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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:50 am
by glennny
Anti-M- I like this a lot! It’s all about the vocal delivery. The 2 voices compliment each other very well. I wish the drums were louder. I wish the arpeggio guitar was a lot louder. This could rock a lot harder with a live band. Excellent writing!

B. Ellison- Sounds like Pedro the Lion hanging out at the Folk Music Center. That’s great. I enjoy this very much. I think maybe the piano arpeggio would’ve been stronger if it came in later, I think throughout like it is gives a little disservice, a minor quibble. Nice vocals. Good job!

Billy’s Little Trip- Yes! Back to rockin riffs! Still some production issues I’m sure you’re awa
re of. I’m still dying to hear some real drums on your stuff. Nice guitar tone on the solo. Those vocals are rockin too.

Caravan Ray- This is pretty cool. I kept expecting it to build into something huge. It’s very good snooping music, especially for Axel Foley investing a crime at the Playboy mansion. I think the vocals are a little low in the mix.

Cynthiasize&EclecticSp00ns featuring BLT- I dig this. The BLT guitar really adds something I’ve always wanted to hear with your stuff. This is a little long. I like the Cynthia melody.

Disciples of Beer- Hard to dig this with the mix they way it is. It’s kinda funny I guess. I really hate direct electric. Sounds like there’s a band tracking and we’re on the outside of their headphones and the tambourine is on the other side of the studio.

Eight Legged Oedipus- Nice vocals! Nice mood. Ooooh great chord change!!! Great GnG! My favorite so far! Ending is a little anti-climactic, loved the 1st 3 minutes, still excellent!

Justin Case- I was pretty bored with this, but my wife was listening and yelling “I love this”. I then figured out she was listening to the lyrics. It’s really hard to grab me into paying attention to the lyrics of a song I’m usually disappointed. This song is really good due to the lyrics. I guess that’s the whole idea of folk.

King Arthur- Well played, well sung, not my genre. This is pretty cheesy, it’s best when I don’t listen to lyrics. Nice playing!

Klownhole- Some very metaltastic ideas. I wish there was more groove to properly bang my head too. You guys make a good big noise. Not my favorite Klownhole, but it’s alright.

Master Hyde- It’s all about the bass line . Very groovy. I’m not drawn into the lyrics, bu they pass. Pretty cool groovy unassuming tune.

MC Eric B- Nothing to grab on to and dig here.

Mike Lamb- Bass drum drags a little at points, a little distracting. The sparse lead guitar (clean tone) is beautiful! Very Wicked Game. I don’t like the fuzz tone electric solo. Not a bad song, like to hear a different drum track over it.

Minty Handy- That’s it! Minty Handy is becoming another favorite. Man, you are the hook master. I desperately need lessons in writing a hook. This is great, possible vote. This reminds me of Hot Child in the City. Favorite so far. Fantastic vocals, I’m keeping this one.

Nocturnal Brothers- Yuck. Sloppy playing, tedious riffs. Off drums. I really only like the screaming vocals.

Paco Del Stinko- Paco Rules! Music is flawless and tasty, inventive and clever! Probable vote. Just wonderful man! Guitar solos and licks put this one over the top. I always like the Paco tunes and this is one of the better ones for me also.

Ross Durand- Beautiful bear claw! Excellent singing! The 3 part vocals are by far the best part. Not really into the lyrics , but they’re fine.

Steve Durand- Smokin! Electric piano is perfect! Horns are great as usual. This is a contender. No complaints. Great job!

Steve Hand Puppet- Great song stuck in poor production. The chorus is catchy and not what I expected, which is cool. Why the fake ending? I would’ve been just as happy ending there. Nice vocals and melody, poor production, I think you admitted as much in the pre-fight thread.

Suck Weasel- Pretty cool. Sounds like Son of Paco Del Stinko. Not a bad song just very normal.

Thanks for the Frisbee- I love all the feel changes of this. Another excellent piece of songwriting. I’d demand you re-record some of those pitchy lines were I to work with you on this one. Just awesome writing! Love to hear the full band treatment on this one as well!

Tiny Robots- Sell this to the Cardigans! They need a hit. Best production, the organ is the best part. Maybe the tight as Hell drums are the best part, um maybe the sultry vocals are the best part, No wait it’s the sweet tasty guitar solo. Keeper, contender, possible vote, probable winner.

Wages- Sometimes it just sounds like you’re Adam Sandler mocking grunge music. The melody seems very unsure. You have a big strong beast of a voice that needs taming. Not really into this song.

