SongFighter Cover Thyself due June 18, 2005

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:13 pm

the brainpipe entry was originally a solo hinc song.
http://www.songfight.org/artistpage.php ... rtkey=date
craig offered to help me out with the remake.
-bill

nyjm · Post by **nyjm** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:25 am

snarl. the internet hates me. re-sent the link (that works, dammit!) to the fightmaster. and just to faciliate things:

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/n/j/n ... odynow.mp3

this is a better version than what i originally submitted anyway: it's got heuristics inc.'s special touch (check out those drums on the chorus. oh yeah.)

nyjm · Post by **nyjm** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:03 am

since i don't know any of the originals, i reviewed both versions; helps me to appreciate the "cover".

Johnny Cashpoint "Across the Dusty Plains"
old
- fun chorus melody
- love the cheapy-sounding guitar lick
new
- the vox have been tightened and cleaned; the doubling is great
- the cheapy-sounding guitar has been replaced by a great twangy electric riff
- the "ice cubes in his rectum" line always makes me flinch

King Arthur "Waiting Takes Time
old
- rocks out from beat one
- love it when your voice gets gravel-y
- i wonder if the lead guitar part needs to be there all the time? perhaps if it just had more cohesive structure
new
- the lead guitar is more understated and concentrated and that's exactly what it needed
- but the solos could be louder
- smoother, but rocks out a little less; there seems to be less urgency to the rhythm guitar

The Hell Yeahs "So Kind Stacey"
old
- love the chorus: pure punk rock head-banging moment
- should be on the "Heathers" soundtrack
- could use a solo; too short! more rock!
new
- i wonder if faster is better?
- louder IS better

Feldspar "Bullseye Girl"
old
- too close to the mike
- there seems to be some kind of intermittent hiss
- i like the vocal melody and the guitar tone; i can never get my acoustic to sound warm like that
new
- like the electric guitar and the drums
- the vocal doubling during the verse leaves me ambivalent, but works very well for the chorus
- the lead guitar at the beginnig of the 2nd verse is awesome; there should be more of it

Bolio "Elvis in Space"
old
- 404
new
- bouncy, groovy music full of great ideas
- the vocal delivery isn't campy enough
- good use of sampling

The Landfills "Cancer"
old
- very soft cell
- the vox are always buried; they need some variety and should break out at some point
new
- vox are more prominent: excellent
- that low siren-like thing in the chorus is awesome; adds a great groove
- could honestly use a choir for a breakdown/final chorus

noah mclaughlin "Everybody Now"
i choose this one because it seemed like the one with most potential, and certainly one of my most earnest song. heuristics inc.'s production helps a ton. is it weird that in a lower key i can hit higher notes more easily?

Jack Shite "Red Flag"
old
- great bass rumble
- the lyrics lack prosody
- the soloing is pretty cool in a minimalist way
new
- wow! now this is a real re-imagining of the song. love the wall o' guitars
- don't really like the falsetto on the first verse, though
- could be a little faster

Brainpipe "Step Up"
old
- cool minimalist music...
- ... which needs a really melodic voice to fill out the aural space
- could be a really cool bjork song
new
- great new groove to the music
- good vox effects/production
- is that a meter change for the chorus? very cool.
- needs a better ending

Dan-O from Five-O "Are You Having Fun?"
- 404

Freddielove "Honeymoon in Polynesia"
old
- 404
new
- very cool atmospheric; reminds of New World Order/Republica
- i like the understated vox, but they need to break out eventually
- the high-hat on the right seems a little too strong; it should move around instead of sitting in my right ear the whole time
- cool breakdown/bridge; great outro.

