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WeaselSlayer · Post by **WeaselSlayer** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:33 pm

I don't think any of those have ever won, Jack.

jack · Post by **jack** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:48 pm

go listen to the iron clef. that bastard didn't deserve to win.

Post by **Spud** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:53 pm

Hey, lighten up Jack. I didn't intend to take anything away from Jim's win. In fact, the first point in my post was to point out that he took it fair and square. Sorry if anyone was confused by the humor.

On the other hand, when someone wins so decisively, it would seem that their song demands another listen, and I simply posted my true feelings in that context. I gave not only my critique but my criteria as well. I am surprised that you have a problem with someone expressing their opinion around here.

ruin8r · Post by **ruin8r** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:56 pm

I'm just curious. Was a link posted on a Microsoft internal mailing list or something? Usually this sort of margin is reserved for newcomers who get their friends to vote.

If it's any consolation, aside from our entry, I liked the following in approximately this order: PUCE, dankins, Merisan, drwater, excuse the production, Brainpipe, en passant, Cow Exchange, JB, Corn on the Cob, BeWells, Tiny Paws, RxW, posyden, pigpen, Ross Durand, Hostess Mostess, Jim Tyrrell, luke henley, Wreckdom, JoS, bax.

The remarkable thing for me is that I liked most of the entries and actually wanted to listen again. Not usually the case for me in SF.

jack · Post by **jack** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:03 pm

my comments were not directed towards you spud.

you said his tune was a failure to you. that's fine. i wanted to show it was a success for me. what's the problem there? it's all about the fact that it's obvious there's no consensus on whether his song is great or sucks, on whether it qualifies or not, on whether it's a song or not, so it seems ridiculous to continue to argue the point, and it just seemed to me the attacks and criticisms were getting more personally directed towards jim and less towards his song, or tune, or whatever the hell you want to call it. his WIN.

this is the last i have to say on this. i like jim. i like you too spud. this argument is retarded.

Post by **Spud** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:16 pm

I agree 100%, Jack. There need be no personal attacks. Jim won fair and square, and I congratulate him. Not only for the win, but for a clever idea, and for his ongoing contributions to songfight.

In fact, I am surprised that anyone is surprised by this win. He got overwhelmingly excellent reviews on the boards, and it was those reviews as much as the win that I was responding to. I mean. A guy can only take so much praise. I felt a little constructive criticism might be welcome.

Ross · Post by **Ross** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:34 pm

I'm surprised there was any argument as well. I've certainly made more people listen to the first minute of this than any other entry I can remember since I 've joined the site (except maybe a few of my own). Clever and well done!

Ross · Post by **Ross** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:46 pm

Jim of Seattle wrote:
Ross Durand Very glad you didn't turn it into a joke, as I was half expecting, given the forum on which it was presented! Find an animal other than giraffe to fit better lyrically. (It's gir-AFFE, and you sing GIR-affe).

Totally with you. I struggled with this for some time. In the end I kept it cause giraffes are just so cool ,cooler than any animals I could find to fit the blank syllabically.

Also, the "seek while you hide" line is awkward, especially for preschoolers.

I'm not sure if I totally agree, although I see your point and this phrase went through a few turnings. My daughter just loves playing hide and seek a lot lately, so I wanted to keep the sentiment.

Your bridge is musically necessary as I hear, but you will lose the kids there.

I thought maybe so, too, but I find my daughter singing that just as well as most other parts of the song.

Thanks for the detailed comments.

Geoff WreckdoM · Post by **Geoff WreckdoM** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:28 pm

Hey guys, just so you know, that was good natured ribbing, I would never suggest JoS as being dishonest on this site. If anything, I would consider him the single most unlikely person in this community to ever be dishonest, hence the ribbing.

rone rivendale · Post by **rone rivendale** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:42 pm

There were some many songs this time around that deserved the victory, but I too voted for JoS. I have to admit though, if I had waited longer than the 2nd day to vote I probably would have went with PUCE. But JoS's song was great and I always enjoy piano music.

This was the first songfight I had the chance to see from beginning to end. It sets a high bar, Ill be dissapointed if this next batch of songs aren't up to that standard!

Post by **Spud** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:49 pm

In that case , you might want to stay off the internet for the next week or so...

rone rivendale · Post by **rone rivendale** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:14 pm

lol, that's a bad sign.