The Older Brothers- This is Marty and myself. I’m really surprised we’re the only ones (as far as I can tell) who went with the Alfred and Georgia story that “A Woman on Paper” came from. Maybe we’re lame for taking the obvious route. Lyrics are never our strong suit. So I’m responsible for the weird music. I really like some of the music a lot. We had a hard time finding a catchy hook for this, we never really did. Probably mostly because of the melodic corner we were painted into due to my oh so clever jazz chords. This was very very fun to make. With all the amazing stuff in this fight I won’t be surprised with a goose egg.

OK so the winners:

Minty Handy, Paco del Stinko, Steve Durand, and Tiny Robots

I have to vote for Paco, although he just barely edges over Minty Handy.

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:11 pm
by Billy's Little Trip
glennny wrote: Billy’s Little Trip- Yes! Back to rockin riffs! Still some production issues I’m sure you’re awa
re of. I’m still dying to hear some real drums on your stuff. Nice guitar tone on the solo. Those vocals are rockin too.
Thanks Glenny, Yeah, I'm awa re of it.:mrgreen:
I did feel a sense of dramatic importance as I was putting this song together, but my inability to record and produce, pretty much let the song down. It's a strange feeling to know I'm pouring my heart into something, then I'm letting the song down, myself, and others listening by a bad mix and production. I think that's why I'm so determined to become a good sound guy. At this point, I'm willing to do whatever it takes.....well, almost anything, just not that. :?
The next step is to learn how to mic up Gary's kit in a timely manner so we can get his drums recorded.

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:10 am
by Caravan Ray
In order of merit:


Possible Votes:

1. Nocturnal Brothers - This is completely awesome!

1. King Arthur - This is wonderful. The simple chorus is just perfect. Great use of the title - this song makes perfect sense. You should be at Tamworth this weekend. This is "Golden Guitar" material.

1. Just in Case - Hey ! - it's the Mamas & the Papas! No - that's unfair, the M's&P's were stupid old hippies - whereas I really like this. The unison vocals are great. I love the way the melody occaisionaly wanders off where you don't expect it to go

1. Steve Durand - Another great use of the title - really well written song. Horns great as usual - but your vocals really stand out here. Great work.


I also really liked:

5. Cynthia Size and the Eclectic Spoons: Took me a while to work out this was a fake voice! This work's beautifully. The guitar and voice together sound great. Love the rhythm of the voice. Easily the best Spoon effort I've heard.

6. Anti-M: Great vocals - and well put-together song. Love the change in rhythms. Very professional sounding.

7. Billy's Little Trip: Love the shouty call-response type vocals. This is great - rocks along nicely. One suggestion - I feel that the speed up chorus bit needs some backing vox - maybe just "aaaahhs" or something. That's where the mosh-pit will go off - and the drunks who don't know the words will need something to sing along to at that point.

8. Minty Handy: Great pop song, well excecuted. Lead vox are a bit muffled - should be cleaner - but that is a minor quibble. Job well done

9. B. Ellison: Nice work. Good vocals. Piano accordian sounds a little cliched - but I'll let it pass. Good job - very pleasant song.

10. Steve Hand Puppet and His Poorly Considered Solo Effort: Good song - nice groove. Mix all sounds a bit messy though unfortunately


I was fairly indifferent to:

11. Eight Legged Oedipus: I like the lyrics a lot, but the delivery reminded me too much of Randy Newman. I really hate Randy Newman.

12. Tiny Robots: Very well done - but just not my cup of tea

13. Paco Del Stinko: The music sounds like The Bats (from Dunedin, NZ). I dunno - it has the unmistakable "stinky" sound - but this just didn't grab me at all

14. Suckweasel: Good song. Starts off great, I'm really loving it - but over the course of the song the lead vocals seem to disintergrate. The voice is good - but it just loses the plot here and there

15. Ross Durand: Another worthy effort that I'm just not getting into

16. thanks for the frisbee: Not up to the normal TFTF standard I feel. Listenable but not re-listenable.

17. Klownhole: Not bad - but not really doing anything for me

18. MC Eric B: I like the backing stuff - and there are some good lines - but overall, not really enough to keep my interest


I didn't like:

19. Masterhyde: You do what you do very well - but I don't like it. I gather the youngsters find this sort of thing quite "groovy" - but I find it as boring as bat shit.

20. Wages: Seems a bit underdone. Vocals dodgy - seem to be overdoing it a bit.

21. Mike Lamb: Some of these vocals are pretty ordinary - some of those long "youuuuuu"s are not pretty. And the lyrics are making me feel quite nauseous. I feel relieved when the sheila dies.