sonofsupercar
old
- wow: the local thunderstorm is in time with your song
- takes it time, but eventually builds a nice mood; still could be tightened/given more urgency; the energy in the outro needs to come earlier and be more focused
- the vox effect/production is really cool
- great lyrics
new
- still takes it time
- drums are improved, tho that tom is still just a _little_ too prominent

fluffy porcupine
old
- huh. i think this is the same key as the sos song
- seems more like a demo than a finished song; needs more than the piano and vox
- vocal melody is uncertain
new
- cool guitar tone
- poor vocal intonation
- still a very bare-bones tune that wants more

rabid garfunkel "Lucky Man"
old
- concertina + crash cymbal + electric guitar = HAHA! (don't know why; just the incongruity, i guess.)
- truly disturbing lyrics
- off-beat music for an off-beat point of view
- the vox seem a little bare
new
- new music: creepier (but i did really like the concertina)
- the vox aren't bare anymore; good stuff
- why could i imagine marilyn manson doing this song? it's very "smells like children".
- maybe the last part of the third verse should kick out more

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:21 am

Didn't get my email?

I had posted this:
web.aanet.com.au/caravanray/Thanks_For_Coming_CaravanRay.mp3

a cover of my first songfight entry

The original was really crap - this is probably only slightly less so.

Doesn't matter how much you polish a turd - it remains a turd.

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:58 am

HeuristicsInc wrote:the brainpipe entry was originally a solo hinc song.
http://www.songfight.org/artistpage.php ... rtkey=date
craig offered to help me out with the remake.
-bill

that link was the suck. sorry, i was tired.
http://www.songfight.org/music/stepup/h ... stepup.mp3
hey, i didn't realize you entered the new "everybody now," noah - awesome!
-bill

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:04 am

nyjm wrote: Brainpipe "Step Up"
- is that a meter change for the chorus? very cool.
- needs a better ending

don't think it is. the tempo changes and the piano parts...

what would you do to improve the ending?
-bill

jack · Post by **jack** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:59 am

nyjm wrote: Jack Shite "Red Flag"
..............don't really like the falsetto on the first verse, though

yeah, i hear you. i was trying to sing like a girl.

Post by jb » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:09 am

ok, added all the updated stuff.

jb

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:33 am

jack wrote:yeah, i hear you. i was trying to sing like a girl.

The trick is to do it without being stigmatized by the rest of the world.

Also, you have to do it without being objectified as if you were a girl.

(Sorry, I recently got "Factory Showroom" by TMBG, and am digging it.)

Dan-O from Five-O · Post by **Dan-O from Five-O** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:15 pm

I just saw these were up, not sure what happened to my links. Here's my entries:

Are You Having Fun? - Original

Are You Having Fun? - Not much improved

nyjm · Post by **nyjm** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:24 pm

HeuristicsInc wrote:what would you do to improve the ending?

well, it just kind of... stops. not even a cool little cymbal crash or a vocal echo-effect. hmm, ideas:

- cut the music for the last measure or half-measure
- give a nice little cymbal crash; the auditory equivalent of a period
- cut the drums, slow the tempo and ... come ... to ... the end.
- the chorus is kind of hum-able; repeat it

nyjm · Post by **nyjm** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:28 pm

Dan-O from Five-O wrote:I just saw these were up, not sure what happened to my links. Here's my entries:

hrm. your links lead here:

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/4293edf4_e6 ... CBcQrJjSBp

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/4293edf4_e6 ... CB8FEW50Of

nyjm · Post by **nyjm** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:30 pm

jack wrote:yeah, i hear you. i was trying to sing like a girl.

yeah, i figured that. it's an interesting idea, but it doesn't quite come off. why not just ask a girl to sing the part? then you can have interesting harmony opportunities in the third verse.

Rabid Garfunkel · Post by **Rabid Garfunkel** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:12 pm

nyjm wrote:- why could i imagine marilyn manson doing this song? it's very "smells like children".

Ha! Nice one. Owes a little more to his cover of "I put a spell on you" (strippers dance to the weirdest things, heh), but yeah, I can dig that. Right on. Thanks for the review.

Reviews of my own to come, sooner or later.

