Arms, don't fail me now :(

wages · Post by **wages** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:45 am

40,000+ keystrokes at work a day
8,000+ keystrokes at home a day
30 minutes to 2 hours of guitar playing a day
immeasurable stress levels

What does it all mean? Potentially I have carpel tunnel syndrome

or another RSI (repetitive strain injury). Besides the fact that I have to put the guitar away for a little while, which REALLY sucks, I'm looking for anyone else who has gone through all this. What was helpful? Were you able to avoid surgery? Anything else helpful for me to know?

I'm particularly interested in "self inflicted physical therapy" and alternative practices such as acupuncture (which I hope to have done today), supplements, or even one of those stretchy things (yoga, tai-chi, whathaveya). I don't have insurance and don't want to be diagnosed with something before I get it (pre-existing conditions and all), but I can't afford it!

Any help or insight = much appreciated.

ken · Post by **ken** » Fri May 18, 2007 8:06 am

Stretching and massage helped me when I had arm pain. Also, re-evaluate your ergonomics at work and home.

Ken

Mostess · Post by **Mostess** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:59 am

I'm paranoid about this stuff. I completely change my work setup (where I do little but mouse/keyboard) every 6 months: switch from laptop to desktop keyboard, switch and adjust chairs, new mousepad, get or remove handpads, etc. I have no idea if the change-ups help, but I've been RSI free since I started programming in 7th grade, and guitar playing in 2nd.

My work computer went down a few years ago and I did all my work on yellow legal pads and calculators for a month. I got more hand cramps during that time, but felt a lot less forearm strain. So if that's an option...

signboy · Post by **signboy** » Fri May 18, 2007 10:05 am

Like Ken said, ergonomics is huge. I found that by changing the way I hold the handlebars on my bike, I could ride for way longer. I don't know how this can be applied to typing, but I'm sure there are lots of articles to be found, as this problem is far from rare. Also, shake and stretch your hands often, even if they don't feel like they need it. This keeps the arteries in your wrists from swelling and pinching the nerves. Doing it above your head is even better, if you can get away with it.

http://www.thehealthpages.com/articles/ar-carpl.html

Also, I found this to be awesome.
http://www.wacom.com/graphire/4x5.cfm

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Fri May 18, 2007 10:41 am

Did anybody else read that as "arms don't flail me now?"

Reist · Post by **Reist** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:54 pm

I've had this problem with drumming (and of course writing social notes at school!). Important advice - don't tense the muscles too hard - stay relaxed. We were worried that I had CTS for a while about a year ago, and I couldn't drum more than once a week without extreme pain. Now I just hold my drumsticks really loosely, and I get sore, but not pain. Try stretching ... I've heard that meditation helps too, though I'm not sure how - probably just the relaxation factor.

Kill Me Sarah · Post by **Kill Me Sarah** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:00 pm

Happens to the best of 'em. Check out number seven.

king_arthur · Post by **king_arthur** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:31 pm

A couple years ago, I kinda wrecked my elbows (especially) working on a project for school - a set of 18 songs based on the poetry of Guillaume Apollinaire. I recorded all 18 songs over a period of about two weeks: bass, two guitars, vocals and occasionally a synthflute or something like that. I'm still not entirely better, and I have to be careful not to overdo. For a while, if I was recording a song, I would let Band In a Box generate a MIDI bass part for me rather than playing a real one myself, bass playing was the biggest stress, especially because I tend to do fairly melodic bass parts that often take 10-15 takes to get right...

Charles

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sun May 20, 2007 2:11 pm

http://beesbuzz.biz/blog/e/cat_wrists.php?show=all

Basically, yeah, get a better keyboard, good ergonomics (mostly just keep your wrists straight when typing and bend your fingers instead - most "ergonomic" keyboards are bullshit, though I have a Kinesis Maxim at work which is pretty good and the new Kinesis Freestyle looks even better), and take frequent typing breaks. On Windows and newer versions of Linux I highly recommend <a href="http://workrave.org/">Workrave</a>. I haven't found a decent non-expensive equivalent for MacOS, though, sadly (so on the Mac I use AntiRSI).

Most RSIs are not carpal tunnel. Carpal tunnel is a very specific (and actually not very common) RSI which is also the only one which can be helped with surgery, but even diagnosing it is pretty expensive (if I didn't have insurance it would have cost over $600 for me to find out that I <em>don't</em> have CTS). Most RSIs are either tendonitis or tendinosis. Unfortunately it's difficult to differentiate between them and therapy which is good for tendonitis (stretching exercises) is bad for tendinosis (which benefits more from things like push-ups). Something that helps both a lot is to build up upper-body strength, though (again, push-ups, and also doing reps with lightweight dumbbells).

Your workplace should provide an ergonomic evaluation for you as part of worker's compensation. Ask human resources about it. I know it can be scary to think that they might fire you if they think you're disposable and a potential lawsuit source, but they're required by law to help you out before that (otherwise you can sue for wrongful dismissal).