22. The Disciples Of Beer: Is this Hillbilly? I've heard better from you. This is just sloppy. The song is OK, but...

23. The Older Brothers: I can't really find anything of merit in this.

Caravan Ray: The great thing about these songs coming up so late was that I'd virtually forgotten about this one. I got a great "WTF is this shit?!?" feeling when I heard it again! And no, I don't know what a "Dutchman's Bicycle" is either, but I am guessing it may involve gouda cheese, and possibly a dyke.


Overall - a good fight. Looks like the old diggers, King Arthur and Steve Durand may have the edge over the youngsters this week - though I am still having trouble going past Justic Case and the Nocturnal Bros

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:28 am
by Billy's Little Trip
Caravan Ray wrote: 7. Billy's Little Trip: Love the shouty call-response type vocals. This is great - rocks along nicely. One suggestion - I feel that the speed up chorus bit needs some backing vox - maybe just "aaaahhs" or something. That's where the mosh-pit will go off - and the drunks who don't know the words will need something to sing along to at that point.
Call and Response? So there's a proper name for that? HEY PACO, you're not a schizo, there's a name for it! :mrgreen:
I know what you mean about the backing vox, I heard it too after I took a good listen with fresh ears "after" it was submitted. I made sure to add backing vox in my Pink Ribbon entry to give the drunks something to sing along to, lol. I think I do my best thinking when I'm driving and listening, so I need to start making that part of my final listen before my songs are submitted so I can make any final tweaks.
Thanks Ray

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:47 am
by Paco Del Stinko
Gotta re-warm my review trigger.

Anti-M - I like the progressions and melodies. The rhythm tracks could use more dynamics, but I like the percolating feel to them. The song is nice and leaves me wanting more. Just a couple of breaths in there to flesh it out, perhaps.

B.Ellison - The melody is nice, if a bit repetitive. Not that it has to do more, but a variation here and there might be nice. The heady layers work for the most part, I wonder if it all shouldn't be even more lush to push it all the way into Cloudsville.

Billy's Little Trip - I understand where other reviewers get their Nirvana-isms from, but I'm sure it's not deliberate. The song is fine but almost feels as though you were marking time 'til it was done in parts. The drum programming you do is very good at replicating a real drummers style, it's just that several flams in a row sound fake-ish. I like this, but don't feel it maintains the passion level all the way through.

Caravan Ray - This turned darker than what I thought it would. I like synth sounds that sound synthy, and they work well here. Well layered and atmospheric, I was waiting for it to take off yet enjoyed the restraint. Good one.

Cynthia, @Eclectic and BLT. - Fresh from the Attack Of The Cyborgs movie, this militaristic march builds good tension. I like the chorus and its temporary release. Colorful, the guitar and its chickas soften many an edge. Lopping a small chunk off would work well for the single version.

Disciples Of Beer - Vocals sound improvised at times, and this couldn't have been done in many takes as it has a real improv type feel. The progression works well for a while and furhter developement wouldn't hurt. Some good ideas for lyrics, too, if spiffed up a bit,

Eight Legged Oedipus - Nice variations and plays on itself. This seems like it was done on the spot feel-wise, but is too developed to have been. I enjoy the voice and never do it quite the same way twice approach to it all. I waited at wait...wait...

Just In Case - I like this. I think I would have preferred the vocal on the verses not doubled - the voices that join in sound so good when they do. Good dark tone for most of the song works well. Good one.

King Arthur - So glad that you are back in the fights. While this has the KA sound, I think it's looser, in a good way, than others of yours. Excellent back vocals. If I had to say that this sounded like someone else I would say the first that came to mind was Los Lobos. Easy to take and well done.

Klownhole - I am always glad when Klownhole fights. Tight and heavy, the vocals alternate between sounding a bit read off the paper to properly terrifying. Good riffs and playing by all, the production is excellent also. Thank you.

Masterhyde - Good bass line. Your voice is very pleasant and easy to listen to, I like the light smoky timbre it has. A little more rhythmic variety in its delivery might take a firmer grip of one's attention, but the supporting tracks help keep it smooth.

MC Eric B - All the pauses are on the same beat. The supporting tracks sound fine, if less than thrilling. The vocals, however, don't pack a punch. The nerdy voice is fine but lacking some I dunno, verve or something. I'd like to hear twice as many words being fired off at double time tempo over the same rhtyhm.

Mike Lamb - Your voice sounds like Mr. Lostman, somewhat, although unsteady at times it's pleasant. I like the moody progression, esp. after it goes around once, the dryness of the stiff beat but wonder about the mix pan/level. Expressive leads are well placed.

Minty Handy - The no-crap arrangement only enhances this tasty slice o' hooky fun. This makes the sun come out and the colors start streaming, all with a few notes. It feels a little short, and a well done minute someday might not hurt this ones charm, but it's very enjoyable and fun as is.