Post by jb » Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:04 pm

nyjm wrote:
Dan-O from Five-O wrote:I just saw these were up, not sure what happened to my links. Here's my entries:
hrm. your links lead here:

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/4293edf4_e6 ... CBcQrJjSBp

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/4293edf4_e6 ... CB8FEW50Of

if somebody gets ahold of Dan-O's songs, email them to covermaster@songfight.<b>NET</b> and I'll host them.

JB

feldspar · Post by **feldspar** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:00 pm

Not sure if I forgot to email this or if JB just made a mistake, but I had redone my entry during the extension and JB linked to the wrong one. No big deal, except that my new one is very different. The fight page now links to that, so check it out if you so wish.

Post by jb » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:45 pm

feldspar wrote:Not sure if I forgot to email this or if JB just made a mistake, but I had redone my entry during the extension and JB linked to the wrong one. No big deal, except that my new one is very different. The fight page now links to that, so check it out if you so wish.

So the page is correct now, right? When did I link to the wrong one? Just want to make sure it's correct on the coverfight page.

feldspar · Post by **feldspar** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:34 am

Yes, it is correct now.

blue · Post by **blue** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:21 am

i can't get to the coverfight.

stupid firefox is complaining about a bad certificate. anyone else getting this?

Post by jb » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:22 am

blue wrote:i can't get to the coverfight. stupid firefox is complaining about a bad certificate. anyone else getting this?

I am not. It's not https. What URL are you going to?

blue · Post by **blue** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:40 am

i was still trying to go to http://coverfight.songfight.net, which is the wrong url.

Dan-O from Five-O · Post by **Dan-O from Five-O** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:46 pm

Songs reviewed in order of listing, with the exception that I am listening to the original version first to see what improvements were made to the song. I am going to focus on that aspect more than anything, but will probably add my own OPINIONS of the song overall as well.

Johnny Cashpoint: I hate to say this, but I like the original drum track better than the one you’re using on the improved version. All in all the song is improved without question (the cricket in the left ear is annoying) better vocals, better guitar sounds (I love the new pentatonic riff you added) and the overall quality and musicianship is vastly superior over the original. But this version screams out for it’s original drum track. Overall the song is very solid except for some of the lyrics that I don’t really like, I think it’s the British impression of the old Wild West stuff that gets to me. I’m sure you’re using a lot of metaphors, and I’m just missing what or whom it is you’re trying to describe with them. I’m also sure when you explain it to me I’ll go “OH…Yeah…I get it now”. But is that kind of vagary that you want to subject your listening audience too? If so, be prepared to have a lot of liner notes explaining yourself or a legion of dumb folks like me asking you what you meant by your songs.

King Arthur: What I immediately notice as a big improvement is how much cleaner and concise the rhythm guitar part is. On the original it sounded kind of muddy, maybe a little too buried in the mix, and not distinguished. Here it’s more pronounced and fitting with the rhythm of the drumbeat. It’s a shame you didn’t have time or access to real drums. That would have made a huge improvement as well, but as it is, it’s still much improved. The whole mix, along with improvements in tracks like the bass part, the guitar lead, the aforementioned rhythm guitar is much improved. I like the song overall, no metaphors, no hidden meaning behind the lyrics, it’s easy to feel the pain of your breakup, and it shines not only in your vocals but the passion of the lead guitar parts. I remember this fight, I still think that the best song in the fight was “The Cow Exchange” (despite Josh’s suspect 2.5 votes to the closest competitor) but I’m liking this song a lot. I wish I would have remembered it more the first time. I’m glad you’re improved version has brought it to my attention.

