OK, we know who won (or: Does God exist?)

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:18 pm

You gotta wonder how this whole thing will look in 2204? Will it be like: "oh those silly primatives... to get rooked so bad year after year?" Or maybe "Geez Ma, Geez Pa, I wanna go to Bushland Gardens for National Cheney day... I wanna ride the BinLaden Mountain ride.. please???"

I've always thought, right or wrong, that Bush or his handlers were behind 9/11. Just my feeling on it. And I think they will hold power for a very long time...sadely. Great fodder for politically charged tunes though....rage against the machine anyone?

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:46 pm

Leaf wrote: I've always thought, right or wrong, that Bush or his handlers were behind 9/11. Just my feeling on it.

1. I had a friend recently that was always saying this...of course she is literally crazy. I mean, nuts... in obvious ways. I'm not just saying she was a little crazy to say that she was crazy. I mean this girl wasn't right. Very delusional..talked of helicoptors following me as if I were some person of importance 'crazy'.

2. Bin Laden already took credit for 911... sorry, you'll just have to figure out another way to blame them for something else sadly.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:59 pm

He may have taken CREDIT for it, but does it not seem likely that they're in cahoots???

ummm... [bigwigon]I believe...ahem...using Ocagasm's Razor, that if you (smirk) shave away the uh... story, you will find that Dick Cheney and bin Laden's uncle once shared a cup of tea in London. Tony Blair served.... so ah.... [/removebigwig]

YEAH! Take that anti-consipiracy theory guy!!

I said it was a "feeling" I had... but I'm suprised you haven't noticed the helicopters... sheesh...WHOSE crazy?

erik · Post by **erik** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:09 pm

Hoblit's friend, and possibly you.

Poor June · Post by **Poor June** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:50 pm

roymond wrote:
the Jazz wrote: Science may explain the way the universe works, but you still need something more to explain why. I am also unsatisfied with theories that explain away the origin puzzle by proposing a cyclical universe that never actually "began", but repeats infinitely; I can never stop asking, "Yes, but how did that start up?" God seems to be one of the simplest possible answers to me.
How is God an answer? God has been sold as an answer when it's more a process of acceptance than an explanation of existence. Which is fine, but let's just call a spade a spade. God does not answer why or how, it offers comforting stories (and I'm not belittling their power or relevance) to settle a curious mind. We just can't be satisfied that that's the answer, because it would blind us to the next clue.

Does this fall into "Politics" or "Crap"?

uhm... i think what they are tryin' to say... is science has no real answer for how everything came to be... as does anything else... everything is just a theory... and maybe God is just another theory... but it seems like the simplest theory to believe... somethin' that could happen... because that is the flaw in our understanding... cause too many flaws in many of the believed theories... (confusing i know)

and yes i do believe it falls in the crap catagory

Poor June · Post by **Poor June** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:55 pm

Leaf wrote: I've always thought, right or wrong, that Bush or his handlers were behind 9/11. Just my feeling on it. And I think they will hold power for a very long time...sadely. Great fodder for politically charged tunes though....rage against the machine anyone?

i think they had heard about the threats... but... you can't say they didn't do it because they wanted it to happen...
this country got all kind of threats... guess they chose to take the wrong one not seriously... US is hated... by a lot of countries O_o...

the Jazz · Post by **the Jazz** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:54 pm

roymond wrote:How is God an answer? God has been sold as an answer when it's more a process of acceptance than an explanation of existence. Which is fine, but let's just call a spade a spade. God does not answer why or how, it offers comforting stories (and I'm not belittling their power or relevance) to settle a curious mind. We just can't be satisfied that that's the answer, because it would blind us to the next clue.

You are mixing up God with religion. When I say God, I mean some force or being which has, through some process I cannot comprehend, created everything and is the cause of existence. I don't mean a guy with a white beard who tells people to do stuff and smites things.

Does this fall into "Politics" or "Crap"?

100% Grade-A Crap.

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:05 am

A two-term president, as far as I've always understood it, cannot run as vice president, because if the new president died, he'd become president automatically. Otherwise, I'm sure Clinton would have run as Gore's runningmate in 2000, and won (but still lost

).

If the two-term rule can be worked around by them not being consecutive, that would, in a word, "pwn." Not that I like Clinton all that much, but he's the best our country has had in a long time.

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:16 am

You are mixing up God with religion. When I say God, I mean some force or being which has, through some process I cannot comprehend, created everything and is the cause of existence. I don't mean a guy with a white beard who tells people to do stuff and smites things.

(No, I am not talking about religion)
So, by God you mean something unexplainable rather than something explicit? ...some force or being which has, through some process I cannot comprehend... Which fits my description in that it's not a "known" entity (or answer) at all, but a label given to a mysterious force/situation. The unsolved equation. I don't want to put words in your mouth but whenever I get down to this level, people usually respond in this way. Which, again, is fine and great, but it explains why, when folks (not you, but our president, perhaps - just sayin') defend their actions or their legislation as being "the will of god" it just makes me sick.

No one has to solve this equation, but the fact that it isn't understood doesn't make valid claims of a superior being or force or anything.

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:37 am

roymond wrote:folks (not you, but our president, perhaps - just sayin') defend their actions or their legislation as being "the will of god" it just makes me sick.

Oh, which gives Bush the same stated motivation as the terrorists. Ouch. The will of God. Or Allah.
-bill

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:58 am

The Sober Irishman wrote:A two-term president, as far as I've always understood it, cannot run as vice president, because if the new president died, he'd become president automatically.

The article stated that in a case in which the VP became the P... they could run two full terms and up to two years as successor. If that person becomes president by succession and is in office for more than two years as teh successor..they are only eligible for one full term as President.