Nocturnal Brothers - I like the gonzo attack, but some of it feels forced and not quite into the light. Hey, that's not always easy. The cold electric air about it is very stong though, and a moody 'in a cave' piece could be down-right chilling.

Older Brothers - It's been a while since the OP into the PDS. The spacey progression and into orbit change are great, I like the beat early on best. Some of the changes feel a bit racy coming right into each other so quickly. The guitars are excellent, the approach being as good as tone. The vocal ideas are better then the delivery, but if anyone's on your side in that department...

Paco - My first fight at the start of a year, I find the melody either lacking and/or typical of me. Good warm up.

Ross Durand - Very nice. If it were 100% steady, it might not be as human. Nice easy pattern well played supporting a fine melody and solid lyrics. A fine performance delivers this nicely. Good one.

Steve Durand - Excellent. I enjoy this feel very much. The arrangement is well done, and the stereo experience in the middle is fun. A more memorable vocal line at the very end might help nail it into your skull, but the melodies are nice. I think that your voice works better up in this range.

Steve Handpuppet And Effort - I like the verse parts although the beat almost feels like it's doing too much. The panning part might've been better left unpanned, but had some nice ideas. It is indeed an effort and I wouldn't call it a failure.

Suckweasel - Good and fun. A little scruff never hurt anyone when it was as well intentioned as this. I like the fade here, which is not always welcome. What else ya got?

Thanks For The Frisbee - I like this one. I think it sounds like you, but maybe going a little further out. It's loose, but the emotion translates well. The layers are just right too. Good one, even better with a bit of spiff applied.

Tiny Robots - Super. Sunny day pleasantry well presented. The melodies are nice and the singing and playing are all around excellent. It's full and clear with the lead guitar biting a bit sound wise at times. Very nice.

Wages - Good song that gets a bit scruffy at times. I like the arrangement and those drums work in some parts better than others. The vocals too: some parts have great feel, some are too loose. It's all a question of time, I think, as this is good but needs to be hammered in tighter.

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:05 am
by king_arthur
Notes from the old guy. "Maybe Keepers" songs got a second listen, and those with an asterisk got promoted into the keepers... comments are what I'd do differently if this was my song; your mileage may vary.

NON-KEEPERS:

B. Ellison: I think I'd like this if the rhythms were tighter;
it just feels like stuff is happening before and after the
beats unintentionally...

Disciples: I might enjoy a better production of this, but
you're up against a lot of much better performed stuff...

Klownhole: great sound, if I was into this sort of stuff
I'd probably love it...

MC Eric B: for me to get into this sort of thing, it needs
to be a little further up the cleverness scale... this is
a little too regular in structure, A/A rhyme scheme over and
over...

Nocturnal Brothers: not my thing

Older Brothers: I don't mind drum machines, but I don't care
for drum programs where the drum rolls are too fast for
someone to actually play. There might be a good song hiding
in here somewhere, but it's too disorganized for my tastes...

Steve Hand Puppet: tuning and rhythmic stuff is a little too
sloppy for my tastes...

Thanks for the Frisbee: vocal is just enough out of tune at
the start of the song that I'm gonna let the rest of it pass...

MAYBE KEEPERS:

Anti-M: I'm not sure why I'm having such a hard time hearing
the lyrics; it sounds like it's doubled and maybe that's making
it hard to hear... I don't care for the sound of the drums; I'm
guessing it's real drums recorded in a less than stellar way???
I like the little mariba sounds that come in on the chorus.

Billy's Little Trip: maybe my ears are screwed up today???
Again, the vocals just arent' getting to my brain. The intro
makes me think it's gonna be that Beatles' song so when the
vocals come in, I wind up disappointed that it's not...

* Eight Legged Oedipus: noticeable hiss over the whole thing,
enough that it interferes with me hearing the song. It sounded
better when I peaked the 3k-6k and then chopped off everything
from 12k up... we'll make it a keeper because I like the
song...

Justin Case: the lead vocalist seems to be able to hit the
notes, so why doubling the vocal? I think I'd connect with
the song better with a single vocal track... maybe try to
make the guitar sound "bigger", double it and hard pan and
give it some bottom end.

* Masterhyde: I could hear the hiss on the vocal track come
in two or three seconds before the vocal started... can you
mute that in the mix? Once the vocal is going, the hiss
was lost in the mix, but it was pretty obvious at the start.
Like the way the organ sound is used to provide some dynamic
variation, and the fact that the music isn't just a four-bar
loop over and over.

