Cover Art Discussion II

[Gemini6Ice]

It's not a giant monster. It's a tiny monster, in a tiny town, in a snow globe.

It's giant to the tiny people.

[Gemini6Ice]

Nice job on the Onomatopoeia cover.
(Edit: Also, fluffy, you've gotten way way better. Great work.)

To everyone who keeps making covers with inside jokes and shitty puns, I just want you to know that there is at least one person who finds them wholly unfunny and unilaterally terrible. Complete waste of time, etc. Please stop.

Is this me? :( I usually interpret the title differently than it is intended, and I decide to go with that.

[Gemini6Ice]

I like Aimee's entries and gemini6ice's this week.

I did LOL at yours. Fluffy's TiTT was much better than mine, but I admit I was hoping my matching covers would get to appear together. (Did anybody actually get the idea behind my TiTT?)

One of these days I wanna collab. on a cover art with some of you people. Photoshop tennis, anyone?

[Nigel (spOOn) Clements]

To everyone who keeps making covers with inside jokes and shitty puns, I just want you to know that there is at least one person who finds them wholly unfunny and unilaterally terrible. Complete waste of time, etc. Please stop.

Okay I will... You only had to ask! though nicely would have been a bonus

[roymond]

To everyone who keeps making covers with inside jokes and shitty puns, I just want you to know that there is at least one person who finds them wholly unfunny and unilaterally terrible. Complete waste of time, etc. Please stop.

I agree to a certain degree, but am mostly not upset by it. If I see the obvious inside joke art I just move on, grateful that someone took the time to illustrate a title. I do think it's an important point, though, since a large percent of the audience isn't going to know what the hell is being referenced. I for one have very little interest or patience for online comics, etc. but I have also grown fond of certain appearences, such as "these are the jokes", etc. so what the hell? Who knows what will appeal to whom or if knowledge of the actual reference is necessary?

[Gemini6Ice]

"these are the jokes"

You lost me.

[Nigel (spOOn) Clements]

You know what get's me, a couple of weeks ago the fightmasters put a out a call for cover artists, because they had fights going on that weren't covered, then you get people complaining about the cover art???

Now I've never made any secret of the fact that if I'd ever submitted anything first and then someone submitted something obviously better that I wouldn't contact the fighmasters personally and say "hey don't use mine, use that guys, it's so much better".

But what fucks ME off is whining idividuals who haven't got anything better to do with there lives than moan about what other people do...

Get off your fuckin' arse and get a fuckin' life.... dweeb!

[fluffy]

Well this should be interesting.

[Nigel (spOOn) Clements]

Could be but like a lot of people here they post their anonymous comments then run away, NO BALLS!

I don't have any problem with people not liking stuff, but if they haven't got the guts to address those concerned individually by NAME and in a courteous manner, then they must be really small minded tossers.... I suggest they get out more!!

[john m]

I've strongly disliked the kind of cover art I previously mentioned since long before whatever call to arms to which you're referring. Furthermore, I had typed some further explanation and response to clarify my point, but I ended up closing the page without posting because 1) contrary to what you may think, I'm not trying to make anyone upset, and 2) I do have "a fuckin' life" and do "get out more!!" I didn't personally call anyone out because I have better things to do than get in a silly flame war over poor art, and more pertinently because I'm still trying to be nice and respectful; my original post defies that a little because I've kept my mouth shut over this for so long now (years) that I couldn't hold back from jabbing a little. Really, do I need to call anyone out by name? I can be specific and personal, but what would it accomplish? If someone is submitting some expression of the face-value pun every week, they ought to know it without someone throwing it at their face. I'm not trying to play art critic with individual works because (for the millionth time) this is not ArtFight.

I believe one such site was started long ago; I don't know if it's still functional (or even where it is/was), but if you want an ArtFight, the option is available to you. This is SongFight; no matter how brilliant the cover art turns out, it is meant to accompany the music. People are forgetting that they are making cover art. Cover art was about people who didn't have the time/talent/desire/etc to submit songs but still wanted to contribute in some fashion. Cover art on an album is a complementary visual piece. It doesn't try to sum up everything contained in the album it accompanies; it's a striking, memorable visual design meant to easily identify the album. That's all.

This is not to say that making cover art funny and good is impossible; that's been done before. (In fact, this week's "Onomatopoeia" cover is a good example.) I just find the whole process of cover art thoroughly pointless when the time and effort to draw/paint/otherwise create meaningful, quality art are overlooked in favor of stick figures, webcam-whoring, inside jokes, and cut-and-paste clipart. I'm not asking for Monet every week, but a little more effort in the planning stages wouldn't hurt.

