The Song Fight Bulletin Board

a bebop a rebop wrote:An alto sax is in the key of E flat, because when you read the note E flat on a sax part and push down the keys for an E flat and blow, what you get is the frequency which would be a C on the piano.

Huh?

kill_me_sarah wrote:"warp refraction threshold"

Lord, help us all.

LMNOP wrote:The interval between neighboring strings on a guitar is a fourth except for the interval between the second (B) and third (G) strings, which is a major third.

That's all it means. I swear. Whoever coined that phrase had his tongue firmly in his cheek.

[edit] My bad, that was kinda harsh.

LMNOP wrote:

kill_me_sarah wrote:"warp refraction threshold"

Lord, help us all.

LMNOP wrote:The interval between neighboring strings on a guitar is a fourth except for the interval between the second (B) and third (G) strings, which is a major third.

That's all it means. I swear. Whoever coined that phrase had his tongue firmly in his cheek.

So basically, that means that positioning is constant moving down the strings, correct? You just have to memorize the the positioning difference that happens at the B and G strings.

Yup, there's just a half step difference there. So you basically can use the same patterns with a one-fret shift.

kill_me_sarah wrote: So basically, that means that positioning is constant moving down the strings

The intervals between notes is constant regardless of fret position or instrument

A note is a note. a hz is a hz, If you have tuned a guitar then one would have assumed you understood the string interval thingy.
[EDIT] ok intervals extend the 110 220 440 880 thing - now Im being pedantic - god damn

so please ignore my previous concise and helpfull rosetta stone posts re: keys vs guits

lyall suck, all ya alll !!!

Wow this is all awesome intellectual self-masturbatory claptrap.

I tune it and hit it rythmically with varying degrees of force while moving my left hand fingers around...seems to work well....rinse and repeat...oh and for lefties swap the hitting hand and moving finger hands around that will help you not go crazy!!!

Over the years I have found more interesting ways to move my left and right hand(s) around. Some learned from folks, some from books and the INTERNETS....making music is fun!!!!!

pegor wrote: The intervals between notes is constant regardless of fret position or instrument

i just can't resist pointing out that this isn't at all true. there are lots of other musical systems that call different frequencies "notes" and different differences "intervals."

you raging ethnocentrist, you.

Kamakura wrote:

a bebop a rebop wrote:An alto sax is in the key of E flat, because when you read the note E flat on a sax part and push down the keys for an E flat and blow, what you get is the frequency which would be a C on the piano.

Huh?

A lot of instruments are notated in different keys to make it easier to transfer fingerings across instruments, or to make the notation fit on the standard musical staves better, or probably a bunch of other reasons that I don't know. But, yeah, that's how it is.

blue wrote: i just can't resist pointing out that this isn't at all true. there are lots of other musical systems that call different frequencies "notes" and different differences "intervals."

you raging ethnocentrist, you.

I must not understand what youre saying because it sounds like you agreeing with what I said. But, considering the source, and just to be safe, I've decieded to be pissed off at you anyway.

you suck

check this out for starters:

http://www.kylegann.com/tuning.html#tune3

fascinating stuff with a lot of included mp3s.

many eastern instruments don't adhere to the same intervals or scales as western instruments, was my point - and anyone can, as these dudes have done, make up their own tuning system and scales and so on.

That's not really the way to look at it. You could say a piano is in the key of 'A' because that's the first note on the keyboard. Gospel players might say it's in D flat. Jazz players might say it's in F.

The key of C is certainly one of the easier keys to play, but I don't think one could assign a key to a piano and be technically correct.

Same with guitar. Someone might say a guitar is an 'E' instrument, but that's oversimplifying the instrument.

blue wrote: ... many eastern instruments don't adhere to the same intervals or scales as western instruments...

Yeah I know thats what you meant, In the post you quoted I didn't specify an A or 440hz or a 4th. The language i used was general enough that it applies to any tradition and across traditions.
BTW I was specifcally thinking of a polynesian rabbi playing kabuki music on a sitar. If you imagined anything else its due to your own bias.

Consider my chain yanked ok? jeezuz!

The Sober Irishman wrote:That's not really the way to look at it.

Yes it is, promise. That's how it is for orchestral and wind-band type instruments. I'm not exactly sure how a C on piano became the reference point, but I'd guess because the harpsichord, clavichord, and other keyboards were the most common instruments and because the white key major scale on those instruments is C.

A guitar is in C, by the way, because a C on the guitar equals a C on the piano. Alto saxes are in Eb, tenor saxes are in Bb, trumpets are in Bb, French horns are in F, English horns are in F, clarinets are in Bb, most of the other instruments are in C.

