in tempo would have been much appreciated, and a soaring string instrument might have been used in certain places to add richness. Oh, and around 2:40 it starts to fall apart, as the lyrics become a hammer starting there. From that point on, dropping the "Ellis Island" (say, "Can't you see the promise in my eyes/Don't break my dreams/Won't you pass me to the promised land/Let me dream") would have been a much more effective approach. Very well done overall, I enjoyed it.
Desolation Radio
First chord, and I thought "yay, a more upbeat number", but when you started singing, it became The Violent Femmes on quaaludes. Mind you, it's a very nice voice (my wife says "not Michael Stipe, but the other REM guy who sings"). On the Jackie O line, you sound like Rufus Wainwright first thing in the morning. I guess what I'm trying to say is that vocally and musically it sounds like you're all asleep; assuming this is intentional to create a certain mood, it isn't creating that mood for me. Otherwise, look at Toothless Blonde's feedback about vocal melody variation, as much of it applies here. At 2:32, I finally picked up on an early Liz Phair vibe; is that what you were going for? If so, you nailed it with the arrangement.
Astrolamb
Throughout this fight, I have been thinking "why is everyone doing A-B-A-B chords, what happened to A-B-C-D?" and now I know the answer; it doesn't suit the title. Or at least it doesn't in this song until the chorus, which is rockin' and cool, although your voice is a bit too country and wandering to sync up with the tight rhythm section. With a backing band this tight, find the right notes and hit them, and match the band's changes; you're floating your notes across chord changes so that you're in key at the start, and at the end, but in the middle you get left behind. What's up with your voice at 2:22? Odd choice. Same with the sudden volume drop at 2:44. Other than those two quibbles, production here is solid. Nice work.
Pego
Good atmosphere, although the drums were overlapped with the start of the guitar such that it feels out of time. It's hard to simulate a Bodrhan drum without actually having one, but you're doing a pretty good job. Other than that, it just kind of wanders around being nothing particularly interesting. Sometimes things that are fun to play aren't things that are fun to listen to; I've made this mistake more than once myself.
Hans Gruber: Ultimate Villian
With a hearty "1...2...3...4!" I expected more to kick in. Hello, hello! This is silly, so you know I like it. "Malaria" and "America". Heh. I liked this lyrically except for the "Immigration is an energy" line, which doesn't live up to the whimsy of the other lyrics. This is a unique song, and good. I can't recall if your other work is like this, with the "Hello, hello!" and whatnot; it feels like a signature piece. For your next one, harder rock drums, please, but mostly this is great. Okay, by the end, the "Immigration is an energy" line grew on me. I have no idea why. So far, it's between this and Stubby Phillips featuring Dr. Water for my vote.
Noah McLaughlin
Read my feedback to Astrolamb regarding the melody line; you are your own backing band, of course, but you're going places on your guitar that your voice just isn't following, and for me this is ruining what is otherwise a decent song. Nothing special to make it stand out, though. One nice thing about your work is it's always well-produced; you and your guitar always sound exactly like they should. Other than the relevant feedback in Astrolamb's section, I also want to say that bland lyrics can be carried by a good song, but the best lyrics can't save a song that is boring to listen to. My advice (which, obviously, is just my unlearned opinion and can thus be ignored if desired) is to spend less time writing your lyrics and more time selecting chord changes and melody lines that are interesting in and of themselves.
The Bersfordians
Gee whiz; right after I praise Noah's production, you raise the bar. That's a really rich guitar sound, and your voice sounds beautiful. If I could play and sound like this, my upcoming "Brand New Car" would be a lot better than it currently is. As story songs go, this is a good one. I have no advice for you whatsoever; the only thing wrong with this song is that I don't particularly enjoy this kind of song, but to heck with me. Good stuff. Best song about a whore I've heard in a long time. Well, okay, I have one quibble: by halfway through, it gets musically quite boring. Nothing a backing band wouldn't cure. Noah, I want you to sound like this, and you're not far away. Current lead for my vote.