Mike Lamb: a little more variation in the chord pattern
would appeal to me. Think about how you're singing the lines:
"I was too... scared to run" - that phrasing kinda deemphasizes
the word "scared" which is what the line is about. The vocal
riffery going into the chorus seems a little beyond the singer
at times, at "I'm in love with you." Wish the lead guitar was
a little closer to in tune with the rhythm guitar. Yeah, I
think if you'd sung this to emphasize the important words in
each line, it might have made keeper status. Pull me in,
make me listen to the story.

Ross Durand: hiss on that guitar track is audible throughout
the song... might also work on not popping in the vocal mic.
Vocal wobbliness probably keeps this one out of the final
"keepers" list.

Suckweasel: performance is grating on me a little bit, but I
like the song overall... some of the vocal lines just don't
get close enough to the notes to work. I'd like to hear
some chords in the chorus that weren't in the verse, take
me somewhere new and interesting musically...

Tiny Robots: the arrangement seems like it overwhelms the
vocal... wish the song had more dynamic variation, it gets
loud in the first few seconds and just stays there the rest
of the way through... a little breakdown at 2:17, but I wish
the accompaniment varied more underneath the vocal bits. Did
somebody forget to mute the click on the intro to the song?

Wages: You might try splitting the guitars out wider so that
the vocal actually sticks out more. When the guitars are
right there in the soundspace with the vocal, they kinda remind
us how out of tune the vocal is at times. When you do nail the
notes, I like your voice. Lead guitar break about 2:00 is just
all wrong... it sounds like the click stuff at the start isn't
even in steady rhythm...

KEEPERS:

Caravan Ray: I'm having to listen really close to follow
the lyric, which I wouldn't do for a less respected
artist :-) Some of the phrasing of the verse lyrics seemed
like it could've been more intentional about getting the
message across - see comments to Mike Lamb above.

Cynthia Size et al: okay, the synthvocs grabbed me and
everything else is sufficiently in tune and on beat that
I'd listen to this again...

Minty Handy: like the way the uke and the distorted guitar
go together. Maybe more reverb on the guitar, the whole
thing feels like it's in need of a little more lower-mids
or something.

Paco del Stinko: fun, at times it felt a little too ragged
for me, but it always kept pulling me back in. I became a
fan during the megafight, so I'm willing to accept something
a bit more ragged from you than I might from somebody I
don't know...

Steve Durand: okay, you grabbed me with the sax sound... is
this gonna be an instrumental? No, hooray! The vocal sounds
like it was done in a whole separate soundspace than the rest
of the song... I mean, I know, we all multitrack, but I wish
the vocal sounded like everybody was in the same studio at the
same time. Very nice; I'm a fan of shorter song intros for
songfight songs, but you kept my attention 'til the vocal
came in.

Charles (KA)

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:40 pm
by roymond
So far, Anti-M and her Minty Hand Puppets are fighting for my vote. The Durands all brought some fine noise as did Tiny Eight Legged Caravans. I see reviews are being extended so I'll try and get more specific, but these were fun flying friends.

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:58 pm
by Thanks For The Frisbee
king_arthur wrote:)Thanks for the Frisbee: vocal is just enough out of tune at
the start of the song that I'm gonna let the rest of it pass...
its okay. i for some reason really liked this song before i entered it. i used to get better reviews for much worse songs IMO. have i topped out or become so predictable that i suck? i know that when i collab my songs turn out awesome because of the instrumentation added by the fellow collaborator, usually glennny, one time melvin, and one time blake walker, but i would like to turn out some well recieved solo tracks once in a while. thats the kind of advice i need, anyone?

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:49 pm
by wages
Thanks For The Frisbee wrote:
king_arthur wrote:)Thanks for the Frisbee: vocal is just enough out of tune at
the start of the song that I'm gonna let the rest of it pass...
its okay. i for some reason really liked this song before i entered it. i used to get better reviews for much worse songs IMO. have i topped out or become so predictable that i suck? i know that when i collab my songs turn out awesome because of the instrumentation added by the fellow collaborator, usually glennny, one time melvin, and one time blake walker, but i would like to turn out some well recieved solo tracks once in a while. thats the kind of advice i need, anyone?
I think the standard acoustic guitar rhythms make a lot of people not so interested. I think your Woman on Paper was pretty good and I've like a good percentage of your tunes. While your It Belongs To Me didn't catch me so well. Probably because IBTM was too "like everything else" minus the instrumentation. That's the reason why I've been working on drums for my songs as well as trying to experiment with different guitar rhythms, though I haven't reached near the success I need to be at.

