What do you want from a review on SongFight?

Bjam · Post by **Bjam** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:31 pm

Since it's causing a little turmoil. Discuss.

WeaselSlayer · Post by **WeaselSlayer** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:33 pm

I used to be really pissy about reviews, but honestly if someone listens to my song I'm happy. Even if that's all they say about it is, "I listened." Because, you know, that's what you're supposed to do with songs.

fodroy · Post by **fodroy** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:36 pm

ideas to improve/comments on overall quality. it's just nice to see how they respond.

though the technical and production comments annoy me. if you're looking for good production from my songs then you're missing the point.

john m · Post by **john m** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:34 pm

If they like my song, I don't really care what they say. If they dislike it (for reasons other than genre bias), I want detailed explanations.

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:02 pm

i like what people got to give. everyone has a different spin and different input. I'll take it. I most appreciate visceral responses, since that's where i'm heading and what i focus on myself. but i always like hearing suggestions about how to make something sound better, etc.

a bebop a rebop · Post by **a bebop a rebop** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:06 pm

more governmental control

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:38 pm

Anything is good. I like the different styles of review... I have changed my mind about the "neccessity" of reviews... if you got time or something to say, great. But the idea that it's required... I'm over that.

That being said, how can ANY response to your song not be helpful? Even if they say "I think it's shit" you are still left, as the songwriter, to decide whether or not the person offering the opinon has any merit... and if you feel they do, maybe it's better to consider their opinion rather than let a bruised ego dismiss something that could help you.

Erik (I'm suprised he hasn't commented yet) often expouses his feeling on this topic, in that the idea that reviews are supposed to be a part of this process or are required for developement is not congruent with the intent of a competition.

I think that's true, but I also think that the subculture of reviews and feedback are what make the songfight message board community so rewarding.

Really, once you win some fights, you do feel like a king (or queen depending on gender or preference) but then... ??

I like the idea of getting better, I like getting feedback, and I like using that feedback to help myself, regardless of whether or not it's required, needed, asked for, or anyother "term of condition".

I have no idea if I made any sense there.

I will say that as a person who has been in a huge number of bands over the past 20 years that I'd rather play with musicians who are supportive and provide feedback, sharing experience and ideas rather than those who are only consumed by their own concepts.

hhmmm. Am I still making sense?

I say yes.

Eric Y. · Post by **Eric Y.** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:37 pm

Leaf wrote:hhmmm. Am I still making sense?

I say yes.

i smell a new silly poll.

Denyer · Post by **Denyer** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:39 pm

Maybe not most important, but I like to see Ruthless 'harsh' comments.

rone rivendale · Post by **rone rivendale** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:34 pm

As long as someone takes the time to review and really tries, it doesn't really matter whether they like or dislike it. It's the effort in listening to your song and taking the time to write out what they really think.

I also like the letter grade or number grade reviews, it makes a good benchmark to see what you got vs what others got in the same fight. It lets you know where you stand.

Märk · Post by **Märk** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:59 am

I LIKE BOOBS.

AND BEER.

Egg · Post by **Egg** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:24 am

I actually just like that anybody reviews at all, but I voted ideas to improve.

1) I'm pretty grateful people are reviewing at all, but what's most important to me IN that review is ideas to improve.

2) Ideas to improve sort of have to take into account the song's overall quality, technical quibbles, lyrics and the artist's musical ability. I see it as the comprehensive shared-thoughts option in this list.

That said, Rone is very right about the usefulness of arbitrary grading systems (especially when coupled with categories like production, vocals, ween-ness, etc.). Even though I don't cull a lot from just getting a D or a 3.5 or whatever, it's much easier to see what somebody WOULD have liked if I can go up and see that they gave somebody else a higher score than me in a specific aspect of the song. In the absence of ideas specific to the piece I submitted, it's cool to see what a person really admires quantified in the reviews...

THAT said, I've never quantified reviews. I also end up with little constructive advice on a lot of songs. But people usually don't complain about my reviews (that I know of).

My favorite way to do reviews is to listen to the songs when they're first posted and then listen to them again a couple times over the next few days. And then wake up one day to find that I posted reviews in a drunken stupor the night before. Strangely, I really like reading those kinds of reviews too. Conversational style that might somehow mention something that leads me to a way to improve the piece or inspire a style change for the next song.

I talk sooo much.

Egg · Post by **Egg** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:27 am

Sven wrote:I LIKE BOOBS.

AND BEER.

