Should I buy an Epiphone Viola Bass?

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:21 am

My wife is buying me a new bass for my birthday - so we went shopping today and I've narrowed my search down to 2 contenders.

Initially, the Yamaha RBX270J seemed to be the ticket. It feels very nice, sounds good, and only costs AUD$400. For my purposes - it will more than satisfy my needs.

Then my wife caught sight of the Epiphone Viola Bass. It looked a bit 'gimmicky' to me a first - but when I played it - I was very impressed. Sounds and feels really good - and looks very cool. It also has a hollow body, so it is very light and a smaller neck and narrower fretting - so my wife (who is also a Beatles freak) decided that if we get the Epiphone, because it is smaller and lighter - she will start taking lessons and learn to play as well. This is all fine by me - the Epiphone will also suit my purposes - and if my wife wants to spend and a bit extra money on me (AUD$650), all well and good - after all, I'm worth it. And if she will also use the bass - everyone's a winner!

I do have one concern however that I hope someone here may be able to elaborate on for me:

The guitar-shop-dude who tried to sell me the Yamaha told me not to buy the Epiphone because it may have 'intonation problems'. He reckoned that because of the shorter neck length and the old-fashioned bridge thing on the Epiphone, that it could lead to tuning problems. The main reason I need a new bass is my old bass has a twisted neck and bad tuning problems - I want a nice new bass with no tuning problems. I would very much like to get the Epiphone - but I don't want to buy a tuning problem.

Does anyone think the guitar-shop-dude has a point? Or is he full of shit?

Paco Del Stinko · Post by **Paco Del Stinko** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:50 am

He may have a point, down the road, if the saddles on that bridge aren't adjustable but it does have a truss rod for neck adjustment. With proper maintenance, love and care, it'll probably give years of good service. I've never owned an Epiphone, but the 1980's Yamaha guitar I had many years ago and for many years, though lacking personality tone-wise, was a rock. Still, the hollow body tone is very nice, short scale is a breeze to play. Either way, congratulations and happy birthday! 40, right?

king_arthur · Post by **king_arthur** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:36 am

Well, I have an Epiphone bass that I've had for at least 20 years, and it has been really reliable - at one point, one of the pickups kinda unscrewed and was sitting way below the strings, so the signal was really low - had I realized that's what the problem was, I could've easily fixed it myself, but basically it's been a very nice bass. It's NOT the viola model, and it does have adjustable saddles.

Even on the ones where the saddles aren't individually adjustable, it's possible that the whole bridge can be moved, or raised and lowered, and/or different gauge strings used... there are lots of ways to fight with intonation problems (though not with a twisted neck, obviously).

Charles

Post by **Lunkhead** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:49 am

The only Epiphone I've ever had is an acoustic-electric guitar which has been serving me well for 12 years now. I can't speak to the quality of their other products but so far my one experience with the brand has been very positive. And I think the Viola is totally cool looking, whereas the Yamaha is totally bland, so go for it!

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:22 pm

The non-fixed bridge is certainly an issue to be concerned about. Every time you change strings you must reintonate it. I deal with this issue with my mandolin and my banjo, and it is a pain.

The biggest reason I would put forth against the viola is that it is a terribly non-versatile bass. It is great for sitting back and fingering, but that's it. If you are at all interested in more advanced playing in the future - like slapping - the viola is not the bass to get. The strings sit incredibly high above the body, making standard hand anchoring techniques useless.

Having the strings so high above the bass present another problem: Terrible tone. Tone comes from wood, and with the strings so high, the pickups must sit way outside the body. So all of your tone is coming from cheap Epiphone pickups instead of.. cheap Epiphone wood.

Also, the Epi's are usually Gibson copies, but this is a Hofner copy. I'm not keen on completely off-brand copies, but that's a matter of taste. Just thought I'd put that out there. It's a very cool looking and impressive bass, until a savvy party sees the headstock.

I own an Epiphone myself, and old 335, and I love it. So maybe you'd love your viola.

I know bzl has one, and I did a full setup on it at SFL Boston, so I got to know it pretty well. It played great for what it was, but it probably wasn't the best bass for the show, for lack of versatility.

The Yamaha is probably a better bet long-term for you. I always liked the RBX series when I had them in the store. That bass will let you grow as a player, and will be less confining in terms of where you can take your music. And, in my opinion, it is easier to play.

To me that's the deciding issue. Cool-looking bass your wife likes, or easier to play and maintain bass that will serve you more down the road.

/snob

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:32 pm

Also, to clarify: The Epi viola is not a 'hollowbody.' There's a very small chance it might be chambered, but a hollowbody it is not. The body is extremely small to begin with, and is made of laminated maple (20-30 layers of glue and maple). Maple is light to begin with, so a small maple body, possibly with chambers, but probably not, is the likely source of the lightweight feel.

And I think people may be confuse about the style of bridge here. It is completely free-standing. That is, the only thing holding the bridge on the body is the strings. That means when you change the strings, you must reposition the bridge. Also, there's a chance of accidentally moving the bridge around by bumping it too hard, especially if you have light enough strings on it. Lighter strings = less string tension = less force keeping the bridge in place.

bz£ · Post by **bz£** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:46 pm

Sober has said most of the important stuff already. I will add that I like mine, even though it is really the opposite of versatile. Can't slap effectively, and so on, but at the moment I can't afford the Bongo or the fretless Lakland that I would really like. Bought mine used probably mid-nineties for $300 US from a friend whose Beatles cover band fell apart.

