OK, we know who won (or: Does God exist?)

[Leaf]

Uhh... hello? The Washington Redskins lost. C'mon people, perspective. THEY LOST. relax... we all know that means Kerry wins.


Sheesh.

[HeuristicsInc]

....except that he just conceded, evidently.
-bill

[Leaf]

Damn predictions.


Really? He conceded?


fuck.


well, Kerry did keep saying "four more years of the same" and "more of the same"...which isn't so bad for Canadians... not so great for the Iraquis though....

[fodroy]

i'm not making this up. but kerry won the election in my dream last night. the election process wasn't in my dream, but i saw a newspaper declaring him the winner. are my dreams more than just random weird crap happening? we shall see...

apparently i'm no prophet.

[Leaf]

....well, enjoy your civil war guys.


P.S. there's lots of room up here for free-thinking individuals.....


We have been discussing this election here at work, and it's amazing how much of this election is determined by advertising. Here's my idea of the day: They should give each of you one booklet of policies and ideas from the GOP, and another from the democrats. Then you all check off which policies you like, and those you don't. The winner is declared based on who has the most approved polices, BUT the catch is that ALL policies that win have to be implemented.

No advertising allowed, no signs, nothing but the two booklets. THAT would be a democracy.

[fodroy]

i do like that idea. though i guess america really isn't a democracy but that doesn't mean i don't wish it was.

and it really pisses me off that kerry conceded. i'm pretty sure they weren't even done with the counting. he just pussed out. what kind of leader does that? as much as i loathe having to live under bush for another 4 years, i'm glad kerry showed that he's not a true leader before he got into office. jesus christ, this makes me nauseous.

i'll be in my venting stage for the next few weeks.

[Jim of Seattle]

Public Campaign Financing
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Public Campaign Financing
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Public Campaign Financing

That's what it's all about. Until we have that, we get nothing we want. It should be the single most important issue facing Americans. It's too uphill a battle, I fear.

On a more radical note, I think everyone who wants to vote should first prove they know what they're voting about by passing a non-partisan test answering questions about the candidates and issues. If they pass the test, they get to vote.

[erik]

what kind of leader does that?

He conceded because Bush already has 270 electoral votes, and short of lawsuits to try and move around the popular vote numbers (where there appears to be no real evidence of fraud or mistakes), there's no respectable way for Kerry to be president.

It's not being a pussy, it's a basic understanding of arithmetic.

[Hoblit]

On a more radical note, I think everyone who wants to vote should first prove they know what they're voting about by passing a non-partisan test answering questions about the candidates and issues. If they pass the test, they get to vote.

I like your idealogy here... but it's not fair.

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"everybody wins in a world war" Brother Machine

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[jack]

On a more radical note, I think everyone who wants to vote should first prove they know what they're voting about by passing a non-partisan test answering questions about the candidates and issues. If they pass the test, they get to vote.

and who would pay for such nonsense?
and who writes the questions for such nonsense?
and who decides what the right answers for such nonsense?

as much as i hate the outcome, the fact remains that bush won both the popular and electorate vote. don't blame me.

i feel a 4 year hangover coming on....

[Henrietta]

...not to mention it's the first step toward ELITISM.

I know you have good intentions when you talk about wanting the well informed voter to have more of a say. But the point is that all Americans should be treated as equals. Each vote counts the same regardless of the sincerity or virtue of its intention.

[c.layne]

heheheheh... you liberal people are funny.

[j$]

I think you missed my point. It's not an international problem, it's a global problem. No matter who you are, what language you speak, or what your political persuasion is, we all live on the one planet...Though I agree Blair's toady attitude doesn't help.

No, I got it, I think, and I agreed with it to a large extent but the question here is like it or not (and I don't at all) Bush got 51% of the popular vote (est.) He didn't cheat this time round - which means the majority of americans for whatever reason wanted Bush. Who are we to tell them that they are wrong? Sure we can ask them to consider how it affects countries of which they are not citizens but we can't make them/expect them to. whn I voter next year, I won't be considering how it affects a fundamentalist anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, warmongering citizen of the US (unless that happens to be George Bush) The way to get our message across, if it is the democratically expressed one, is to make them (the 51% est) understand through protest/sanctions.

That said, he's a mad old fundamentalist drink-driving nut, so I say screw democracy, let's invade!

Oh and C Hack, I was giving B the election back then because Kerry needed over 136,000 votes to swing Ohio and the outstanding ballots in question numbered 135,000. So it was a long shot. but that's moot now as I understand Kerry has fallen on his sword.