PS- This poll is not silly enough. Options like this need to exist to make it sillier. Mindless praise is a silly answer, but it's also a very realistic one. More silly answers (beer and boobs, specifically) please.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:44 am

Leaf wrote:Anything is good. I like the different styles of review...

Leaf:
I liked the intro this post - but after that it became a bit repetitive. A lot of the words were a bit stupid, but some bits had me tapping my foot. Maybe it's just genre bias - but I think you've done better. 8 out of 14.

Paco Del Stinko · Post by **Paco Del Stinko** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:28 am

I think it's great that someone listens to the song, even if they don't like it. Constructive criticism would be ideal but even just being torn to shreds can be looked at as advice. Mix, EQ, etc. is good on the side- the main dish being the song itself: if it's good it'll probably shine through the muck or whatever.

I love reading all of the reviews and get all excited when they're for a fight I entered, patiently reading the others until I get to mine. I'm sure it's been done, here or elsewhere, but a Good, Bad and the Ugly style might be fun.

Bjam · Post by **Bjam** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:14 am

Egg wrote:
Sven wrote:I LIKE BOOBS.

AND BEER.
PS- This poll is not silly enough. Options like this need to exist to make it sillier. Mindless praise is a silly answer, but it's also a very realistic one. More silly answers (beer and boobs, specifically) please.

I didn't think to put 'boobs' as one of the options. Damn my heterosexual female mindset for not thinking of 'boobs'.

(I thought the last one was kinda silly, but apparently not :/)

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:05 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:
Leaf wrote:Anything is good. I like the different styles of review...
Leaf:
I liked the intro this post - but after that it became a bit repetitive. A lot of the words were a bit stupid, but some bits had me tapping my foot. Maybe it's just genre bias - but I think you've done better. 8 out of 14.

FUCKYOUIAMTHEGREATESTYOUYLLNEVERHAVEAHITSONGWITHOUTMEHOWDAREYOUEPRESSACONTRARYOPINION.

I so love your sense of humour. I wish I had the dough to go to The LIVE! show cause we could sit at a table get drunk and make quips all night.

sigh.

erik · Post by **erik** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:22 pm

Leaf wrote:Erik (I'm suprised he hasn't commented yet) often expouses his feeling on this topic, in that the idea that reviews are supposed to be a part of this process or are required for developement is not congruent with the intent of a competition.

I think that's true, but I also think that the subculture of reviews and feedback are what make the songfight message board community so rewarding.

I really only (used to) get into my opinions on the matter when someone would say some shit like "Isn't that what songfight is all about? The reviews, right? I mean, that's why we're all here, isn't it?" Some people need subtle reminders that we're not all the same. (This applies to basically everything in life.)

If certain people reallyreallyreallyreally want reviews or whatever, that's cool, as long as they advertise it as some sort of groupthink consensus or some shit.

Adam! · Post by **Adam!** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:44 pm

The only reviews I dislike are ambiguous ones. You know, those nebulous ones like "Well, this is pretty alright; could be worse; the guitars are a little je ne sais quoi", which leave you scratching your head for longer than it took the reviewer to write. If I'm listening to a song that has had some effort put into it I'll try to make my review precise.

Denyer · Post by **Denyer** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:57 pm

Yeah I like it when reviews stick to the one language too.

Post by **Spud** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:19 pm

I hope Oust has been reading the boards lately.
Denyer is proof that we don't censor anyone, no matter how boorish they might be.

j$ · Post by j$ » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:31 pm

erik wrote:If certain people reallyreallyreallyreally want reviews or whatever, that's cool, as long as they advertise it as some sort of groupthink consensus or some shit.

And as if by magic, the shopkeeper appears ....

I would offer an angle on Eric's (clearly correct) opinion. I am one of those people who believe that the reviews, and (some) people's desire for them, form the backbone of this community board. If for some reason we didn't have the outlet to review, what would this place be like?

Like a quiet review week, only quieter. No posts except in Silly Polls. And maybe Politics & Crap. Maybe the boards wouldn't exist at all. I personally like to see reviewing as the simplest way (after writing the songs that make the women cry) to give back on a personal level to a community that offers so much.

But of course I recognise the difference between the front page and the boards; but they are symbiotic. To suggest a clear delineation is to be a bit naive in my opinion.

What I want from reviews: specific details on how to improve the song. Not 'hey press Alt and f10 in audacity to get the spangulator running'. More 'this could do with a backing vocal at this point.'

But what do i care? I don't fight any more.

What do you want from a review on SongFight?

What is most important a review?

What do you want from a review on SongFight?