Would this make me a star?

drë · Post by **drë** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:27 pm

$11K mic....
Fuck Yeah i better get free shipping on that!!!
is $11,500 motherfucking dollars!!!

seriously thought, any recommendation for a good mic for doing soft close up vocals?
something like a unidirectional condenser mic in the 150-250 price range?
if someone like puce, or with some technical knowledge on mic's has any ideas it would greatly appreciated.

obscurity · Post by **obscurity** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:53 pm

The next mic I'm planning to buy, which might be ideal for you, is the Rode NT2A. It seems to be a very flexible mic, and (most importantly, for me) it is, (according to Sound On Sound's review, at least), an extremely low-noise mic. If you're wanting to do soft close-up vocals, you're probably gonna want to turn the level right up on 'em, so any noise might be an issue (and more so if, like me, you like to compress the crap out of them too).

It's 189 quid, I dunno what that works out to in dollars, might be a touch higher than the range you quoted, but if you can pick one up it might be worth looking at.

Of course, you'd wanna test out any mic you plan to buy before parting with your hard earned cash, but I guess you know that already.

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:53 pm

No, but for half that you can get a star to sing at your sons Bar Mitzvah.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure I'm getting the Rode NT2A or NT1A I think was the other one.

Tonamel · Post by **Tonamel** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:37 pm

The NT1A is fantastic, and only $200. The NT2A is almost twice that.

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:51 pm

I just looked for a pod cast that Frankie did on the Rode mics, but I couldn't find it. It was VERY enlightening. Maybe someone can find it. I think it was in a thread about some guy in the radio biz.
...or I guess you can just PM Frankie.

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:39 pm

There's a cheap Groove Tubes mic that's pretty good (GT66 I think).

I have two Audio Technica AT3035's that work great as overheads and secondary stereo pairs to my B.L.U.E. Dragonfly. They're a touch lacking in low-end response, so it's not great for lower lead male vocals like mine, but it's a really good solution for <$200.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:30 am

get a shure 58 and stop singing like a pussy!

I kid.

I'm actually thinking about mellowing out a little myself. I'm worn out with my year of punk rock.

drë · Post by **drë** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:32 am

Hoblit wrote:get a shure 58 and stop singing like a pussy!

am still waiting for puberty to hit me...

anytime now....

anytime now....

anytime now...

....

.....

crap!
.

ken · Post by **ken** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:13 am

There are lots of good Chinese cardioid condensers these days, from the $99 Studio Projects B1 to a ton in the $200 range. The trick is finding one that complements your voice. I used the B1 for a long time before upgrading to a mic in the $300 range. I still use dynamic mics as well. What mic are you using now? Sometimes upgrading your preamp will make more of a difference than upgrading your mic. Or maybe your converters...

There has been a lot of good talk about the Apex 260 tube mic. I also really like the CAD M179 these days.

Ken

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:23 am

Also, let me chime in with at least a little advice. A small hardware noise gate will at least make it easier to work with the mix later. So even if there is noise because you sing like a pussy (I KEEED I KEEEDING) there will only be large amounts of noise while your singing. LESS HISS throughout the song to deal with in post.

obscurity · Post by **obscurity** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:04 am

Hoblit wrote:Also, let me chime in with at least a little advice. A small hardware noise gate will at least make it easier to work with the mix later. So even if there is noise because you sing like a pussy (I KEEED I KEEEDING) there will only be large amounts of noise while your singing. LESS HISS throughout the song to deal with in post.

Yeah, but you can use a vst noise gate (cubase has one built in, I'm sure there are plenty of free ones too). Can't see what the benefit of buying a hardware one would be, unless you're one of those weirdo luddites who try to do everything in hardware :)

drë · Post by **drë** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:11 am

Hey, this has been very useful so far. Thanks everyone.

