starting without any experience at all!

[Traz]

Hello All--

As you may be able to tell, I am new to the forums (though I've been lurking around SongFight for a while). I'd like to start trying to make some stuff of my own, but I have absolutely no experience, very little hardware, and no software to call my own.

Recently, I have come into possession of a Yamaha PSR-550, but besides my computer and its speakers, that's about all I've got. I'm more lyrical than musical, but it would be nice to have some sort of rhythm in the songs.

I've browsed a few guides, but most were unhelpful. Any suggestions to someone just starting out? Recommended/necessary equipment and software? Thanks.

[blue]

well, first you need a budget.

do you know how to play the piano?

[HeuristicsInc]

for software, it helps if you state whether it's windows or mac, or something else like a trs-80 or a cray.
-bill

[fluffy]

Dig that <a href="http://www.songfight.org/music/been_to_ ... p3">Yamaha PSR sound</a>!

[Traz]

Piano = a little bit. been through many piano lessons

Oh, I use Windows.

Budget isn't a huge problem, but since I'm just starting out, buying $1000 software doesn't really make sense.

[fluffy]

If you want to get the hang of high-end software, look for a copy of Logic Hit Kit. It's usually $30ish at Barnes and Noble (you find it in the children's section next to where they have crap like "how to make a scrapbook" and whatever). It's basically a kid's version of Logic, and it actually comes with a pretty good complement of stuff, as far as basic multitrack audio and MIDI sequencing go. The downside is that if you want the full app you need to get a Mac, since Logic isn't supported on Windows anymore.

There's lots of free/cheap multitrack recording apps out there too, though. Krystal and Audacity are both good at different things, for example. Also Schism Tracker if you want an oldskool sample-sequencer (great for making drum loops and so on), though it's a bit difficult to learn (it's a clone of an older DOS program called Impulse Tracker which was a clone of ScreamTracker 3 which was a clone of SoundTracker on the Amiga).

If you want to go the illegitimate route, it's all too easy to get copies of Cubase from your friendly neighborhood warez puppy. Cubase and Logic are very functionally-similar, though personally I can't stand Cubase's interface. YMMV of course.

[Adam!]

For a beginner I recommend FL Studio. I got my start with Fruity Loops and it has scaled very nicely as I have expanded my musical interest. It also helps that it is (relatively) dirt cheap. If you do decide to invest in more expensive software down the road, a lot of what you've learned in FL will translate to the new application.

2 cents.

[roymond]

Audacity is free and cross-platform, so you'll find a lot of people using it that can help out. It basically lets you record and mix multiple tracks together. No midi. Lots of plugins and handles high quality audio files in many formats.

This can get you instantly doing the basics of audio production. From there you can continue to consider what it is you want to get into and have one application's interface as reference when comparing others (while downloading demos, etc.)

[blue]

maybe you should practice writing tunes for a year or so before trying songfight.

[the Jazz]

Or you could always find some old 4-track on craigslist and forget the pain and anguish of a computer altogether. For percussion just hit stuff. It's not as bad an idea as you might think.

[erik]

I'm more lyrical than musical, but it would be nice to have some sort of rhythm in the songs.

I've browsed a few guides, but most were unhelpful. Any suggestions to someone just starting out?

Come up with an answer to this question: "Why do you want to make music, instead of poetry?"

[Kamakura]

maybe you should practice writing tunes for a year or so before trying songfight.

Pay no attention to talk like this. Though it's wise to remember that what some think is genius others will think is crap. Don't get discouraged by negative reviews.

As Roymond said Audacity is good.

[erik]

Yeah, pay no attention to the man who advises PRACTICING SONGWRITING. What awful advice.

[Steve Durand]

Well the way to practice songwriting is by writing songs. If your going to write songs you might as well enter them here and get some feedback, harsh as it may be.

Steve

[Bjam]

I'd never written or recorded a song before my first SF entry. People generally ripped it apart, but look at how far I came in a year with doing SF every few weeks. If you like a song you've done, put it together as an mp3, and submit it. Nothing that bad can happen.

[erik]

If your going to write songs you might as well enter them here and get some feedback.