Try slightly more intricate guitar parts (adding fills). Also, try to make well defined parts that are easily distinguishable. I really don't know how much advice I could offer; I'm still trying to follow my own advice!

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:14 pm
by Mike Lamb
Thanks For The Frisbee wrote:but i would like to turn out some well recieved solo tracks once in a while. thats the kind of advice i need, anyone?
I'm not sure what you were looking for when you made this statement, but I'll take it as license to explain my review in more depth, in the hopes that it will provide the type of advice you're looking for. :)

I'll start out by saying that I really liked your song overall. This is the direction that I'd like to take my songs, rhythmically and melodically, I'm just not as good at it as you are.

One of the things that I noticed first was how the lead and double/harmony vocal and the electric guitar part interwove. There are a few notes where your lead, the harmony and the electric combine rather dissonantly, 0:28-0:29 being one of these examples. This is what I was referring to when I said "the harmonies are good, but I think they are conflicting pitchwise with the lead guitar sometimes." There's tons of great harmony parts in the song, but in this case eliminating or greatly simplifying them in some places might help provide an overall cleaner sound.

Another thing I noticed was that both voices and both guitars occupy essentially the same frequency space, and there's really nothing going on in the low end. I played around with my EQ to try and bring the bass out more, but I couldn't really find much. I think even a really simple electric bass line would have filled this out a ton, then you could have EQed the acoustic more into the mids, left the electric up in the highs and let the bass guitar carry the lows, with your vocals in the middle of the pan. Of course, there are a few things in the song that sound like they might have been a bass, but maybe just mixed way too low?

Oh also, one of the things I greatly enjoyed about your song was that it carried rhythmically without drums. I input all my drums on a midi keyboard, and it sucks. I'm getting better at it, but I still prefer songs sans-drum when it fits (a la some of Simon & Garfunkle's best stuff.)

I hope this is somewhat helpful for you. You've heard my songs, so take this all with a HUGE grain of salt! :-)

If you happen to have this multitracked in some way that you could (or would) ship me the files, I'd really like to take a stab at remixing it and adding some bass. Shoot me a PM if you're interested.

Take care,
Mike Lamb

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:14 pm
by Thanks For The Frisbee
thank you so much guys, i really needed this advice. i wasnt mad about reviews or anything i just need help adjusting my songs in the way i need to. thanks, this was exactly what i needed :D

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:49 pm
by Billy's Little Trip
Thanks For The Frisbee wrote:i for some reason really liked this song before i entered it. i used to get better reviews for much worse songs IMO.
That's the funny thing about writing music. Something that can mean so much to you can go right past everyone else and vice versa. I was told years ago, that if I want to be heard, I have to beat them in the face. Then once you have their attention, make your point. Of course I was in punk rock environment at that time, but I think the same rule applies, only with different degrees of face beating. :wink:
From a musician stand point, your Woman on Paper entry inspired me to get back to where I come from musically. It doesn't mean I'll enter acoustic songs, but it made me pick up my guitar and play for myself and my own enjoyment, not worried if anyone else is interested. That's what your song did for me.....for what it's worth.

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:03 am
by Thanks For The Frisbee
Thanks BLT.
you saying something like that is worth a lot.

reviews

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:28 am
by Ross
So I’m going to do sequential reviews – the first song automatically gets a 5 out of ten and I’ll go from there. This felt like not an especially strong fight to me – some strong performances and/or production, but none of the songs really jumped out of their own accord. The title perhaps? Who knows. Anyway, it’s late [sorry for any typos] and here they are.

B. Ellison – nice voice in this texture, I like the lyric approach right away. Very pretty. Reminds me of Jude. I want something else to shift in order to sustain the length. – 5

Cynthia etc.. – neat mix of sounds.this pretty interesting sonically – but the song itself isn’y doing all that much. A bit long for what it is, I think. – 4

TR – the voice almost blends in too much – the words aren’t popping out. Something about the arrangement or mix feels sort of busy and little distracting. Sounds great, but again the song isn’t sucking me in (woman on paper v. paper thin?) Nice middle instrumental part.- 4.5

Wages – wow – not up to you usual – it almost sounds like you’re singing in a different key than the rest of the song. Really getting in the way of me trying ot hear the song. –2

KA – Sounds solid as you always do, but the song just kinda bops along. The third one where I’m going to say that the song isn’treally interesting me. Good production and playing as always – 4

Billy, etcc. Again great sounds. Interesting changes and all, I saw where there was some nirvana comments on the boards, It’s a lot more htan the drums for sure, I’m not going to get into it here, but PM me is you want me to ramble on it. Again, the song, is eh. Reminds me of the theme of that old Joni Mitchell song “We don’t need no piece of paper from the city hall…” - 4.