--

To prevent from double- (or triple-, meh) posting:

"these are the jokes"

You lost me.

A SongFight-spawned inside joke, from the #songfight! IRC chatroom and the "unfunny" webcomic. A perfect case in point, especially since you didn't know what it was.

I do think it's an important point, though, since a large percent of the audience isn't going to know what the hell is being referenced.

Thanks for your response, roymond. This sentence is exactly my issue with inside jokes in cover art. SongFight can embrace branching out and reaching more people (Attack of the Show, mentions in magazines, etc), but it can also embrace inside jokes in cover art, which is effectively bringing everyone back into this members only club we're creating for ourselves. A little confusing, at least.

[fluffy]

FWIW, John, I feel the same way. Thank you for eloquently summarizing my thoughts on the subject which are way less elegant.

If I were to have said something it would have gone something like, "God damnit this cover art fucking SUCKS. Don't even bother if this is what you even had in mind from the beginning."

[sausage boy]

My view is thus.

Print album art comes in two forms, well, three, really. The general statement art, the followers art and the third one is that pop sensation practise of just sticking a picture of the singer on the cover.

General statement is something that any Joe on the street can pick up and, theoretically, understand what it means. Followers art is aimed more at the fans of the artist, and would include refrences and jokes and such to the band or its music. Either has its pros and its cons.

I do realise that my No Relation for this week is a prime culprit towards this argement. I do try and do more general covers when I submit, but oddly, it seems that whenever I do a general cover, it is never the site art, while my follower art always is.

SongFight, especially in a fight where we are looking at 11 titles, does lend itself towards this kind of eccentric wankery once in a while.

[Denyer]

fluffy your titts look good.

[Gemini6Ice]

Cover art was about people who didn't have the time/talent/desire/etc to submit songs but still wanted to contribute in some fashion.

A very true point. This is a major reason why I do it. I like being a PART of song fight, even though I have no musical expertise or talent.

I just find the whole process of cover art thoroughly pointless when the time and effort to draw/paint/otherwise create meaningful, quality art are overlooked in favor of stick figures, webcam-whoring, inside jokes, and cut-and-paste clipart. I'm not asking for Monet every week, but a little more effort in the planning stages wouldn't hurt.

Well, I think I'm safe as to my name not being the name not named. Got it? :0 I usually spend at least a few hours on my cover arts. I do get annoyed when I see what seems to amount to no more than Google Image Search + text overlay. And I've appeared in only two of my cover arts: Glass Eye and I Forgot to Remember.

"these are the jokes"

You lost me.

A SongFight-spawned inside joke, from the #songfight! IRC chatroom and the "unfunny" webcomic. A perfect case in point, especially since you didn't know what it was.

Yeah, I have never been in that chat room. Despite having actually legitimately registered my IRC client, I never seem to use it.

I do think it's an important point, though, since a large percent of the audience isn't going to know what the hell is being referenced.

A few of my covers are a little obtuse, but I don't think they're ever ISJs. For example, my "Terror in Tiny Town" was using what would frighten a town of very skinny (i.e., tiny) people: CUPCAKES!

[Gemini6Ice]

My view is thus.

Print album art comes in two forms, well, three, really. The general statement art, the followers art and the third one is that pop sensation practise of just sticking a picture of the singer on the cover.

Why not more "pop sensation" art? Oh, wait...

[john m]

SongFight, especially in a fight where we are looking at 11 titles, does lend itself towards this kind of eccentric wankery once in a while.

If it was "once in a while," I wouldn't have any complaint. It's every week.

If anything, it's not SongFight that lends itself to eccentric wankery, it's (again) the quality of the titles, but that's another rant I don't want to get into.

[Ikari]

If anything, it's not SongFight that lends itself to eccentric wankery, it's (again) the quality of the titles, but that's another rant I don't want to get into.

I have trouble thinking of what to do for most of the titles...

...That is relevant anyway.

[Nigel (spOOn) Clements]

I've strongly disliked the kind of cover art I previously mentioned since long before whatever call to arms to which you're referring. Furthermore, I had typed some further explanation and response to clarify my point, but I ended up closing the page without posting because 1) contrary to what you may think, I'm not trying to make anyone upset, and 2) I do have "a fuckin' life" and do "get out more!!" I didn't personally call anyone out because I have better things to do than get in a silly flame war over poor art, and more pertinently because I'm still trying to be nice and respectful; my original post defies that a little because I've kept my mouth shut over this for so long now (years) that I couldn't hold back from jabbing a little. Really, do I need to call anyone out by name? I can be specific and personal, but what would it accomplish? If someone is submitting some expression of the face-value pun every week, they ought to know it without someone throwing it at their face. I'm not trying to play art critic with individual works because (for the millionth time) this is not ArtFight.

