Hi-hat question for the drummers

Rabid Garfunkel · Post by **Rabid Garfunkel** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:40 am

I'm shifting to acoustic drums, and puzzling over the hi-hat.

What space between the top and bottom cymbals do other drummers here prefer (off the top of my head, Blue, Leaf, Ken, Jolly Roger are the ones I'm thinking of... Albatross hasn't sat at an acoustic set for decades, and I'm sure he doesn't remember heh).

I've got them at 1.5 inches apart (±3.75 cm? for y'all north of the border) right now, and they're almost right. Can't tell if it's setup or personal suck at this point.

This is a 10mb, 9 minute mike placement and board settings test, and I stress that it is not good drumming in any way. Posted only for completeness' sake, if someone wanted to hear the sounds that I'm getting out of the hat.

This is a completely different, and rather loud flash ode to a hat, not done by me. Hatt-baby, yo.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:45 pm

It depends on what you want. There is no rule.

I keep mine about an inch apart, so that when the pedal is released, they do not touch.

Some people have them around 2 inches apart... I dont' like that because I use my hihat pedal constantly. Not just for openings, put also to change the feel of the hihat part...push down hard for a tight crisp sound, keep it loose for splashy rock sounds... with the cymbals closer together, it minimizes the ankle bending.

It also depends, a little bit, on whether or not your cymbals have holes in the bottom to break up the airlock. (a squishy, mushy crap sound when you push the pedal together). My cymbals have two holes drilled in the bottom (by the manufacturer) so they don't airlock, and I find I can keep the cymbals closer together than when I use my regular hats (no holes). sometimes people use that angle tilting mechanism under the hihat to defeat the airlock...but I personally don't like having one cymbal angled differently than the bottom.

If you ever watch jazz players...sometimes they'll reach out and spin the hihats... that's to break up the airlock so they can get a nice, tight clean chick out of the cymbals.

Nice.

Tight.

Clean.

"chick".

For jazz.

The other thing I do is I play my hihats lower than alot of people, so that I can use the tip of the stick on the bell and ride areas of the hihat, but also lay in with the shoulder of the drum stick for splashy, AC-DC hihat sounds.

If it's too high, I'd have to raise my shoulder up and hold my arm...and that's not too ergonomical. But, it's fashionable with rock players to have the hihats up at shoulder height... well, SOME rock players. I dont' like that because it's just not versatile enough. Depends on style I suppose.

No rules though.

deshead · Post by **deshead** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:17 pm

Another vote for an inch apart. I never play the hats wide open, though.

Rabid Garfunkel wrote:if someone wanted to hear the sounds that I'm getting out of the hat.

Based on that, I'd say you want them closer together .. You never really get that nice tight "chick" sound Leaf described.

(I know it's only a sample, but just in case: There's also too much "room" in the hat sound on your mp3. If you're going to record the kit like that, you'll need a mic closer to the hi hat, or it'll never cut through the mix.)

Leaf wrote:The other thing I do is I play my hihats lower than alot of people, so that I can use the tip of the stick on the bell and ride areas

The only problem with this is it's a little harder to get the hat bleed out of the snare mic. (That said, you lowered my hat when you played here, and I never bothered raising it back up ... Score one for Leaf.)

Rabid Garfunkel · Post by **Rabid Garfunkel** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:55 pm

Thanks Leaf (and Des!). I know there're no rules, heh. Especially with the tight... ah, yeah.

But I also know what the list's drumming sounds like, and from that, thought it'd be edgeycational to know what the gaps are for each of you.

Des: yeah, was thinking I'd have to take that mike on the hi-hat side in, too (currently hanging from ceiling, about 5' to the left of the hat--it was there for room noise/air/loud things before the set congealed in its present form in a different location in the room).

Three mike setup, dynamics on the left and right (the one mentioned above, and the other on a low stand aimed inbetween the ride and "toms" @ 2'), and a condenser 4' in front of the center of the set (at vocal mike height).

ken · Post by **ken** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:14 pm

I think I go less, maybe half an inch. I put them even closer after reading about how bad open highats are for recording. I personally think you want them as close as you can get them without the two cymbals touching. I mostly keep mine together and just like to add the little open then close accent. If I was playing jazz, I might want a bigger gap so I can get more volume when closing them on 2&4.

ken

Reist · Post by **Reist** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:49 pm

I'm really honored that you included me in that list of people. I thought I'd give you a few pictures of how I've got my hat set up, especially since I set it up a bit strange, at least compared to the drummers who I know personally.

So my overheads are about this high over my set ... if you needed to know that.

Also, remember these are crap b8 cymbals that came with the set, so it's bound to sound better if you've got better quality cymbals.

And here's some pictures from the side so you can see the distance between them.

As you can see, the hats are pretty close to each other. That's the setting I use for everything I do, so what you see is what you've got. I hope this was somewhat helpful for you/other people as well.

ps. I don't claim to be a genius at this stuff ... especially the mic-ing techniques. Probably better to listen to Des or Rabid on that one.

ken · Post by **ken** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:05 pm

Not to hijack this thread too far, but I see that Jolly Roger has his tom mics set up like a live show. For studio, you should move them farther away from the drum. Bleed in the studio is your friend.

I also like your creative overhead line.

Ken

Märk · Post by **Märk** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:13 pm

Leaf wrote: Nice.

Tight.

Clean.

"chick".

I love nice tight clean chicks.

(come on, you must have known I'd bite on that)

WeaselSlayer · Post by **WeaselSlayer** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:17 pm

I keep my hi-hat pretty close to closed. I generally set it up so that I lower the upper cymbal down onto my finger, tighten it, and have it at about where I want it. I love the sound I get out of that for some reason.