Eight legged… – something here feels sort of white album to me…can’t put my finger on it. I think it’s the instrumentation, acoustic and bass. The song is losing me a little on first listen ,but it intrigues me enough to fell like a second is warranted. Thanks for an interesting listen, but I think you’re still just under B. - 4.75

Oi, oi,oi – (I know that shaker loop) Ok, a bit long. Nicely produced. The list of what dirty girls do just doesn’t suck me in either (no pun intended, or was it?) perhaps I’m just in a mood tonight. – 3

TFTF – Pretty good song. It does sound at times liket he lyrics and music are just wandering along. I like the ambiguous rhythms in the “pre-chorus.” Ok – 4

Mike Lamb – Lyrics seem a bit stilted right away, for some reason. Yeah, this kind of goes in one ear and out the other. Sounds heartfelt, but not projecting. Needs more poetry perhaps? - 3

Klownehole – Minus the vocals this is F-in rockin. With the vocals, it’s Klownehole F-in rockin I have no iodea what this song is about.– 2.5

Steve – nice rhoads (or is that guitar with a Leslie speaker?) right off the bat – did you mic yours or is this something else? Good words and the music suits it. Good spin on the concept. Interesting contrast to Arthur’s tune. Good arrangement as always. I’ll have to go back to B. To see what I like better – 5 or so

Nocturnal Brothers – your count-off turned me off right away. Didn’t listen all the way through –1

Minty – Oh, the distorted ukelele. Why not just use a guitar? Genuinely curious. Tuneful as always. I expected more songs with this theme. Pretty well done for the concept. Is she a man? Is she ugly? Not celar? – 4

Anti- M – My overwhelming rection is just that it sounds like you listen to Kate Bush and Tori amos. The song is so veiled inthis mix it is hard for me to find. Some very interesting sounds, but the song is not coming through for me. – 3

Disciples of Beer – Much too long for what it is. But given what it is, much more clever lyrically than I was expecting at the beginning. A more concise presentation would have brought out some pretty clever lyrical aspects of the song. Instead, it comes off like you thought it was an exercise in guitar scales. – 4

Older Brothers – Ok, so I can hear that you researched the source of the title. This feels a bit too literal given that. Some great bass playing here. Most of the vocals are a barrier. Neat synth pad, too. The whole package doesn’t convince me that this was worth writing a song about. “Let’s get down?” – 2.5

Paco – Great sounding and playing as always – again, I have no idea what this song is really about? Neandertal? The mitochondrial eve? I apparently don’t get it. – 4

Suckweasel – I like this one – sort of late 50s/early 60s. well put together. This one I get. Another in my top tier, which so far seems to mean you get a 5.

MC Eric B – Ok, you know, after last week I didn’t expect to like this, but it’s a fun take. I wish it wasn’t rap or that your accompaniment was more interesting – 4

Masterhyde – Ok. Seem slike the a lot of the same rhythms you’ve used in the past as far as the cadence of your vocals. – 3.5

Steve puppet… - really forced vocal rhythms – hooky chorus again. I wish I was better at that. Interesting take. Ok – 4

Just in case – another one I sort of don’t get. Ok – hooky chorus, catchy arrangement. – 3

So I guess I started with what I would say is a good one, apparently this was on a scale of 1-5 :-)

My tops are apparently B. Ellison, Steve Durand, and suckweasel. Oh…and I like my song.

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:33 am
by king_arthur
Frisbee -

I listened to your song again, and I think I was tougher on it than it deserved... for what it's worth, I think the instrumental part of the song is well done; there were just a couple places in the vocal near the start where it sounded like you were aiming for a note and missed... I think the doubled vocals may have made it sound worse than it really was, because one of them made the note and the other didn't. I'm becoming less and less of a fan of doubled vocal tracks...

The other observation I'd have is that... it sounds like there is a fairly specific story line going on in the song, but when I get to the end of just listening to it, I'm going, "hmm, wonder what that was about" (the same thing happens to me on a lot of Bjam's songs). For me, I think the song would have been stronger (and I'd have been more willing to overlook a couple vocal glitches) if the lyric had started out more blatantly clear... in those first few lines, let me know exactly what the story is, and then you can go impressionist for the rest of the lyric and I'll have something to hang all the imagery on.

Of course, if I listened to the song a few more times, I might change my mind on that, too :-) I had about an hour and a half to do reviews this week, so it was all about first impressions, and since I reviewed in alpha order, by the time I got to yours, I had already heard a lot of songs.

Anyway... I do think I was too tough on your song first time around, but at least if it led to you getting some extra input from a bunch of people...