One more important thing is that it is a short scale bass! It is about 30.5" from bridge to nut, where a normal bass (~98% of four-strings) is 34". It's maybe easier to learn on at first, and maybe easier for small people to play, but you might have trouble adapting to a different instrument later. Also, serious bass players will laugh at you.

I don't consider short-scale to be a real drawback but many people do. Short-scale strings are sort of rare too, but you can use 34"-scale strings without too much problem.

I always thought mine was chambered but I haven't cut it open recently to see. I'm also a bigger fan than most of Epiphone products; they aren't usually top quality but they're good value.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:28 am

Thanks for the advice everybody.

Sober, you're a font of information - thanks very much, and you pretty much confirmed most of my suspicions. I pretty much agree with you that by far the most sensible choice would be to get the Yamaha - however, though it goes against every fibre of my being to pay more money for something that probably won't do a better job than the cheaper option - I will probably get the Epiphone! (sensible choices have never really been my thing anyway).

I understand the Epi is limited in how it can be played - but I've been playing bass now for over 20 years, and I have never once felt the urge to 'slap' or 'pop' or do anything exotic like that. I'm strictly a plectrum pluckin' dude. I was born with a genetic abnormality (relativly common, I believe) that makes it physically impossible for me to be 'funky'. Also, I play the bass so rarely nowdays, that the short-scale neck appeals very much to my poor, old arthritic fingers.

The 'playability' issues you mention concerned me slightly - so I popped backed into the guitar shop today to have another fidddle with it. Must be the way I play - but there were no problems for me. the Epi - especially with the short neck, 'feels' more comfortable for me.

The best bit is - if in a few months I change my mind and decide that I don't like the Epi after all - I can just blame my wife for the whole thing and go and buy the Yamaha anyway!

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:04 pm

j$ · Post by j$ » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:41 pm

PS I have been avoiding this thread because I didn't own a bass for a coupla years until TODAY - (2nd hand) Fender Precision! Oh yeah. no other bass comes close! Now, I feel qualified to say, CR, why would you want to be Paul f**kin' McCartney when you could be Deedee or at least CJ, Ramone?

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:09 pm

Very nice Johnny. Details, man. USA? Japan? Mexico? Year?

I'd like to get a p bass myself.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:22 am

j$ wrote: Now, I feel qualified to say, CR, why would you want to be Paul f**kin' McCartney?

I've always had this thing for one-legged strippers.

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:15 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:
j$ wrote: Now, I feel qualified to say, CR, why would you want to be Paul f**kin' McCartney?
I've always had this thing for one-legged strippers.

Do you have a thing for hitting them as well?

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:31 pm

Caravan Ray wrote: I will probably get the Epiphone! (sensible choices have never really been my thing anyway).!

...nor has consistency. I got the Yamaha yesterday. Nice shiny black one. I'm very happy

Realised I had a habit of sometimes resting my hand on the bridge when I play - which may not be a good idea on the floating bridge thing. (and I could never have stood J$'s taunts of being a Paul Macartney wannabe).

Actually I very nearly followed J$'s recommendation. I almost changed my mind at the last minute and got a 2nd hand Mex P-bass - there was one in the shop just a few hundred $$$ more than the Yamaha which played really well - but it had a dodgy volume knob (and I'm sure J$ would always advise to keep away from dodgy knobs

)

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:51 pm

Paying more money for a used mexi Fender over a new Yamaha is terrible. I know the market is different in your part of the world, but a few hundred more is just stupid. I really think you made the right decision. Bravo.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:18 pm

The Sober Irishman wrote:Paying more money for a used mexi Fender over a new Yamaha is terrible. I know the market is different in your part of the world, but a few hundred more is just stupid. I really think you made the right decision. Bravo.

AUD$399 for the Yamaha

AUD$750 for the 2nd-hand Mex P-bass
~AUD$1000 for a new Mex P-bass

(AUD$1.00 =~ USD$0.75)

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:08 pm

Paying a dollar more for a used mexi would be marginal at best.

bz£ · Post by **bz£** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:11 am

Caravan Ray wrote:Realised I had a habit of sometimes resting my hand on the bridge when I play - which may not be a good idea on the floating bridge thing.

For what it's worth (right now, probably zero dollars in either of our preferred currencies) that isn't a problem. The bridge doesn't really move around like a Floyd Rose would.

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:58 am

Yeah I was gonna say something about that. In standard tuning you've got over a hundred pounds of string tension holding the bridge in place. Even a mandolin bridge is tough as hell to move at pitch. So my previous post is pretty much wrong. Sober may have been drunk (judging from the spelling errors, I believe that may be the case.

The only potential worry I'd have with the viola is the bridge irritating my hand, like my mandolin's bridge does. But, I don't rest my hand on the bridge... aaaaand neither should you. Why you doin that?

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:10 pm

What I do with my hands is my own business

bz£ · Post by **bz£** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:59 pm

Actually my mandolin's bridge is a lot harder to move than the one on my bass. I think it has to do with the strings being so short, although the bass is not in standard tuning and has a lot less tension in the strings than you'd normally expect. Finally, what I do with my hands is none of your business.

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:45 pm

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=1 ... tnG=Search

How many guys you see with hands on bridges?

Should I buy an Epiphone Viola Bass?

What will I get for my birthday?

Should I buy an Epiphone Viola Bass?