The Hell Yeahs: Jesus H. Christ! What a fucking difference! OMG, this is an indescribable difference in takes. No wonder you’re called the Hell Yeah’s The original track was pretty good but lacking exactly the type of energy that this re-done version has. I hate to ask a question in the middle of a review, but aren’t you the same Heather that’s like in her last trimester of pregnancy? If so, I can’t imagine what a rocker this baby is going to turn out to be. If not, I didn’t mean to imply that you sound pregnant, you don’t. (There’s really no graceful way to segue from that except to say)….Wow you guys, that’s all I keep thinking, is Wow you guys (and Gal of course). Is this the same band? Especially the guitar player, or his part, is so much improved. The more I listen to this, the more I’m beginning to dislike you guys. It all seems so unfair, extreme talent, extreme song, extreme jealousy. Bastards / Bitch’s, I think I hate you. My 17 year old daughter thinks you folk’s sound like “The Donna’s” or “Bikini Kill” if that means anything. She also added a “yeah, I kinda like it” followed by “can I go now” if that means anything else. I’m thinking it means you’re very close to hitting your target audience and that she doesn’t like helping me with my homework anymore than I like helping her with hers.

Feldspar: Although an improved version of this song, I really think you almost would have had to try not to improve this song for that statement to be untrue. You definitely stayed with the premise of the fight by adding instruments to improve it, although there’s some kind of cheesiness about that piano part that’s rubbing me the wrong way. It almost sounds like a keyboard in one of those one finger autochord modes or something, maybe it’s just a looping thing or something. The other music box sound is kind of ugh too. Unfortunately you kept the same direct to input sound of the guitar instead of putting a mic in front of it. Shame because it sounds like the playing is improved. On the whole it’s not a bad song, I like the vocals enough to listen more than once. The lyrics I think are the weak point in this song. They’re not horrible by any stretch, they just don’t explain why you’re referring to her as a “Bullseye Girl” to me.

Bolio: Try as I might, I couldn’t find any record of (and the link didn’t work to) your original version of this song. So this kind of messes up my original premise of the reviews, so I’ll just have to adapt on the fly and review the song as a whole. The sloppy composition of samples at the beginning almost sounds like a last minute thought that would have been better served having had a second thought to be left out. He’s admittedly an easy target and therefore very lampoonable, but aren’t there enough songs out there beating the crap out of the guy who arguably started your interest in music in the first place? Kicking someone while they’re down is tempting and all, it seems to be the American way anymore, but when they’re dead you should at least consider halting the assault. But you took the title you were given and did a pretty good job with it. You seemed to use a lot of cliches in the process which were almost overridden by the adequate musicianship….almost. The organ sound is very cool, some of the other tones I’m not too wild about. The structure of the song is solid, the harmonized guitar solo is pretty cool, the odd middle part is kind of unnecessary but it does segue better than I do.

The Landfills: Overall a much better mix, especially the vocals which couldn’t be heard on the original version. The keyboard sounds you have now are much better as well. This sounds to me like you’re dealing with a lot better equipment overall. Unfortunately you’re also dealing with a style that’s 20 or more years too late. I’m not now, nor have I ever been, a fan of this style of music so I’m hopelessly unqualified to give an honest review. I can’t really speak to the lyrics, I probably didn’t give them a fair enough listen. To me though, the music itself is what dictates how hard I will listen to the lyrics. They call it accompaniment for reason I guess. What I can tell you, at the risk of repeating myself, is that you completed the assignment as directed. You went back to a song that was a couple of years old, re-recorded it, and made it sound a lot better. Beyond that, I can’t really help you.

Noah McLaughlin: This is the first song I’ve listened to that hasn’t shown dramatic improvement. I’m sorry, but the background noises and percussion just aren’t adding up to a lot for me. Is it improved? Sure it is, just not as much as the timeline would have allowed. Before I piss you off too much, wait until I review my own song, I didn’t do much to improve mine either. Here’s the thing about both songs, they’re both basically guy and guitar songs. It’s a weak entry to begin with, but just the kind of song that could distinguish itself if more instruments were added. I’m relatively sure what you’re dealing with is not having access to real drums and probably other musicians who could fit it into their schedule to help you out. Believe me, I’m not being critical of those issues, I’m sure everyone here deals with that kind of thing along the way. I have to anyway. The point is without that assistance, it can be a real challenge to improve a song like this unless you’re really talented or very used to working alone. I’m thinking by what I’m hearing that you’re neither. As harsh as that sounds now, 10 years from now when you’re really, really good, you’ll think back and laugh in appreciation, or start a website dedicated to denigrating me.