No.

If you <b>like</b> a song you've done, put it together as an mp3, and submit it.

Yes!

[Leaf]

why not? What if you have no idea if it's good, and IT IS? And you win?

I understand that you're trying to protect the integrity of songfight and it's structure, but the structure DOESN'T say "only enter things you think are good". It 's write a song for the title in a week or so... fuck, we all know the rules. This constant attempt to create some elitist rule drives me crazy.


Frankly, I always think people are just gaming the new people with that kind of talk. If you want to win, enter something you think is gonna win. That's all I've ever done...which partially explains my solo effort absences! hahaha.

Seriously, this whole "songfight is not a learning ground" talk is so retarded. Look up retarded, cause it's exactly what I mean. Who writes songs with the attitude "golly, I've written 100 songs AND NOW I'm good? " This is so backwards. It should be a learning experience EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU WRITE.

Dismissing others from showing where they are at... does not attract better players or songs. Songfight attracts EXACTLY what is here.

Sorry Erik, but I'm tired of this whole "don't develop round here son" attitude. It's lame. (not saying you are..just that particular opinion, imo).

[Bjam]

I didn't mean like as in "Hoo boy, this is the most rockingest track ever!" I meant it in a "I feel comfortable that this isn't complete crap that reviewers would hate" I've got a dozen or so SF-songs completely done that I didn't submit to SF because I knew no one would dig them and I'd get ripped apart. Use your own judgement on if you should submit a song.

There's been a lot of crap on SF however, so you're probably safe. Unless you: do white boy crap-rapping, sing totally offkey, do thrashmetal that sounds like you pooped on a mic and then reverbed it up the wazoo, sing songs that will totally offend, do 30 minute instrumentals with 3 pages of explanation, use common soundbites from computers to create a piece, or rip off a song.

[Adam!]

Who writes songs with the attitude "golly, I've written 100 songs AND NOW I'm good?"

That kinda talk can land a boy in a heap of debate. I foresee 5... no, wait, 6 pages of discussion.

[jack]

if you enter a song in songfight, think of it as walking out onto this giant virtual stage where you don't know anyone. some people will inevitably hurl feces (or bad reviews and insults) and others will clap (or tell you nice things), but you should have a thick skin because you'll need it. people don't pull punches around here. it's the real world, and it's full of elitist assholes that will tell you what's good and what's not, and it's got your share of people that will only say nice things about everyone, and there's probably tons more people (the silent majority) that are smart and just don't say anything and stay out of it all.

just because one person here thinks your song sucks, doesn't mean it does. just because one person here thinks you should wait a year to submit, or practice more, or question your motivation, doesn't mean you shouldn't submit, cause that would mean you're a pussy. and because there's really nothing at stake here but pride and a worthless title, the biggest reason you should participate is because it is fun. but keep in mind if it comes across as more fun for you than for us to listen to, you'll definitely hear about it. probably from me even.

but it should be about fun. if you're proud enough to face the inevitable onslaught of bad comments you'll get, that should be enough of a personal signal to noise filter.

[Leaf]

Who writes songs with the attitude "golly, I've written 100 songs AND NOW I'm good?"

That kinda talk can land a boy in a heap of debate. I foresee 5... no, wait, 6 pages of discussion.

I suppose so... but no debate will change any of said participants opinions actually... but as we know, Leaf is gonna express his when he feels it.

I should clarify that I don't know if this is Erik's opinion... or anyone's for that matter, but it's certainly the opinion I infer..


Actually, the opinon I infer is "this is a contest, and I'm gonna say stuff to scare you away so I have a better chance of winning" which is funny, cause no one's actually said that!


Must be my hockey side coming out.

[Bjam]

=but keep in mind if it comes across as more fun for you than for us to listen to, you'll definitely hear about it. probably from me even.

but it should be about fun. if you're proud enough to face the inevitable onslaught of bad comments you'll get, that should be enough of a personal signal to noise filter.

see: The Phunt guys. Their music is an acquired taste, but they kept submitting even after people said "This sucks". They're obviously having fun with it, so hey, woo for them.