Sorry to be all pedantic on ya, but that's just the way the classical world agreed upon organizing this stuff a few hundred years ago.

a bebop a rebop wrote:That's how it is for orchestral and wind-band type instruments.

Specifically, Transposing Instruments.

a bebop a rebop wrote:I'm not exactly sure how a C on piano became the reference point, but I'd guess because the harpsichord, clavichord, and other keyboards were the most common instruments and because the white key major scale on those instruments is C.

Something to do with the shift in Western music from favouring Aeolian mode (wherein the scale starts on A, which makes a bit more sense,) to favouring Ionian mode.

kill_me_sarah wrote:So basically, that means that positioning is constant moving down the strings, correct? You just have to memorize the the positioning difference that happens at the B and G strings.

If you want my advice, this is a bad way to learn the guitar. It would be like learning how to catch a baseball by first studying calculus. Guitar playing, like baseball, is 90% muscle memory, and ultimately needs to be unconscious. If you fill up your brain with technical details, you'll spend too much time thinking.

You want the Zen of learning the guitar?

Relax your wrist.

Woo, reviving the thread!

I have my Ovation celebrity(Mr Sparkles) and it's a lovely guitar, but it's very bright.

So I'm getting a Martin D15. It's beeeeeautiful. I liked some other guitars, but they'd have little things wrong with them. Mostly tacky design choices (I mean, really, black and white stripe designs? Are we stuck in the 80s here, Takamine? And hey, Guild, that ugly clear pickguard? Yeah, it's real ugly) . I already have a tacky guitar, I don't need another. This is nice, and has a real lovely mellow sound.

The only bad thing is the stupid guy in the store that refused to talk to me and instead spoke only to my Dad. Despite the fact that it will be me who will spend $850, not my Dad.

Bjam wrote: So I'm getting a Martin D15. It's beeeeeautiful.

I got one of these, the Martin DX1E. Had it for 2 years and very happy with it.

I have got to the stage of my life where I hate shopping so much that I am trying to compile a list of preferred supplies of essential items so I no longer have to "shop around". When I buy a product I like - that company joins the list. My list of preferred suppliers at the moment is:

Martin - acoustic guitars
Blundstone - boots
Masseur - thongs (ie. casual footware, not intimate apparel)
Akubra - hats
Pataks - curry paste, chutneys and pickles
XXXX - beer
Houghton's White Burgundy - wine
Huggies - nappys (errr....for my daughter - not because of the beer, wine and curry)
Salvation Army - clothing

That covers about 99% of my shopping needs

Bjam wrote:
The only bad thing is the stupid guy in the store that refused to talk to me and instead spoke only to my Dad. Despite the fact that it will be me who will spend $850, not my Dad.

trust me, knowing your dad, this is a good thing. he would get you the best deal hands down. if it was an option, i'd bring him in with ME.

martin is way good. congratulations. you deserve this. you will do well with it.

my opinions on ovation have been made clear in the past

jack wrote:

Bjam wrote:
The only bad thing is the stupid guy in the store that refused to talk to me and instead spoke only to my Dad. Despite the fact that it will be me who will spend $850, not my Dad.

trust me, knowing your dad, this is a good thing. he would get you the best deal hands down. if it was an option, i'd bring him in with ME.

We weren't gonna buy it at Sam Ash, we went in knowing that. I know my Dad knows about this kinda stuff, way more than I do. It's just that the guy in the music store obviously didn't want anything to do with a teenage girl asking questions about a guitar. But the teenage boys in there he had no problem with answering their (stupid) questions. Dad didn't notice a thing until I pointed it out when the guy was out the room. Probably the guy meant no harm in it, but this isn't the first person that's ignored/dumbed down answers for me in a music store, yet will speak technical with a guy who has a fazed look on their face. Any other female or young Songfighters had issues with that? Maybe it's just people around here, I dunno. It makes you feel pretty stupid, though.

It's how people are sometimes; like Jack said, take advantage of it. I always bring my dad with me when I go car shopping. I decide what I want and he's the whiny old Jewish man who won't let the poor salesman make any money. It works!

Unless you'd prefer a salesperson who won't stop staring at your breasts; I'm sure you could find one if you looked around a little. I don't really have any experience with that particular distractionary tactic, though, so you're on your own.

This isn't a guitar, and I'm not entirely sure exactly what it does, but it looks really cool and costs a lot of money and is probably really really awesome

ElectroHarmonix HOG Guitar Synth pedal:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=153337

The HOG has a series of faders that control levels of octaves and fifths added above and below the root note being played. It can also be used as as a whammy type pedal, resolution filter, and other expression pedal functions. I have one and used it on the main riff of my Pink Ribbon entry, and something else I can't remember right now. It's pretty cool, but not an every day pedal.