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sun May 20, 2007 2:18 pm

Also, on wrist braces: I recommend that you wear them for a few days while working so you can get a better feel for how you should hold your hands while typing, but after you've got that down, DON'T wear them while working. (DO wear them while sleeping, though.)

I really like Ace's TekZone braces. They're comfortable and stylish. They're a bit spendier than most wrist supports but $40 for a pair is a lot cheaper than losing the use of your hands. Also, your workplace might reimburse you for them (mine did).

wages · Post by **wages** » Mon May 21, 2007 11:04 am

Thanks guys! I'd rite longr response, but arms...bad... acupuncture was strange, but seemed to help. Will get more.

I am using suggestions. elaborate more later

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:43 pm

you could also set up the thing that lets you dictate text to the comp instead of typing. doesn't help your guitar playing tho
-bill

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sun May 27, 2007 4:19 pm

You could hum your music. Use a kazoo.

wages · Post by **wages** » Mon May 28, 2007 10:53 am

I DO have a kazoo!

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Tue May 29, 2007 2:59 pm

Well there you go. Problem solved!

NatchDan · Post by **NatchDan** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:49 pm

Just wanted to throw in my two cents and say that I'm currently visiting a physiotherapist for a wrist problem. I find that wearing a support bandage helps the pain, but limits the movement, so it's a tradeoff.

The support is awesome if I'm playing Guitar Hero, though.

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:08 pm

Don't use the support long-term. It'll do more harm than good in the long run. Use it while sleeping mostly. Don't use it while working. Guitar Hero is fine though.

NatchDan · Post by **NatchDan** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:37 am

Oh, yeah, I only wear it when I'm doing something that causes pain without it.

wages · Post by **wages** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:11 am

This is my first post in around a month. My arms have been a rollercoaster of pains. The initial sharp pain in the top of my arms is virtually gone, probably due to the changes I've made at home and work. Now I am getting cramping in my forearms and some achyness in my fingers and sometimes in my upper arms, but it is starting to be fewer and far between.

The biggest help has come from:
1) Icing my arms 2 or 3 times a day
2) Got Dragon Naturally Speaking (voice software) at work which I use to answer most e-mails, create directions for others to do tasks I can no longer do, and creating content for webpages/eBay auctions. It's working great, especially considering I haven't read much of the training material. Everyone at work gets a kick out of it ("it looks like you are talking to yourself!").
3) possibly the magnesium and B-Complex supplements are helping, but it is hard to say. I've also been drinking a lot of orange juice to replenish vitamin C and some other minerals that I might have deficiencies in.
4) Acupuncture seems to help for 2 or 3 days, but it definitely relaxes the body overall and I highly recommend it as an "overall tune-up" (I never used it prior to my arms). If I could afford it more often, it would probably be more effective. Will probably go for another treatment this Friday.
5) Spending way less time in front of the computer at home AND work. I find the most repetitive tasks cause the most pain (moving the mouse/trackball a lot, doing a lot of repeat copy&paste operations, and data entry), so I avoid that as much as possible.
6) Now that the sharp pains are gone, playing the guitar seems to help, but that could be mind over matter.

7) taking a lot of breaks, stretching my arms and hands a lot, keeping it loose!
8) Getting keyboard and trackball setup more ergonomically.

Maybe some of the above can help someone else.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:08 pm

I'm glad you're getting a lot of treatment for this & the acupuncture is working well! RSI's are painful in weird & frustrating ways.

I used to have carpal tunnel, and the best advice I got was "eliminate the root cause". This takes some serious consideration just cuz once you're injured, really, it hurts to do anything at all.... but *something* initally caused that injury, you know?

My 'root cause' was mouse clicking more than anything else. After a year and a half of doctors, therapy, ergonomics, & Celebrex, I finally took that advice and had a guy at work rig up a foot-pedal mouse for me (with just a mouse, a soldering iron, a few switch/buttons, and a piece of 2x4). The simple thing let me do my work + allowed my nerves/tendons to heal up without getting repeatedly re-injured.

Anyhow, I really hope you figure out what works best for you. Carpal tunnel sucks. :/

I still always use the foot mouse to prevent reinjury. Now, if I could get the guy at work to rig up a foot-pedal PS2 controller I'll be all set.

Mostess · Post by **Mostess** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:53 am

Henrietta wrote:...had a guy at work rig up a foot-pedal mouse for me (with just a mouse, a soldering iron, a few switch/buttons, and a piece of 2x4).

Now all you need is a business plan...

wages · Post by **wages** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:12 pm

Mostess wrote:
Henrietta wrote:...had a guy at work rig up a foot-pedal mouse for me (with just a mouse, a soldering iron, a few switch/buttons, and a piece of 2x4).
Now all you need is a business plan...

Before you start building a business plan, I've already seen these for sale, two different versions in fact.