I've been using a MXL 990 Condenser mic i got for $60 bucks 2 years ago(your general "welcome to home recording, mic"; i'm guessing).
After reading an article about mic's and Polar pattern ( Omnidirectional vs Unidirectional/Cardioid )
I got the idea that having a good solid unidirectional mic around (or variable Polar pattern) would be useful to help isolate the vocals from the guitar,
When recording guy/guitar stuff; which is most of the time anyways.
Can't really do the whole record each instrument separate thing. It has to do with my parents not loving me as a child or something... Not sure.

I’m going to try and dive into the 50 songs in 90 days project, starting this week, and would like to get a second mic / better mic for this project in the next week or two.

Not really into additional hardware, so the whole mic preamp doesn’t call my attention yet. Even thought the MBOX is pretty weak I guess.

ken · Post by **ken** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:13 pm

Really, it is all about the mic placement, and knowing how to use the patterns to your advantage. The MXL990 is a cardioid mic. You have to imagine a cloud on the front of the mic and point the back of the mic at the thing you don't want on your track. Not really all that useful with GnG recording as it is hard to point the mic at the mouth and away from the guitar below it. Better to find a way to record both at the same time with one mic!

Hey, Karma mics are on sale right now. I bought the K35 and am very happy with it.

http://karmamics.com/products.html

One more thing. I know it isn't as sexxxy as a new mic, but I got Merisan a Presonus Tubepre cheap and it really made a difference in their recordings using the same cheap MXL condenser.

Ken

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:09 pm

That Tubepre is the same that I use, and although nobody would put my vocals forth as stellar, I think they're recorded reasonably well.
-bill

frankie big face · Post by **frankie big face** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 pm

Billy's Little Trip wrote:I just looked for a pod cast that Frankie did on the Rode mics, but I couldn't find it. It was VERY enlightening. Maybe someone can find it. I think it was in a thread about some guy in the radio biz.
...or I guess you can just PM Frankie.

http://www.frankiebigface.com/temp/rode_vs_shure.mp3

The Rode NTV is awesome. I paid like $500 for mine. The NT1 is much less expensive and can serve many many purposes, including the vocal applications you spoke about.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:35 am

obscurity wrote:
Hoblit wrote:Also, let me chime in with at least a little advice. A small hardware noise gate will at least make it easier to work with the mix later. So even if there is noise because you sing like a pussy (I KEEED I KEEEDING) there will only be large amounts of noise while your singing. LESS HISS throughout the song to deal with in post.
Yeah, but you can use a vst noise gate (cubase has one built in, I'm sure there are plenty of free ones too). Can't see what the benefit of buying a hardware one would be, unless you're one of those weirdo luddites who try to do everything in hardware

In the case of noise gate, you're correct. I still prefer noise gate and definitely(especially) compression to be applied inbound. Having both inbound has the advantage of being able to hear yourself well and with less distraction. Two very important things for me when recording vocals. Besides, it makes mixing and wav handling a lot easier.

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:39 am

ken wrote:Really, it is all about the mic placement, and knowing how to use the patterns to your advantage. The MXL990 is a cardioid mic. You have to imagine a cloud on the front of the mic and point the back of the mic at the thing you don't want on your track. Not really all that useful with GnG recording as it is hard to point the mic at the mouth and away from the guitar below it. Better to find a way to record both at the same time with one mic!

Isn't the MXL990 a dual-cardioid, with a cardioid pattern in front and back, due to the way the diaphragm is open on both sides? One tip I've heard from an acquaintance who has been taking sound engineering classes at a local college (but haven't tried yet) is to put it above rather than below you (as is the natural tendency to do).

Also, in general, it's best to record your vocals and guitar separately anyway. If you really like doing both at once in order to not lose track of where you are or whatever, you can record both at once to a scratch track and then individually rerecord each part, which is a technique I've used to some success in some of my less-bad songs.