Charles (KA)

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:15 am
by Thanks For The Frisbee
Thanks KA,
this fight has been espescially eye opening as far as what changes i need to make to produce a better finished product. i guess i tend to rush my recordings and have never really given much thought to being off key.
lyrically i can be vague and confusing, i think i could round it off if i shoved another verse in there at the end or changed the words in one of the chorus parts to explain...i dont know...it'll take time. i really appreciate you taking the time to give such extensive feedback.
thank you, i really am going to try to iron out these issues.

fris

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:37 am
by king_arthur
Thanks For The Frisbee wrote:lyrically i can be vague and confusing, i think i could round it off if i shoved another verse in there at the end or changed the words in one of the chorus parts to explain...
Just to repeat what I was trying to get across: my sense is that there just needed to be something a little more straightforward at the start of the song, something that would tell me, the first time I hear it, "here's what this song is about." And then you can be vague, metaphorical, whatever you want to call it, in the rest of the song, and I'll figure out how everything fits into place. A song is something that is experienced in real time, start to finish, and adding another verse at the end doesn't do much for the listener who moves on to the next song after 30 seconds, and, sadly, that's kinda the reality of it. And you don't even have to spill the beans of where the song is going in that first 30 seconds, you just need to give me something up front that will make me want to stick around for the rest of the song.

That is, of course, exactly the sort of rule that's made to be broken, but in this particular case, I think it would have made it more likely for me to like this particular song.

The same way, that first few seconds of introduction, first few seconds of singing - get that right and the listener will forgive some misses later on. I tend to re-do the intro bars to a song over and over until they're right, even if I allow some sloppiness through later in the song.

Charles (KA)

Re: reviews

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:14 pm
by Billy's Little Trip
rdurand wrote: Billy, etcc. Again great sounds. Interesting changes and all, I saw where there was some nirvana comments on the boards, It’s a lot more htan the drums for sure, I’m not going to get into it here, but PM me is you want me to ramble on it. Again, the song, is eh. Reminds me of the theme of that old Joni Mitchell song “We don’t need no piece of paper from the city hall…” - 4.
Not being familiar with Joni Mitchell, other than that parking lot song, I D/L'd it. It's called "my man" after not finding it under the title you gave, lol. At first I couldn't figure out what the heck you were referring to, because I listen to instruments and melody when I listen to music. I'm one of those guys that never know what the lyrics are in a song until I hear it numerous times, and even then I'm like those guys on the cell phone commercial, "Stop The Cat Box, Stop The Cat Box".
I listened to the song several times. Then I heard it, you meant the concept of the song. Two people truly in love don't need a piece of paper to confirm what's in their hearts. Mine was more along the lines of, it's illegal to have sex with an underage girl even though you're truly in love, but yeah, pretty much the same concept, lol.

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:32 pm
by glennny
Billy,

It's "My Old Man" off of her best album called "Blue", I think it's track #2.

Awesome album!

glennny

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:37 pm
by Billy's Little Trip
Ooops, correction noted. And yes, I will say after playing that song a few times, it really is a great song and a trademark voice for sure.

Re: reviews

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:01 pm
by Ross
Billy's Little Trip wrote:
rdurand wrote: Billy, etcc. Again great sounds. Interesting changes and all, I saw where there was some nirvana comments on the boards, It’s a lot more htan the drums for sure, I’m not going to get into it here, but PM me is you want me to ramble on it. Again, the song, is eh. Reminds me of the theme of that old Joni Mitchell song “We don’t need no piece of paper from the city hall…” - 4.
Not being familiar with Joni Mitchell, other than that parking lot song, I D/L'd it. It's called "my man" after not finding it under the title you gave, lol. At first I couldn't figure out what the heck you were referring to, because I listen to instruments and melody when I listen to music. I'm one of those guys that never know what the lyrics are in a song until I hear it numerous times, and even then I'm like those guys on the cell phone commercial, "Stop The Cat Box, Stop The Cat Box".
I listened to the song several times. Then I heard it, you meant the concept of the song. Two people truly in love don't need a piece of paper to confirm what's in their hearts. Mine was more along the lines of, it's illegal to have sex with an underage girl even though you're truly in love, but yeah, pretty much the same concept, lol.
Yes, well I guess I didn't listen too close to all the words(some are a bit muddled. Mainly I was hearing the "Why should we have to explain our love," part which reminded me of the quote I put in my post, which I knew to be a quote, and not the title ;-) Glad you found the song. Blue is one of my favorite records!!

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:09 pm
by Billy's Little Trip
I always put my lyrics for every song in the "Ye Olde Lyric" archive because I'm hard to understand.