x-tokyo-river-god
I'm always afraid yours will have that creepy voice in there, makes me hesitate before clicking your links. Heh. What the -- this sounds like J$. Is this a compilation? This is a really strong piece from a production standpoint, I like the MIDI strings, and I love the vocal delivery (esp. starting at 1:16); that's also when the lyrics get really good. However, I can't help but wish that the arrangement underneath the vocals were more like The Clash, while retaining the MIDI strings. That would have been a rockin' good winner of this fight. As-is, it's not the strongest piece in the field. Occasional awkward lyrics (the second "Prepare", "assail") could be trimmed, if you've got a pair of scissors. I enjoyed this.
Andre Was Here At Midnights (Midnights? Is that a typo?)
At midnights, andre needs a lozenge. Whoa whoa whoa. This makes me think of x-tokyo-river-god's entry with a lot of the production and lyric and vocal delivery quality ripped out. It's not a bad song, mind you, cute and endearing actually. You obviously enjoyed making it, and I enjoyed listening to it. Like the strings in x-'s piece, I like the horns here, although for an entirely different reason. Despite the timing issues at 2:21, I wish the song had started there. Er, wait; the timing issues are starting to mount. Okay, were you guys drunk when you did this? A fun noodle, but otherwise unremarkable. Over five minutes? Really? Why?
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Good stuff. The Bersfordians take it for me, but ther's a lot of good stuff here. And yet, nothing going in my mp3 collection. Sigh. I am fickle.
I should have put this isn the pre-fight thread, but last year I had found my grandparent's names on the ship manifest of the S.S. Imperator, which brought them to Ellis Island in 1920.
roymond.com | songfights | covers
"Any more chromaticism and you'll have to change your last name to Wagner!" - Frankie Big Face
dre wrote:++ love the guitar work here, especially the soft panned guitar
-- your vocal tone overpowers the guitars, the vocals can be brought down in the mix, but I think is more of a tone mismatch problem, or me.
++ OK lyrics.
thank you. i find myself using that kind of strumming rhythm rather often, maybe too often but i like it. since i'm not a strong singer, i have a tendency to follow the lowest note of each chord, so sometimes the timber/tone of the my vocals get swallowed up. i'm rather proud of these lyrics; i don't usually write about my family.
blindmime wrote:I'm not a big fan of this kind of hard-panned guitar arrangement. I find it better if they capture more of the natural sound of the space between them while still being separate. I like the loose feel of the vocals.
there seems to be a very split opinion of my panning; it's something new that i'm still trying out. how would i go about "captur[ing] more of the natural sound of the space between them"? especially since there is no natural space: i recorded them myself at different moments but at the same place in front of the same mic.
desolation radio wrote:the 2nd guitar on the right isn't the most interesting but that's okay cuz were listening to the story. and then... she is at the dock and ... something mumbled ... we will never know.
yeah, i wanted a little high-note guitar lick (which i feel is becoming a little signature in my arrangements), but this one wasn't as inspired as others i've done (i think my best are on the hope, oath and suspicion songs i've done with EightLegged Oedipus, but that's largely due to his very cool production.) also, i just repeat the first verse at the end, so, she comes to ellis island and raises her son in buffalo. the story ends with me.
Smalltown Mike wrote:I would turn the subtle guitar in my right ear up, I think it’s interesting. Maybe electric guitar there. I like the guitar; I’m not as enthralled by the vocals/story.
and more split opinions. i'd love to add some electric guitar to this, but i don't have one, so hey.
Daj Werkenhorse 1 wrote:The vocals sound a little too dramatic, I like the second guitar in the R channel
too dramatic? lyrically or the harmonies? maybe the harmonies on the chorus are a bit much.
pegor wrote:The lyrics had a good narative quaility, is Poland really warm and sweet? Im just asking. The singing didn't click for me might be a pitch thing. the rythm guitar worked well.
Poland can be warm and sweet in the summer, but i was just trying to exemplify that blanche's family and friends didn't think it was a good idea to go. it took a great deal of courage to just pack up and leave for the unknown.