I believe one such site was started long ago; I don't know if it's still functional (or even where it is/was), but if you want an ArtFight, the option is available to you. This is SongFight; no matter how brilliant the cover art turns out, it is meant to accompany the music. People are forgetting that they are making cover art. Cover art was about people who didn't have the time/talent/desire/etc to submit songs but still wanted to contribute in some fashion. Cover art on an album is a complementary visual piece. It doesn't try to sum up everything contained in the album it accompanies; it's a striking, memorable visual design meant to easily identify the album. That's all.

This is not to say that making cover art funny and good is impossible; that's been done before. (In fact, this week's "Onomatopoeia" cover is a good example.) I just find the whole process of cover art thoroughly pointless when the time and effort to draw/paint/otherwise create meaningful, quality art are overlooked in favor of stick figures, webcam-whoring, inside jokes, and cut-and-paste clipart. I'm not asking for Monet every week, but a little more effort in the planning stages wouldn't hurt.

Okay that's cool though in places I have no idea what you're on about... it's a shame that you only deem to respond after I've pushed the envelope sOOOO far over the edge.
It ain't a flame war if you don't start it with clonflagrational statements, there's no smoke without fire, so why start it...
ALL YOU GOTTA DO IS SAY TO THE GUY YOU HAVE THE PROBLEM WITH...
"SORRY GUY I GOTTA PROBLEM WITH THAT, COULD YOU EITHER TONE IT DOWN OR TRY A LITTLE HARDER" either on a forum or via a PM, nobody gets upset that way.

It strikes me as pompous that someone starts quoting years! at someone whose only been here months and was only trying to help, because two/three weeks ago the fightmasters asked for help! only last week they were still looking for 3 pieces of cover-art so the whole 11 fight thing could get under way. jesus just how over-inflated can your ego be, get your facts straight, look at the whole issue and then see if you still want to throw the first stone.

Like I said if you don't like it submit something better, and I'll willingly withdraw mine, like is that so hard to understand, I'm not trying to take the moral high ground here, far from it. I just have a very basic point about courteousness, whereby you shouldn't snap the head off the new guy when your upset about plenty of stuff that went on before the new guy got here, and even if you can't help yourself doing that then at least let the new guy know that it's his head your snapping off!!

This is my entire point and going on about other stuff seems to then detract from that point, you made a sweeping statement, I took offence at that statement, decided that you were either having a go at me, or if not then someone else, but looking at the submissions it didn't take much to work out, I then said okay, but asking nicely would have been a better way to go about things. then nothing!!! so yes I pushed you into responding, but the original point stands, so therefore address it.

Please!

[Gemini6Ice]

If anything, it's not SongFight that lends itself to eccentric wankery, it's (again) the quality of the titles, but that's another rant I don't want to get into.

I have trouble thinking of what to do for most of the titles... :(

...That is relevant anyway.

Well, that's supposed to be the challenge. For cover art or for music?

[Gemini6Ice]

This is my entire point and going on about other stuff seems to then detract from that point, you made a sweeping statement, I took offence at that statement, decided that you were either having a go at me, or if not then someone else, but looking at the submissions it didn't take much to work out, I then said okay, but asking nicely would have been a better way to go about things. then nothing!!! so yes I pushed you into responding, but the original point stands, so therefore address it.

Please!

He implied that his issues span a LONG period of time, not just after you starting helping us with cover art. :) So it cannot be just you.

Instead of getting upset or offended by it, just take the core of constructive criticism he's making--to ALL of us. You shouldn't stop making art just because of negative comments. Just work on improving your submissions to reflect intake of critiques. We're all here to become better artists and to help others become better artists, musical and visual. The tone of others' words may seem harsh, but the best thing to do is to ignore the tone and eat the meat.

http://1kbwc.gemini6ice.com/randomcard.php?cardnum=277

EAT THE MEAT!

[Nigel (spOOn) Clements]

Okay I get it, I fully understand now, obviously I have to shut up because I don't have a valid point, that's cool!
I don't want to argue against everybody, 'specially when that everybody has known each other for such a long time, I will stand by my original post and let you guys get on with it, that way I can't get upset by anonymous sideswipes, and thinly veiled put downs, I can live with that.

I'd like to state that I've never used Googled images, all pictures are taken using the people close to me, or are from around my locale, my personal interpretation of titles is obviously going to be different from the vast majority of other submitters due to my cultural difference from the vast majority of other submitters.

