Stereo field fun

[jeffgowins3]

My band is in the middle of making a new record. The inspiration the songs and the production is the 60s/70s. We want to make the recordings sound as close to a live band as possible. We don't want a huge stereo field, like, 25% either way being the most extreme.

Live, we look like this (from crowd perspective):
Vocals: center
Bass: right of center
Guitar: left of center
Keys: between vox and guitar, a little more back
Drums: back center

In the studio, I want the stereo field to accurately mimic this, but does the bass always have to be center? Would it be bad to put it to the right about 15-20%?

This is how things look pan-wise on the recordings so far:
DRUMS
kick - center
hat - 10% right
snare - 7% right
high tom - 3% right
floor tom - 7% left
ride - 10% left
crash - 7% right

GUITAR - 20% left

KEYS - 15% left

BASS - center

VOCALS - center

I'm really afraid I'm overloading the left channel. We haven't come across any huge deals yet, but I'd hate to get used to this set-up and have to change it later on.

So, advice on using the stereo field to mimic a live band.

Thanks in advance.

[Reist]

I'm personally not a huge fan of having things straight in the center in the panning. I also don't think that you are required to mic the set exactly as it was played, and I'm pretty sure that bass does not need to be center all the time. If you feel like you're overloading the left channel, move the ones that are in center slightly right of center and the ones in the left just a bit more to the right. Although I bet you knew how to do that already.

[Leaf]

Have you stood out front and center of your band, maybe with a wireless connection or a really long cord, closed your eyes and judged where the panning was in your mind? Then sat down at the board and tried to move things to those places? I'd do that. Not for you... I mean for me. I pan my drums like that, only I use my drum throne as the reference point. I play with my eyes closed, listen to where things are, and then try to re-create it (sometimes with a bit more spread) at my workstation.


An idea.

[Adam!]

does the bass always have to be center?

No way. Listen to Deerhoof's Runners Four: that album has the bass panned at least 50% to the right throughout the whole album. Or check out PE's Covered In Bugs. For that song I split the bass around 200 hz into high and low channels, and panned the low channel center and the high channel left. That way the part that needs to be reproduced by a subwoofer is in the middle, and the part that your ear uses to locate the instrument can be panned to wherever you want it.

When panning, remember that not everyone is going to be listening on headphones. I'm sure most people (like, 99%) can't tell the difference between a tom panned 3% right and a tom panned center.

[deshead]

I'm really afraid I'm overloading the left channel.

Off-center bass frequencies can cause phase issues when cutting a vinyl record. But if you're sticking to CD or MP3, you can put the bass anywhere you want.

Something else to keep in mind, though, is that center-panned instruments come from both speakers so they're louder. Depending on your style of music, that might be important.

We don't want a huge stereo field, like, 25% either way being the most extreme.

Is there a specific reason you want such a small spread? That signal will effectively be mono for most of your listeners.

[ken]

I was listening to Morrison Hotel last night by the Doors and realized it was probably done on a 3 track machine as drums and keys were on the left, guitar and harmonica on the right and the vocals were in the middle.

What records are you trying to copy from the 60s/70s?

Ken

[blue]

reproduced by a subwoofer is in the middle, and the part that your ear uses to locate the instrument can be panned to wherever you want it.

pretty sure most subs sum both channels?

[obscurity]

I have two problems with attempts to create a live feel via panning:

1) most people forget it's the position of your speakers on the stage that matters, not where you actually stand whilst playing

2) Most audience members aren't stood in the middle of the drum kit.

[Adam!]

reproduced by a subwoofer is in the middle, and the part that your ear uses to locate the instrument can be panned to wherever you want it.

pretty sure most subs sum both channels?

Certainly. But there are a few reasons I want the sub' frequencies in the center:

1. When monitoring without a sub, if you pan the low bass frequencies off-center (unless your mixer does some kinda fancy panning) you'll need to boost them to maintain the same perceived level. If nothing else this will eat up your overhead.

2. If you pan the bass to one side and then do unlinked buss compression (say, on the instrument mix, for instance) the bass frequencies in the left channel aren't likely to match the frequencies in the right channel; when the sub recombines the two channels you're more likely to end up with low-frequency stew.

3. Under normal circumstances your ears can't really locate where bass frequencies are coming from, because their wavelengths are too long for your brain to triangulate properly. The exception is when you're listening with headphones, in which case bass panning is a lot more detectable. I personally find listening to perpetually panned bass frequencies on headphones fatiguing and a little dizzying.

[fodroy]

I'm no expert at production or mixing, but I have my preferences.

Vocals, Drums = center.
Everything else (including backing vox) = to the sides.

With the stuff to the sides, I pretty much have one thing on both sides at all times. I like it to be even. I don't know if it's necessary or if it's a personality tick. I'm the kind of guy who has to touch a doorknob with both hands. But I can't stand when one side is stronger than the other, let alone when there's only one guitar or something going in one ear (I usually listen to music with headphones). To me, that feels like getting water in your ear.

Signed (with love),
Dan
...who doesn't know what he's talking about.

[deshead]

We want to make the recordings sound as close to a live band as possible.

A few more things:
- In my experience, a live sound is MUCH more the product of performance than production. Basically, if you want a recording to sound live, you should record it live.
- Along with mic'ing your instruments individually, consider stereo-mic'ing the room from your ideal listener position. Treat this as an ambience track you can bring up as needed to add character to your sound. This track will have all your instruments naturally in the correct stereo position. In fact, with this technique you can use more extreme pannings on the raw instrument tracks as the ambience track will keep things tight.
- You might benefit from some of the stereo mic techniques used to mic symphonies. Generally, a stereo pair with the L and R signals hard panned.
- In short, a well-practiced band in a tight, well-mic'd room might be what you're really after.