starting without any experience at all!

[erik]

..

[deshead]

Traz, there's more than enough info on this site to get you started: http://psalm149.com/articles.htm

Here are some different ways to get audio into your computer: http://homerecording.about.com/od/basictechniques/ (though if you already have a sound card, you should start with that. It's cheapest.)

And here are a couple of pages that'll give you food for thought about how to approach the overall task:
http://www.homerecordingconnection.com/ ... ory&id=571
http://www.homerecording.com/studio.html


Now, back to the thread in progress

[jack]

yes. woo for them. they have their fans. i'm not one of them. but who am i to say what's good?

wreckdom. the iron men of songfight. they took their beating week after week and kept on ticking. did they change for anyone? nope. did people that didn't particularly like their music at least admire their perseverence and faith to their own vision. i did.

[fluffy]

it's the real world

No, it's the Internet. In the real world people usually hide behind a wall of niceness and politeness and won't tell people what they actually think (even if they're writing a letter of rejection).

[Adam!]

Any suggestions to someone just starting out?

Yeah. Write a hundred songs.

This can be generalized to almost any art or skill. Want to run marathons, but you've never even ran a block? Run a hundred marathons. Want to paint landscapes but you've never even held a brush? Well, paint a hundred landscapes. A great way to get started is to just get started. By your one-hundred-and-first song/marathon/painting you may still suck (although I think you'll probably be pretty good), but you'll know your tools and you'll know what you can do with them. And you'll sure-as-shit be better than you are right now.

[Leaf]

Ummm, I haven't said anything like that in this thread.

I like the way that you have tailored it to reflect a broader opinon, but you have said that in the past, without the disclaimer part.

Here's what I see:

Newguy: Help!
Durand: submit songs you write for songfight
Erik: No. only submit songs you like. (subtext: songfight is not about improvement through reviews) .
Leaf: what if you don't have a clue? submit it and find out. (add bunch of opinions that I get when reading or reflecting on Erik's opinion on this in the past and now, inaccurate or as harsh as they may be )
Erik: What I'm really saying is don't promote the opinon that songfight's purpose is to get better through feedback from others.
Leaf don't promote the opinion that it hasn't actually evolved into that state based on most participants experiences, or that there is an actual rule that states this.

You have not stated anything elitist, but I infer that when you pour on the whole "I know the intention of songfight, and no one else can define it with out me stating that they are wrong" schtick.

As far as where the dicussion is at now, we are in perfect agreement that one should have pride in their art and examine it with a critical eye.

Actually, this whole debate about the intent of SF is funny, cause I don't recall reading the following two "rules":

1) Submit songs you like.
2) Do not think for a second that the point of all of this is to use the feedback in reviews as a tool for improvement.

I must have missed that part. Maybe Narbotic wrote it way back when and that's why I missed it.

Ok Puce...how many pages are we at yet?

[Steve Durand]

If your going to write songs you might as well enter them here and get some feedback.

No.

Yes!

[erik]

..

[erik]

..

[fodroy]

submitting only songs that you like isn't a rule, but it's a guideline people should follow...imo.

i didn't like the song that i made for "last day of free speech." so no submission. i didn't miss out. you guys didn't miss out. everyone goes home a little happier for it.

if you know that you don't like what you make, why would you want to improve upon it (with help and feedback from fellow songfighters). i say abandon it, then and there. try something else.

[jack]

reviews and feedback are by-products of songfight, not the purpose. the purpose of songfight is pretty simple. write a song based on the title within a week and send it in.

[blue]

my reply was aimed at keeping the listeners, not the reviewers, out of pain's way.

and Bjam, you at least knew how to play the guitar before you submitted. if the poster had said "yes, i am quite fluent with my instrument," my answer would have been "then bring it on."

but for the love of fuck, people, do ANY of you want to listen to someone LEARN TO PLAY A FUCKING KEYBOARD week in and week out?

you don't. don't even lie about it.

