The Song Fight Bulletin Board

I don't think I've ever seen a review / reaction to all the revies posted in one shot, but I'd dig reading yours...

Anyhoo...

This is probably long-winded and extraneous, out-of-this-forum ettiquetteand everything, BUT I'D love to see these stats from you all (especially the gear / technique). I dig alot of the stuff I've heard and would like to learn a coupla things from your processes....

Also, thought I'd take a minute, and respond to all the REALLY CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM here (if anyone even cares) 'cuz I've not seen this done yet here. And, It's not from an ego standpoint, just that you all took the time to lemmeknow what you think, and I want you all to know how I internalized it. (You guys all rock, group hug ). AND, in the parts I'm saying what I did, I'm only sharing in case you dig what you heard, not because I know anything. If you know any set-ups / settings you'd like to share, lemmeknow b/c I'm still in the weeds somewhat.

I'm going to remix the song, taking these critiscisms into account, and post a link to this thread (or email, hit me at rock_turnip@hotmail.com). It's awesome to have such an amazing place to air, and I deeply appreciate you all...

Here's my gear, I'd be really interested in knowing what you all used:

Gear used:

- Samick Acoustic
- Roomate
- Yamaha Acoustic
- Not sure of the sax
- Not sure of the flute
- Friends
- $50 Casio as a MIDI controller
- Shure SM57
- Radio Shack SM58 knock-off (surprisingly, an OK mic)
- AKG C3000B
- ART 1 channel mic preamp (with the spinny dealie for voicing, not sure of model number)
- DBX 266 Compressor
- Alesis $160 drum machine
- Echo Mia MIDI sound card
- Mac AGP G4, 500mhz, 1 gig ram
- Cubase
- Reason 2.5
- Melodyne
- Bias Deck (because my cubase doesn't work with MIA, I need to bring it into deck and sync up by eye in cubase)
- Bias Peak for mastering
- iTunes for MP3 conversion

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Interactive Electric Nipple: That was really cool. It might even vote for it if this was album fight.. heh. Tooo looong. Everything about it otherwise is great. Grade A

----- Yes, waaaaaaay too long. Just had my extremely creative 14 year old sister write down track times and what can be cut, I'll post the remix to this forum when it's done. I had heard it millions of times in it's long form when I started trimmin', and any trimmin' sounded weird because the song had worn ruts in my ears (my own hurdle in the 1-week format)
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Interactive electric nipple
Another crafty build-up. I like the use of kitchen sounds. How did you do this in one week? Great mood music.

----- Like I said, lots of coffee and a very flexible job.

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Interactive Electric Nipple: Tighten your structure and value my time and I will love you. I really like the sound of this; very slick. I love the initial melody (especially the beat before the end of the main phrase: "beneath my...feet") and the conga percussion. The starting "doing dishes" sounds are cheesy and unwelcome. Delete the first :45 seconds, maybe even the first :60 and jump right into the verse. In general, your use of space is indulgent and weak. No architecture, just slick repetition. Like a Walmart---nice enough, and pretty effective, but damned near detestable in practice. By 3:00, I've given up on hearing a song; too soon for your jazz-y "interlude" (actually, a B-section where the song should have been finished for :20!) to be effective.

----- Check out the new version, It'll be roughly four minutes when the fadeout starts. I'm glad you'll love me!!! (maybe )

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IEN - Starts out with the bass line sounding like a slowed down 'California Uber Alles'. Other than that see Fifteen Years review. what's wrong with a chorus in this day and age? The name promises something different - probably less accomplished but more kicking.

----- I'm too ignorant to know what uber means, and I didn't include a chorus because I wanted a journey and A to B type of thing... I thought the "These clouds..." line sufficed... AND, I.E.N. will be my band name for super collabrative efforts (alot of which has to do with that it sounds so stupid and it's self-depratcating in a way... check http://www.interelecnip.org, coming soon, how soon I can't say... )

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Interactive Electric Nipple:

I sat down to listen to and review this with my long cord headphones on. The song repeated all night while I slept, and now, I think your song may have caused a seizure or something. How did you get Madonna to sing in this song? I would say that it's too long, but WoW! You got Kenny G. too! This smells like fresh baked Tortoise Apple Pie® that I sat in.

----- AWESOME!!! Sitting in apple pie is mad fun! I've heard that Cheryl sounds like Madonna a few times in this thread, and some from buddies who have listened to the track elsewhere. I'll take that as a compliment. Kenny G is my bud John Paul, who just started going to school for music and rocked the sax, and was psyched to bust out the theory he's been learning by rocking the hammond and bass line at the end. I've been an Anti-theory person my whole life, but the fact he did this all within 1/2 an hour is getting me to change my mind.
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Interactive Electric Nipple
The random noises at the start don't really grab me but the intro flows into the verse pretty well. The main vocal is too quiet and difficult to make out. Other than that it seems fairly well mixed although it can get a bit muddy when there is a lot going on. The song is ok but there isn't anything here that makes me want to listen for the full six minutes.

----- I've decided to raise the scat part at the end, and if you were talking about the 1st time the "these clouds" part repeated right at the start of the flute, I wanted it low, because the song is so long I thought a reminder of why you are there would be good. How would little random noises and a shorter song grab you?