I just guess that I thought I deserved a less antogonistic approach for offering my assistance, obviously that's not the way it works, which again now I know that basic fact, my understanding is greatly increased.

I think it's a shame that there could be fights without coverart, any art is better than no art, but I'm sure that at least for the immediate future this isn't going to happen, but who knows what the future may bring.

I also think it's a shame that my point has been taken way out of context and smothered by loads of other stuff which I have no way of being able to comment on as it all happened before I got here, but what the heck! Okay I'll shut up now and be a good little boy, no more rocking the boat, I'll eat ALL the meat, right down to the ball sack if that's what makes people happy, I don't have a problem there.
by placing the following comment I hope to end this obviously heated debate.

I APOLOGISE PUBLICY FOR OFFENDING ANYONE WITH MY RECKLESS COMMENTS AND WISH FOR THAT APOLOGY TO BE HEARD AND UNDERSTOOD BY ALL CONCERNED, I WILL TRY TO DO BETTER IN MY FUTURE ENDEAVOURS AND ATTEMPT TO MAKE MYSELF A MUCH NICER AND ALL ROUND BETTER PERSON AND ARTIST IN ALL MY FUTURE PUSUITS. PLEASE FORGIVE MY TRANSGRESSIONS HERE, I HAVE NO WISH TO CAUSE UNNECESSARY OFFENCE TO ANYONE, I HEARBY CONCEDE UNEQUIVICABLY.

All the very best, Nigel (spOOn).

[john m]

ALL YOU GOTTA DO IS SAY TO THE GUY YOU HAVE THE PROBLEM WITH...
"SORRY GUY I GOTTA PROBLEM WITH THAT, COULD YOU EITHER TONE IT DOWN OR TRY A LITTLE HARDER" either on a forum or via a PM, nobody gets upset that way.

Don't think so highly of yourself. This wasn't about you. This was about everyone, over years.

It strikes me as pompous that someone starts quoting years! at someone whose only been here months and was only trying to help, because two/three weeks ago the fightmasters asked for help! only last week they were still looking for 3 pieces of cover-art so the whole 11 fight thing could get under way.

Again, not only talking about you.

jesus just how over-inflated can your ego be

(irony)

Like I said if you don't like it submit something better, and I'll willingly withdraw mine, like is that so hard to understand

Uh, I'm a musician, not a visual artist. No thanks. I would say "I'll leave that to those who can do it well," except, well. You know.

I just have a very basic point about courteousness, whereby you shouldn't snap the head off the new guy when your upset about plenty of stuff that went on before the new guy got here, and even if you can't help yourself doing that then at least let the new guy know that it's his head your snapping off!!

1) I'm still not talking about you.
2) Who's the one being confrontational? You're the one who wants me to make this personal, but I'm not suppsosed to "snap the head off the new guy."

This is my entire point and going on about other stuff seems to then detract from that point, you made a sweeping statement, I took offence at that statement, decided that you were either having a go at me

Yes, that's exactly what you did, and that's your own fault. You aren't the only person ever to submit cover art.

but asking nicely would have been a better way to go about things. then nothing!!!

The thing is, I've been saying the exact same thing for years, evidently for longer than you've been here. I'm not flaunting the fact that I'm a veteran; I'm just saying, this is not about you. Not only do my complaints fall on deaf ears, but these kinds of semi-heated discussions in cover art threads tread on past problems I do not want to bring up again. Anytime I choose to remain vague, it's intentional.

the original point stands, so therefore address it.

Okay, I will make it very easy:

SOME OF YOU ARE VERY BAD AT ART

STOP

--

I had to log out of a different account and log back in as myself, only to find that you continued the argument with yourself. You're the one getting really heated over this, man, but I guess I'll include some of your new points:

I think it's a shame that there could be fights without coverart, any art is better than no art

Debatable, given that SongFight functioned rather well (and with notably less drama) for years without art, but I'm not suggesting that we abandon the idea.

Okay I'll shut up now and be a good little boy, no more rocking the boat, I'll eat ALL the meat, right down to the ball sack if that's what makes people happy, I don't have a problem there.

Again, you're making this about you when it doesn't need to be. I know how to speak; I made a blanket statement intentionally, because not any one person deserves the blame.

--

Gemini, your point to Ikari is a little ill-placed. Not only are the titles the real cause of the problem (whether art or music, how are you supposed to come up with anything meaningful for Old People Shopping in the Afternoon? Don't Forget to Come to My House on Wednesday? Rhymes With Lucia?), but Ikari is a veteran artist.