Spud wrote:Everything else aside, the fracturing of the community, the lack of consultation, etc., etc., etc., etc.,
I'd like to point out that when I navigate to http://www.songfight.org that under the Song FIght! logo it reads "presented by spud and jb". Having spoken to jb before, I chose to mention my idea about sidefight.com to him before I did anything else because I didn't want to strir up anything. Here is his reply via PM:
jb wrote:Hey that's cool. Actually, I suggest just putting that out there on the board and letting people jump on board. I'm pretty hands-off about everything other than this message board and songfight.org (not enough time in the day), but people are encouraged to have at their own projects and go nuts. So, go nuts!
So I'd just like to make it known that there was "consultation", apparently it just wasn't w/ the right person.
Spud wrote:I must observer that if one goes to sidefight.com, and clicks down into nurein, there seems to be no fucking way to even get to the songs. Can we discuss basic functionality? I'm just sayin. God damned amateurs.
I've been working on developing a db-driven application for this site, but since I don't have the advantage of pre-existing resources and I'm basically developing a MySQL driven site for the first time ever, there's a bit of a learning curve.
I really love this site and appreciate all the work that's gone into developing this community. I never thought I'd get so much flak for trying to make my own small contribution to it.
Sheesh...
"[...] so plodding it actually hurts a little bit" - Smalltown Mike
kill_me_sarah wrote:I really love this site and appreciate all the work that's gone into developing this community. I never thought I'd get so much flak for trying to make my own small contribution to it. Sheesh...
Hey man, you're not catching flak, at least not a lot. Your idea was the impetus for a change here, and a really cool change, I think. It may not have been in the way you originally foresaw but it is just as (if not more) useful this way. It was a great idea, and thanks to Spud for implementing it nicely under the Song Fight! umbrella.
Who would have thought I would be the asshole and JB the nice guy? Well, some of you probably.
Here's the deal. I have a lot of songfight site-upgrade projects going on in the background at any given time. Some of these people know about, some of them they don't. In this case, this was an idea that I had been noodling for some time, and had some of the pages in place, but hadn't gone out and collected all the data yet, so had not launched the pages when along came sidefight.com out of the blue (at least as far as I am concerned).
This has happened before.
When blue stopped doing songfight radio, I started an exploration of what it would take to put it back on the air, but didn't take any action right away. Eventually, Jack started a thread where people could post playlists under the auspices of "songfight radio". With the name taken, I lost interest in the pursuit. The thread had a good run for 21 days. Since then there have been sporadic posts. Not exactly radio. No offense to Jack, who remains a dear friend, and I appreciate his efforts, but it fizzled, and my interest in the project was the victim (temporarily).
I had also been working on putting some data together for sonfight-related shows, bringing them all under one banner when someone put such a page together. Again, I put my effort aside. This page is no longer with us.
When this sidefight site came up, I told myself that I wasn't going to let it happen for a third time. I took it as a reflection of my own slowness in adding features to the site, and kicked myself for not completing the project earlier.
I see by your profile that you have been with us for two months now. I surely cannot expect you to know what other projects or plans are in place, either already coded or in my head - hell, JB doesn't know - nor to know that I personally pay for and provide hosting for songs for pretty much any songfighter who asks at songhole.org.
I read your initial post in this thread with interest, and watched as some voiced enthusiasm and others pointed out some of the same concerns that I have. The site itself provided no clues, as it contained a sentence of text and a link to another site, the most current side fight.
When a mirror of the nur ein site, minus the songs, was posted at sidefight.com last week, I am afraid I lost my cool. I concluded that this site was another one-hit wonder, lacking in substance, and posted the inexcusable rant a few posts back. I am sorry.
Clearly, there is room for contribution. More space for songs is always appreciated. Not everyone knows about songhole, and I couldn't provide the space if everyone requested it. Additionally, you will note that many of the sidefight pages include links to the fight's own web page, so I am not opposed to independent efforts.
I guess where I draw the line is when someone tried to take on something that seems like it would be a natural part of the site itself, or that has an "umbrella" nature to it. Obviously, even more so when I am already working on it. You may not know that the message board itself was once external to the site, run by someone else since 2000. In September of 2004, we brought it into the fold by running it ourselves. Clearly, we have moved toward unification over the years, rather than away from it.
Anyway, what am I trying to say? Sorry you got the brunt of my frustrations with my lack of time to complete all the cool additions I have in mind. I DO appreciate your effort and your ideas. This thread WAS the shove needed to get me off my butt to finish the damned thing by going out and digging up all the data. Perhaps you can PM me with some of your ideas, since I really have not idea what you had in mind. I do not know if it is compatible with, sympathetic to, or separate from what I have already done based on what I have seen so far.
To avoid similar problems in the (near) future, let me publicly say that I am working on the following site enhancements:
Improved Cover Art Archive, incorporating all the features of the current Music Archive.
Conversion of the songfight fight database to a real database application, with different sorts and views. I have recently done a MySQL application at work, and am ready to tackle this.
A "SongFight Presents" page, similar to the SideFights page, indexing all of the various shows that have been put on around the country, including links to their own pages, photos, and any audio that might be available.
Restoration of SongFight! Radio to a true real-time streaming format. This would include the entire archive, and not be filtered in any way. Anyone who wants to help out with this, let me know.
Oh, and of course, the sidefights page is just a first draft. I hope to add streams to the pages, cover images for the fights that don't already have them, alternative indexing, etc., but these will wait to see if there is some way we can combine our efforts.
SPUD
Last edited by Spud on Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
jimtyrrell wrote:Hooray for Spud! I'll be raising a glass to you and your efforts as soon as I get out of work.
Maybe sooner.
well, it looks to me as if you're raising one right now. heh.
anyway, it's v cool to see all the sidefights there together. we've done a lot of "charity" work here! hxaro, gom, etc...
awesome.
-bill
You know what I think, as a complete and utter nOOb, and by that token not experienced (or talented enough!) to really make a difference, I keep most of my thoughts to myself. Yes I too have made mistakes, basically by not knowing how things worked, and I too have been severely slagged off in various forums within songfight. But I thought to myself OK I've made mistakes, I've upset a few people, the best thing to do would be to sit tight, play the game and remember the golden rule...
Don't take it tOO seriously.
Spud does a great job, JB does a great job and Kill Me Sarah tried to do a great job with obviously the best of intentions, end of story, I love this songfight contraption, and look forward every day to logging on and seeing whats happened, checking to see if I've got any reviews, checking to see if any of them are nice and just generally enjoying the whole experience, and long may that continue, this is the best goddam blOOdy site ever!!
@eclectic spOOns wrote:You know what else I think....
...I think, BUSH STINKS!
Interruption over.
Tell her to wash it.
BTW, nice work Spud. Very much appreciated. I wish I could help, but I don't have the skills. Maybe project manager, but the tech stuff is over my head.
Mmm. SF Radio. I have no technical skillz, but I'll gladly help you out with that. (It'd be cool if you had streaming songs from the archive 24/7, and then at different times, say 8pm you had the Glenn Case show, and then at 9pm you had the Niveous show, and things like that...) But anyway. Your baby, not mine If you do need any help, I'm here
@eclectic spOOns wrote:You know what else I think....
...I think, BUSH STINKS!
Interruption over.
Tell her to wash it.
Real mature, Dan-O.
"It is really true what philosophy tells us, that life must be understood backwards. But with this, one forgets the second proposition, that it must be lived forwards." Søren Kierkegaard
and just generally enjoying the whole experience, and long may that continue, this is the best goddam blOOdy site ever!!
If you do need any help, I'm here 