[Leaf]

Look man (as in Erik), I am debating you, clearly.

Your opinion, while valid, comes across like you're stating a rule, not an opinion. One of your pet peeves, clearly, is when people start talking about reviews and how they use them to get better at songwriting. You're telling me to stop? Why do you keep throwing that point out there every time someone talks about that? Why does it bother you so much? You state that "its not the intent of songfight". Obviously, the point you're making is that only things that are "the intent" of songfight are valid. I'm telling you that I disagree, that for me, and many others, one of the points (not the only one, and not the main one) are to use feedback from reviews to improve.

Please don't misunderstand, I am not talking about when people complain about not getting the feedback, I 'm not talking about when people whine that there aren't enough reviews, or the content of the reviews are not to there satisfaction, this is not something I disagree with you one (assuming I understand your perspective on it that is).

I'm not picking a fight with you either. If I misunderstand your true intent, I'm sorry, frankly, I'd like to understand it better, because it comes across to me, (and hey, maybe I'm the only one, I dunno) that your advice is to not rely on, look to or use reviews as a source of feedback for improvement, and that to do this would be against the intent of songfight. Therefore, you are infering a concept of a rule you believe in, and you're stating this as if it should apply to all.

I'm not out to make you "wrong" and me "right"... I love talking about things like this, it's just weird via message board...so for all you troubled souls who think this is a big mean cat fight, sorry, it's not.

Anyway, lay it back on me...

[Leaf]

my reply was aimed at keeping the listeners, not the reviewers, out of pain's way.

and Bjam, you at least knew how to play the guitar before you submitted. if the poster had said "yes, i am quite fluent with my instrument," my answer would have been "then bring it on."

but for the love of fuck, people, do ANY of you want to listen to someone LEARN TO PLAY A FUCKING KEYBOARD week in and week out?

you don't. don't even lie about it.

umm... that's true.


Even though lying about it was tempting just to read the look on your face... I could n't do it with a straight type.

[erik]

..

[Leaf]

You and your semantics...debate, discuss, whatever. For a guy who claims to want to "discuss" this sure reads, both ways, like a debate.
Not once have you awknowledged any spot where I have agreed with you, or where I have accepted your point, or where I have admited not really knowing what you're talking about...which, believe me, is increasing. It almost seems like you are angry, which is pretty sad. I must admit, upon reading your last post, I started to feel it a touch, fortunately, I realize this particular sideways arguement is actually entirely my fault. Just because you have an opinon I don't agree with, doesn't justify me raggin on it.

I stated, right off the bat, that I disagree with your "opinon", however, I made the mistake of disagreeing with an opinion you did not actually state! My bad, as the kids of a cultural background foreign to me would say.

You said (basically):
"don't submit songs, submit songs you like".

Thinking that you have this attitude about using songfight as a place to get feedback for improvement, and in a thread that I mistook as a place about improvement, I stated how I felt when I read your terse and authoritative reply. Once again, I have erred.

I don't have to prove that you have stated an opinion on feedback from review threads though. Why bother? You know you do.

Thing is, you post such well crafted arguements, and seem to get right in to it, so it's tough to let it go once it starts. If I didn't care about your opinion, I would have let the whole thing die by not even posting in the first place though!

I made the mistake of cluttering up the thread with an old arguement you and I never even had. For this, I apologize to the masses, although I do know a few are amused by it, so for that , I say "you're welcome".

[Sober]

I enjoy the company of men.

[erik]

..

[the Jazz]

Of all the garbage that has piled up in this thread, the only things that really bug me are those GOD DAMN INTERNET ACRONYMS. YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY WHEN I SHOVE A FUCKING HAND GRENADE UP YOUR TAILPIPE. And yes, I mean that both ways. Sorry for the interruption; now everyone back to your fun.

[Sober]

Man I love Songfight.

[blue]

I enjoy the company of men.

that's perfectly natural, being from Texas and all.

[WeaselSlayer]

You don't look like a steer!