In otherwords, no President can be president for more than 10 years for any reason. (but I somehow get the feeling that'll change soon)

Leaf, do0d, there are helicoptors all over the place, fly around at night right over my apartment. Of course I live less than one mile from a Hospital. TGH. Whenever I'd explain that to her she'd be all like 'no, I'm talking about the military choppers'. In which I have to remind her that we live 5 miles from Central Command.

She is/was (she moved) very extreme left winged. Michael Moorish type... 'cept when she had the least bit of alcohol in her system... she became 'crazy' and went on with her impossible theories. Nuts that girl is I tell ya.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:28 am

...yeah...but was she hot??

Let's stick to the important stuff....

(hmmm just realized that last statement could be severely misunderstood...)

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:56 pm

Leaf wrote:...yeah...but was she hot??

Let's stick to the important stuff....

(hmmm just realized that last statement could be severely misunderstood...)

Well, I would have hit it... but thats not really working in her favor. She was not exactly hot, no.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:59 pm

ooohhh...."not exactly hot" sounds like looks good from afar, don't talk to it.

For the record: I AM NOT CRAZY.

I just think that the potential for evil exists in American leaders as much as it does in ARabic ones... and Bush has never looked like an ethical guy to me. ... although what career politician ever does?

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:38 pm

Leaf wrote:
I just think that the potential for evil exists in American leaders as much as it does in ARabic ones... and Bush has never looked like an ethical guy to me. ... although what career politician ever does?

I think we can both agree on that.

the Jazz · Post by **the Jazz** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:23 am

roymond wrote:So, by God you mean something unexplainable rather than something explicit? ...some force or being which has, through some process I cannot comprehend... Which fits my description in that it's not a "known" entity (or answer) at all, but a label given to a mysterious force/situation.

Just because I do not know the answer, or cannot understand it, does not mean that no answer exists. That's the way I see it, anyway; I'd rather there be an answer that I don't understand than no answer at all, and I think God fits as a possible answer that I don't understand.

erik · Post by **erik** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:40 am

the Jazz wrote:Just because I do not know the answer, or cannot understand it, does not mean that no answer exists. That's the way I see it, anyway; I'd rather there be an answer that I don't understand than no answer at all, and I think God fits as a possible answer that I don't understand.

Just because I do not know the answer, or cannot understand it, does not mean that God exists. The way I see it: I'd rather keep waiting for an answer than accept an answer for the sake of having an answer.

I hope I'm not being an insulting cock, just trying to voice a different viewpoint.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:23 am

15-16 puzzle wrote:
the Jazz wrote:Just because I do not know the answer, or cannot understand it, does not mean that no answer exists. That's the way I see it, anyway; I'd rather there be an answer that I don't understand than no answer at all, and I think God fits as a possible answer that I don't understand.
Just because I do not know the answer, or cannot understand it, does not mean that God exists. The way I see it: I'd rather keep waiting for an answer than accept an answer for the sake of having an answer.

I hope I'm not being an insulting cock, just trying to voice a different viewpoint.

Personally I understand what you are saying.

I believe in God for many other reasons..and the closest I can come to God being the 'answer' for something is this: I look outside and I see all of this biological wonder and cycles of life and the trees and the beautiful sky and how everything has adjusted to the distance of the sun as we twirl and spin around in our galaxy. (to me)There is something much greater at work than man's technical scientific answer. To me, sceince is just a technical explanation of our surroundings.

j$ · Post by j$ » Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:35 am

I believe in 'something more' - I don't particularly need to have it confirmed, or give it a name, but i have once, maybe twice, in my life, had experiences to which conventional logic can not offer any explanation that satisfies me. Perhaps it's just a lack of understanding of those conventional logics, but 'something more' will do for me.

The point i'm making being that I am not looking for an answer. I try to take responsibility for my actions. But that doesn't preclude a little bit of faith (small 'f').

J$

Adam! · Post by **Adam!** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:28 am

Here's a question to all you theists out there, one that has bugged me since I was old enough to be annoyed by things more important than sand in my shoes. So here it is.

If God knows, well, everything, including what will happen, where is the allowance for free will? It's basically just theological fatalism in a nutshell, but it always bothered me when I was young and impressionable. However, I am unfamiliar with most religions, so this argument may not even apply at all.

c hack · Post by **c hack** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:37 am

Future Boy wrote: What happenes to music when you turn off the stereo or you stop playing your guitar? The music was there, right? You heard it, right? And I'm not talking about the sound waves, I'm talking about <i>the music</i>. Or, alternatively, what happens to all of the active processes when you turn off your computer?

I'm still articulating a response to this.

15-16 puzzle wrote:Just because I do not know the answer, or cannot understand it, does not mean that God exists. The way I see it: I'd rather keep waiting for an answer than accept an answer for the sake of having an answer.

the thing is, waiting for an answer isn't gonna get you anywhere. You have to actually look for it to find it.

15-16 puzzle wrote:I hope I'm not being an insulting cock,

Of course you're not.

Puce wrote:If God knows, well, everything, including what will happen, where is the allowance for free will? It's basically just theological fatalism in a nutshell, but it always bothered me when I was young and impressionable. However, I am unfamiliar with most religions, so this argument may not even apply at all.

That's the big question, isn't it? It's related somehow to how we perceive time vs. how God (who time doesn't apply to) perceives it.

Adam! · Post by **Adam!** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:01 pm

c hack wrote:That's the big question, isn't it?

You just summarized my personal problem with faith: For me God always created more questions then He answered.

OK, we know who won (or: Does God exist?)

Who will win the presidential election?