Jack Shite: I couldn’t find the original version in the archive, and the link didn’t work, so I’ll review the song as a whole. Man I like you from the boards, I love your avatars (The Finger) and I think you’re one of the wittiest guys around. This however is the first time I’ve had to review one of your songs. Being that you’re one of the more established guys here, I’m a little worried about being too critical. On the other hand, being critical is how I write my reviews, so bear that in mind.. (Enough of a prelude for you?) First and foremost not really my style, but not the kid of thing that makes me go ugh…. goodbye either. It’s the repetitiveness actually, I just don’t care for the lack of originality or thought required to listen to it. Listening to the lyrics, I’m recalling the time my brother (who spent 20 years in the military) once joined in a conversation on New Years Eve with my parents giving me the third degree. His two cents were that drinking and smoking going on at a party would be my “Red Flag” to leave. I didn’t listen to him then, and maybe that’s why I’m finding it difficult to listen now. Sorry Jack, it just doesn’t reach me.

Brainpipe: A noticeably improved drumbeat and sound. Actually, the sound as a whole is improved with one exception, the vocals. The vocals themselves are a better take, but they just need to come up in the mix. You did a good job doubling them, not an easy task at all. I like the improvement of the piano sound the most, it makes it a lot easier to hear the key changes. I’m still not sold on the tempo changes on either version of this. They’re definitely different, just to my ear, not very smooth. The changes in the tempo seem so dramatic to my ear that they’re distracting. Other than that, I think what we have here is a fine example of what a woman’s criticism can drive a man to. Ladies, take note. Sometimes your critical advice, no matter how well intended it might be, can drive a guy to write a dark, brooding, and somewhat unflattering song based on that behavior.

Dan-O (Me): Neither link is working (for me at least) at this time, so let me tell you what you’re not really missing. I definitely left a lot of room for improvement on my “improved” version of this song. My biggest issue with the SongFight format is that unless you’re in an established band that has members willing to come over and record a song on a moments notice, or have all the needed instruments yourself, something is going to be less than what you really want. You’re almost always going to end up having to do all the parts yourself, and some of those will end up being electronic versions of real instruments. Case in point, my first version. Believe me, I’m not griping about the format, but to discount the effect one week can have on overall production would be foolish. My biggest issue with almost every song I’ve heard here is either a bad guitar sound or fake drums. My original song had fake drums, something I could easily rectify. So here’s my chance to fix those things right? And what do I do? Have a drummer play over the established parts or start again and fix the other things that bothered me? I elected to start over. Unfortunately, I elected to start over at the drummer’s house. What I mean by that is that I was out of my environment, and he controlled the destiny of this song. I’m a control freak by nature, especially when it comes to music, so this isn’t an easy thing to give up. So we used his new equipment, that he’s obviously not very experienced at using himself (because it’s new and all) and we made a moderately improved version of my ode to 60’s semi-ballads. I ended up with a much improved drum track including punches that weren’t there before, and better lead and backing vocal tracks, but beyond that, not the improvement I was looking for. And that’s what you didn’t miss.