Project-D · Post by **Project-D** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:28 am

Funny you should ask, I just got the Samson CO2 at my local Sam Ash, they come in a pair, $119. I wouldn't say they're great, but they're worth $55 each for sure. They work pretty well in close up situations, I've been using an Equitek E-100 mainly for voice and guitar, and these work just as well, they make the guitar sound a little mid-rangey which is weird, because their frequency response is pretty flat between 1-11k. I had to back the input way down when I sang at my normal level, they're fairly sensitive. I've haven't tried them for anything other than close mic'ed guitar and vocal and I just got them last night, so take that as you will. They reject off axis sound much better than the Equitek, which is supposedly a super-cardioid, but I hear every dog barking on the block if I'm not careful.

I often hesitate giving advice like this because every voice is different. When I was in college I used the college studios Sennheiser 421 which is a dynamic mic, designed for high SPL but it worked great on my voice. The SM57 wasn't designed to be a vocal mic but lots of people use it. Right Hoblit? Unfortunately you can't really live with a mic before you buy it, and lots of stores don't even have "listening stations".

obscurity · Post by **obscurity** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:35 am

Hoblit wrote: In the case of noise gate, you're correct. I still prefer noise gate and definitely(especially) compression to be applied inbound. Having both inbound has the advantage of being able to hear yourself well and with less distraction.

Ah, yeah, I can see that. I guess I've been spoiled by having the podxt live (and now the 01x), which can monitor wet but record dry.

Mind you, having said that, I think I'd be very wary of using a noise gate on the inbound signal, 'cos I sometimes like to whisper, and I'd hate to screw a decent take 'cos of it.

ken · Post by **ken** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:08 pm

fluffy wrote:Isn't the MXL990 a dual-cardioid, with a cardioid pattern in front and back, due to the way the diaphragm is open on both sides?

No.

http://www.mxlmics.com/condenser_mic/90 ... mxl990.htm

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:46 pm

obscurity wrote:
Hoblit wrote: In the case of noise gate, you're correct. I still prefer noise gate and definitely(especially) compression to be applied inbound. Having both inbound has the advantage of being able to hear yourself well and with less distraction.
Ah, yeah, I can see that. I guess I've been spoiled by having the podxt live (and now the 01x), which can monitor wet but record dry.

Mind you, having said that, I think I'd be very wary of using a noise gate on the inbound signal, 'cos I sometimes like to whisper, and I'd hate to screw a decent take 'cos of it.

Cool, I've found the love in my podXT live also. I honesty feel it's the best piece of music equipment I've ever owned. No more racks and pedals, it's all I need. I've been experimenting with my studio vocals with it too. Mic>podxt live>left and right out to my Fire Box>stereo in to Cubase.
I think I may stop going stereo into Cubase because I can't seem to get the sound right and many have commented on it not sounding good. As a matter of fact, Ken thinks I'm nut apparently, lol. I sing into a SM58.
But regardless, I like running through the podxt first even if I go out mono and dry. The line 6 clean channel rules!

Rabid Garfunkel · Post by **Rabid Garfunkel** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:32 am

Heh, yeah, Ken is definitely down on recording vox in stereo. But that's 'cause none of us do it right. And I can dig that. Get a good solid signal, then muck with it.

Miking, in the Rabid lab: living room->SM58/crystal harp mike/Oktava MK319 (cheap but satisfying condensor)->PreSonus TubePre->PreSonus Comp16->mixer->computer

Found that the room is really important. (Pause for readers shouting "Duh!") Studio room's acoustics are crap for vocals ("Are you singing in a box?") but the living room's got great neutral qualities. Mike choice depends on the application. Final tweaks ('verb/delay, maybe more compression depending on take, silly fx) are done with VSTs.

Vocal mike examples:
Sister Cocaine (Nur Ein II): the Oktava
State of Emergency (for Tex Beaumont, Nur Ein II): SM58
Clause 5, &c., &c.: the crystal harp mike, for the p.a. announcements; the Oktava for the red army men's choir (pun intended)