[j$]

...not to mention it's the first step toward ELITISM.

I know you have good intentions when you talk about wanting the well informed voter to have more of a say. But the point is that all Americans should be treated as equals. Each vote counts the same regardless of the sincerity or virtue of its intention.

Totally agreed. I hate the fact that the majority of the American people have chosen Bush but I accept it and somehow have to respect it. The flaw in democracy (that simply because the majority of people choose something makes it right) but choose the system, deal with the outcome. That other way of thinking leads to d.i.c.t.a.t.o.r.s.h.i.p.

Oh and C Layne, hope you're laughing when d.a.d. george presses the button on ya skinny white ass. (note I deliberately capitalized your name 'cos I know how much you hate it. ;P )

[Leaf]

Perhaps the irony of this will turn out to be four fantastic glorious years of a Bush adminstration that brings world peace, health and safety to all of humankind?


He could go down as the greatest ever, you never know... if the Redskins can be wrong, so might all the Bush critiques?


.. just trying to pump up some optimism here.... keep your chin up...

[Lunkhead]

Kerry might as well concede. His only hope technically would be for all the Ohio provisional ballots to be counted, and enough of them to go to him to swing the state. First of all, he'd have to get >75% of those votes to do that, which probably wouldn't happen. Second of all, if he tried to push for that, either the Secretary of State of Ohio or members of the Ohio legislature would probably just declare that Bush gets the state's electoral votes. The Supreme Court would uphold such a decision, as evidenced in Bush v. Gore of 2000. Apparently individual citizens do not actually have any Constitutionally provided right to vote in the presidential election. It is technically up to the legislature in a state to decide how to dispense with the state's electoral votes, and they could technically decide to just give Bush the electoral votes, regardless of the popular vote count.

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/20372

All that stuff we were taught in school about how our country works was a bunch of baloney, apparently.

[Jim of Seattle]

Of course it's nonsense. But I don't see how it's elitist to demand that someone who has a voice in the future of the country know what they're voting on. I'm not saying only smart people should vote, or even educated people. I'm saying people who vote based on ignorance of the issues aren't doing their country any favors.

This is based on poll results where vast numbers of people voted for B or K because they believed something about them that was diamterically opposed to truth.

If I were to take a test before I voted and I failed that test, I'd be GLAD I wasn't going to vote because I'd then fear I was voting for the person I didn't want to win.

Look, I know it's a far-fetched idea. It's just an idea is all.

[the Jazz]

Thanks, Leaf. We all needed a good laugh today.

[c hack]

Well, on behalf of all the farmers in the US, fuck you you elitist prick. - And other guff

Chill dear boy, I obviously rattled your cage. Apologies.
Perhaps using the word farmer wasn't very politic (hmm). What I meant was a weency percentage of people who happen to live in Ohio (which is a believe a farming state - ergo farmers).

It's not just you -- living in MA, all day I have to deal with leftists who really think they're better than the people in the middle of the country, and I'm sick of it. It's not that you used the word "farmer," it's the implication of rural people being stupid. Apology accepted.

But even still, what you said wasn't true. It was like saying the Red Sox winning the series depended completely on whoever was pitching in the 9th. The fact is, 3 1/2 million more people voted for Bush than Kerry. So he's in office. The country elected him. Not Ohio.

The only problem with that is, Bush has delivered none of those things either. Well, I guess we got a tax cut, but with his rate of spending that can't last forever. So it's very sad really. All of us lost this one.

Well put.

[jack]

i heard somewhere that the turnout for young people (18-25) was somewhere in the neighborhood of 17%. thats pretty sad. that easily could have been the difference. another opportunity lost.

[fodroy]

what kind of leader does that?

He conceded because Bush already has 270 electoral votes, and short of lawsuits to try and move around the popular vote numbers (where there appears to be no real evidence of fraud or mistakes), there's no respectable way for Kerry to be president.

It's not being a pussy, it's a basic understanding of arithmetic.

then forgive me. i was in class when it happened and nobody updated their website to reflect that.

[c hack]

Perhaps the irony of this will turn out to be four fantastic glorious years of a Bush adminstration that brings world peace, health and safety to all of humankind?

Hey, the Red Sox won the series -- I guess anything's possible.

Also, I guess technically, it's not fair to say that the majority of Americans want Bush as president -- more accurately, the majority of Americans think he was the best choice from the crap we were given to choose from.

Or, even more accurately, the majority of Americans believe in certain issues that they vote for, even if a dick will be implementing them.

Which he probably won't anyway, as Henrietta mentioned.