Freddielove: I couldn’t find the original version in the archive, and the link didn’t work, so I’ll review the song as a whole. My first thought about this song is how much the beginning resembles the artwork. I was so entranced by the sounds I kept waiting for that cute couple to come out and share some champagne with me. Don’t take that as much as of a complement as it might sound, it just means the beginning isn’t too much different than a jingle. However, as this song proceeds it has a very nice feel about it. I really like the relaxing backing vocals. They’re like, “Hey you’re on you’re honeymoon. Relax and have fun”. The whole song is not my thing, but I cannot deny that it’s well produced, (nice panning going on for instance) well sung and it has good chord changes. This is one of those songs that I listen to here at SongFight and it makes me sit back and wonder, “How did they do all that?” Nice work Freddie. It may not be my thing but the production is so stellar I really couldn’t care less. That may be my biggest gripe, this so well produced that I know there’s no other way to accomplish it without computer assistance. Work on that end and I think you’ve got something going on.

Sonofsupercar: Man, I couldn’t even find the song listed in the archive, and the link didn’t work, so I’ll review the song as a whole. My method of reviewing CoverFight is officially blown to shit by the way. Good musicianship, and good vocals with nice use of effects, but questionable chord progressions, and chords overall. Some of which I questioned calling chords at all, but without a guitar in hand and stronger theory knowledge, who am I to argue that point. The lyrics are strong, the production is solid even if some of the tones aren’t what I would want from them..You’re definitely off blazing your own trail sound-wise. I have to be honest though, this sounds more like filler than it does the song that defines who Sonofsupercar is. It’s a solid piece of work that I wish I had the benefit of listening to the original version of. I just ended a sentence in a preposition didn’t I? Oops. Oh well, I know you guys are used to breaking the accepted confines of structure, so I’m guessing you won’t mind a little thing like that. Nice work folks, as always.

Fluffy Porcupine: I think you technically broke the “rules” by deleting the piano part, and in the process turned this from a guy / piano song, into a guy / guitar song. So you picked up a new instrument, improved your vocals slightly and submitted the song again. Nice work. Got any less time on your hands? I’m just messing with you man. The improvements in overall sound quality are there, but I have to say this, there’s no real improvements in the structure or instrumentation of the song. There is a solid song here, and it needs to finished properly. Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to go back one more time and add to what is already there. By adding I mean, some other instruments. Whether those instruments be percussive, wind, electronic, I care not. I just think the whole song needs more of something, I’ll let you decide what that is and get back with you when you share it with me.

Rabid Garfunkel: Dude, what the fuck happened to the accordion? The quality of the song is improved, but instrumentally you crucified this. Dammit! As strong as I feel about “The Hell Yeah’s” improvement in their song, I’m close to saying I feel as negatively about this effort. Everything is there except the accordion, which means you went outside the rules. I can understand the possibilities of how it happened, I can except the reasons why you didn’t get the track, but I won’t accept it’s omission lightly. To me that’s what made the original version. All of the wonderful things you did to improve this song have gone to waste without the accordion. I’m sorry, to me that made the original version. Now add that and….it's nicely improved. Oh and work on your bass guitar sound, even if it is acoustic, it doesn’t have to sound that way if you try a mic or an amp instead of running direct.

Caravan Ray: You clearly changed, and improved this song. So here’s what you did right. The tempo change from the slow, drooling song you had before to the more fast paced lively song you have now is a big improvement. You added better sounding “drums”. You added better sounding guitars. You did a better mix….with the exception of your vocals. And here’s what you did wrong. Sorry, but ease up on the delay….please. It works for the backing vocals but not the lead, at least not as much as what you have going. It’s so easy to get mystified by that effect, to the point that you don’t really hear it anymore. I’ll tell you what I do hear Ray, you have a very pleasant voice that could shine through without the effects, so have more confidence in that. Your talent and equipment are undeniably good, mixing should be the next thing you focus on. Nice improvement, but I know you have a better effort in you.

Bolio: Hmm… interesting. See the first review I gave you.

Overall, the memorable improvements were made by the Hell Yeah’s, and J$. Everyone in this fight seemed to have solid entries, except for myself, it’s kind of a shame I couldn’t have made more A/B comparisons to some of the songs, but it’s all good. This was fun, I would like to do the same type of CoverFight again sometime.