MintyHandy wrote:Read my feedback to Astrolamb regarding the melody line; you are your own backing band, of course, but you're going places on your guitar that your voice just isn't following, and for me this is ruining what is otherwise a decent song. Nothing special to make it stand out, though. [...] spend less time writing your lyrics and more time selecting chord changes and melody lines that are interesting in and of themselves.
it doesn't help that i really can't sing very well. however, i can arrange and write melodies for the guitar, so why not for the vocals as qell. i'll try working on that. i do, however, think that this has an interesting chord progression for the chorus: Am-F-C-G; the chorus is pretty simple I IV V in G, but that was intentional b/c i wanted it to be simpler and catchier. i've always been more drawn to good lyrics rather than good melodies (c.f. ani difranco, leonard cohen, even bob dylan), but it's true that when good lyrics and interesting melodies come together it's even better.
MintyHandy wrote:One nice thing about your work is it's always well-produced; you and your guitar always sound exactly like they should.
thank you. nice, clear production is something that i have only recently gotten a good grip on, and it's still quite a step considering i just record with a cheap $10 mic and a laptop. yay for minimalism.
so, let's review:
- split opinions on the panned arrangement. i tend to like it, but considering there's not a ton of things going on here, perhaps less panning would serve it better.
- interesting lyrics, but could be made much better with a good melody.
- the guitar noodling is also (possibly) interesting, but could be improved and probably then brought up in the mix.
blindmime wrote:I'm not a big fan of this kind of hard-panned guitar arrangement. I find it better if they capture more of the natural sound of the space between them while still being separate. I like the loose feel of the vocals.
there seems to be a very split opinion of my panning; it's something new that i'm still trying out. how would i go about "captur[ing] more of the natural sound of the space between them"? especially since there is no natural space: i recorded them myself at different moments but at the same place in front of the same mic.
With this kind of recording you probably want the natural space.
Panning the guitars hard left and right often sounds unnatural (sometimes that's intended). It's certainly not always the case (sometimes it woks). It was quite common in the 60's/70's to isolate instruments that way, but usually when things are isolated they're not often the focal point in the instrumental arrangement (it's more atmospheric; don't know if that makes sense). You would probably rarely isolate a drum set entirely to one side, for instance. I know it's not the same thing, but it sorta is.
Usually what you really want with two guitars and a vocal is to make it sound like there are two guitarists playing at the same time in a room. Since you hear them at the same time in the recording. You want to make it sound like they are, in fact, sitting on either side of the microphone. Hard panning them doesn't do that. It might make sense that left speaker is one guitar and right speaker is the other and once both are flying through space that takes care of the natural spread (and that's sorta true), but you get an entirely different effect with headphones. Some people like that effect, mind you.
To a more natural effect, you can pan the two (if recording mono) not so hard left and right, if you only have one mic. Often the best solution is to record with two mics in a Y pattern in stereo. That way you capture most of guitar A and some of guitar B in the left and vice versa. In that case you often hard pan the stereo spread of each take so each take bleeds a little into the other.
There is no absolute way to record anything, however, and this is only one way. Some people have recorded 4 parts, doubling each of the two and working the bleed with a pan. Watch for phasing in that case. Also, listen to some of your favorite records that have the same kind of instrumentation and try to hear what's coming out in the mix and where.
Stubby Phillips and Dr. Water take a bow and thank all for their comments, suggestions, and votes!
We wrote the lyrics, then the good Doctor worked out the chords and vocal melody, and then she played the guitar and sang while I hit the buttons -- all in the span of about 3 hours. I added the piano the next night. If it were always this easy, I / we wouldn't have 10 - 15 "almost - finished" SongFight songs on the hard drive! I guess simplicity IS better...
Yeah, the "Ellis Island" refrain was too long, and the tempo was a little slow, and "They say that the land is free" would have been better than "...free and bold" in hindsight, but I guess it worked out anyway.