Jim of Seattle · Post by **Jim of Seattle** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:18 pm

Geez, you guys.... Go trick or treating and come back and look what has happened....

Spud, you were right in that I appreciated the honest comments. Since I know you personally I can assume they were meant as helpful and not as sour grapes, so no big deal. The piece was originally intended as a theme and variations on that Windows sound, but I very quickly discovered it didn't hold enough weight to warrant that. When I started it I had no idea what I was going to do with it. The "development" of the main theme, minutes 1 to 2 are a product of my earlier workings with the theme, and now that the whole thing's shaped out I want to go back and fix that because it's a little slow.

I honestly just thought it would be funny to have a piano piece that riffed off such a familiar sound, but what I discovered to my surprise and keen fascination was the degree of association that people seem to have with that sound. To me it's nothing more than simply "familiar", while with others it represents crashing technology, "the man", the impersonal nature of computers, etc., etc., and everyone has taken my piece to be a comment on any of those associations. I totally LOVE that. But I don't have those associations myself. It seems to be a case of my having inadvertently struck a chord with listeners. It's frankly very exciting to me not only the good comments (because frankly most songs I submit get kind responses but not votes), but the degree of thought and reflection behind those comments. I struck a nerve, it seems, and had no idea I was going to. How cool is that.

So Spud, you're right, that a little honest criticism isn't going to hurt in comparison with all the positive feedback I've received. So long as it's honest, which I think, it is.

And WreckdoM, you are correct, that I strive for honesty on Songfight more than anything else. It's a value I stress heavily with my daughter. There were some extra Seattle votes, I suspect, because the people I always send notices to about my songs happened to dig it enough to vote for it. But it's the same group of folks I always send notice of my songs out to, and I usually lose.

What a ride...

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:07 am

Spud wrote:the Windows system sounds ... Every time they appeared, you recognized them for what they were. They never become one with the composition, surrendering their origins to the new role.

Not sure I agree... I felt like the first time each sound came in, it was pretty obvious. Especially the error "bonk" sound. Every time I listened it made me look at the computer with a "what did I do now?" expectation. But as each sound continued I thought it melded into the composition well. Especially the beginning welcome sound - after a while it was working into the piano notes and I felt like it was right at home in there. So... yeah, at first, I agree with Spud, but I felt like they did meld in after a few iterations.
Congrats Jim! I thought about voting for you, but I didn't

-bill

Jim of Seattle · Post by **Jim of Seattle** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:50 am

Spud, your reaction has really gotten me thinking. I did sort of have a program in mind, a story. The user boots up their PC, works with it, gets some errors, reboots, then ultimately triumphs and shuts down at the end of the day. The thought about the sounds being incorporated into the piece as a whole is an interesting one, but because the sounds are pseudo-orchestral and I'm doing piano, I never had any notions that they would seamlessly integrate. Plus, I knew that the familiarity people have with the sound would always pull them out of the piece as pure music. However, I am planning to set this for a full orchestra next, and I'll have more freedom to explore that idea, so I'm glad you brought it up, becuase it's a dimension that needs to be considered at that time.

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:05 am

an actual orchestra, or a simulated one?
-bill

Jim of Seattle · Post by **Jim of Seattle** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:32 am

An actual orchestra. Pretty psyched, though nervous, since I've never done that before. I bought some books and some scores, but I'm a total noob at it.

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:17 pm

that is exciting! let us hear something when you've got it worked out.
-bill

ruin8r · Post by **ruin8r** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:39 pm

http://www.coolcatdaddy.com/essays/mssound.html

Looks like Brian Eno deserves some credit here too.

Jim of Seattle · Post by **Jim of Seattle** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:51 pm

Yeah, I learned years ago that Eno had written the MS Sound. I would like to have him hear my piece somehow. But I think he's achieved Ivory Tower status and is probably relatively unreachable by us mere mortals.

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:12 pm

i can submit that, no, he probably doesn't want to hear from you:
http://music.hyperreal.org/artists/brian_eno/email.html
-bill

Jim of Seattle · Post by **Jim of Seattle** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:29 pm

Exactly. More likely that I'd become extremely famous and then he'd come talk to me instead. Which is of course exceedingly unlikely as well.

Welcome to the reviews page.

Can anyone shed any light on the source of the JoS votes?

The win

Origin of the microsoft start sound