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Interactive Electric Nipple
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Ambient crazy noises, the "snare" sounds like someone going "pssh!", is it? I like the dubstar sounding section when the singing starts, in fact the dubstar connection continues with the singing, the vocalist also sounds a lot like Madonna in the tonality of her voice. jesus christ though 6 minutes? i just think in places this is slightly masturbatory, is the long section with the "Aaaaahhh" bits really necessary? It gets my feet tapping in the "these clouds feel good beneath my feet" sections, but then I was forced to make a face when I heard the saxophone solo, it needs to go as the vocals are actually doing something different at that point. It's just far, far, far too long. You could have said what you wanted to in 2-3 mins. The instrumental sections and the sax solo are extraneous. even the fade out is 20 seconds!

----- I didn't know who dubstar was, but I'll check them out. And yes, I sampled me going "pssssssht" in ReCycle and rocked it in Reason. Same with most of the Ahhhh parts. I find it funny when I'm trying to find the note in that one "ahhhhhh" where I creep at LEAST 1/2 step . Found it even funnier when my friend Rob exploited it towards the end of that 1st really long interlude. I think I'll keep the beginning and end of that part for this reason, cut out the middle. Sax solo - I really dig it as it is, maybe it will sound more acceptable to you after some editing.

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Interactive Electric Nipple This is hands-down the best production of the week. The sound is so lush, and you've got a perfect balance between the bass and the top-end. Man, I wish I could get my highs to sound as crisp as that. The vocals are perfectly suited too. You didn't top my list only 'cause I found the track too long. (It sounds like a theme track ... Maybe you want to investigate this.)

----- I really appreciate you commentary on the production aspects of this song. Although, it failed the "crappy car stereo" test miserably. The bass was waaaaaaay to low and clean. I'm finding that with tracks largely composed in reason.... they're waaaaaaaay to perfect. Open the thing in peak for mastering and they look F'd. Think I'll play the bass on a real bass and bring the intensity of that down. As far as the mastering goes, I highly reccomend this set-up in peak (apple AU rox for some reason, dunno why)
Effect 1: Apple AU Multiband compressor, analog setting - pre-gain just enought to get the meters bouncing 1/4 of the way. Be careful not to squash dynamincs of freq's that don't need it and add to the song.
Effect 2: SuperFreq - I use VERY sparingly, try to get it all in effect 1.
Effect 3: Apple AU Matrix Reverb. I usually have it on the "small room" setting, between 20% - 30% and tinker as it needs be. The high end can really be affected by the High damper setting.
Effect 4: Apple AU Peak Limiter. I cut the attack to nothing, and pull the pregain up until the meter BARELY bounces. Gives me a hot enough track without screwing / distoring the tone too much.
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Interavtive Electric Nipple
Oooohh and i thought the last one was long
Nice tune Quite like world music but it doesnt do a great deal for me
Again I think its too long without the variety or tension moves to warrant it

-----I kept that 1st part after the 1st verse in there that long to kinda create tension... apparently it didn't work too well... hopefully it'll grab you better when shorter. As for world music, it's a big world and we're all in it

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Interactive Electric Nipple: I expected this to suck, and I'm sorry for judging a band by its name. Anyway, this was kind of like cheesy pop with just enough offkilter spookiness to make it really enjoyable. The bridge after the first verse makes me feel like I'm falling into some sort of space warp hell. I like it there.

----- NICE!!! The name was supposed to be "sucky". What's in a name anyway??? I appreciate your feedback, though I'll be shortening the song. It's also mad fun making cheesy pop, as long as it's either from the heart or reckless.

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Interactive Electrical Nipples........Beer Bottle Bangin'? bish.......bish a little hot in the mic ( i should know....i do the same thing)....great female vocals goin there........hmmmmmmm these are a lot of good songs.....the ahh ahhhhh part goes just a tad to long...unnecessary complexity.....hooray!! Saxaphone! Cool......oh yeah....groovy slidin out and then .....curve.......bumpy road....uncertainty.....where did the road we were on go to? I guess we are left to wander......if thats what you meant to do.....brilliant! if not......say you did! I dig it.......man seriously......i thought it would be easy to vote......but wow some kick ass submissions here


----- It was dinner plate bangin' . One thing about roomates, is they always get into your mic, but in this case I spurred them on (Rob my roomate (some piano / basslines / outro acoustic) and Jessie - his friend (piano parts, flute, and high "ahhhhh" samples). I also like the right hemisphere of your brain telling your left what to type in your reviews, way cool.

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Interactive Electric Nipple Nice drumming at the beginning. Nice buildup, lovely vocals & synth mix. Very pretty. Strange key changes and jazzy interludes. Wow, this is really long.

----- Awesome - thanks. And yes, it is r e a l l y l o n g.

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ANYHOO, I'll have a remix up in about a week and a half, if you're for some reason curious how it sounds.

Maybe we're going 'off thread' a bit here, but I like the idea of comparing set-ups, especially as I need to develop mine but am not a millionare.

I use a shure SM58 mike, Seymore Duncan "Woody" for my acoustic guitar (something called 'vega'), Yamaha Clavinova CLP 300 electric piano.

Everything goes into my two channels on the Fostex X-15 tape fourtrack, which I use as a pre-amp. I press pause and record and send the sound 'out' and into my soundcard (cheap, small stereo plug) and mix with Cubase and sometimes Soundforge. I have to spend a lot of time getting the levels right, and still had clipping this time I realize this is a very basic set-up.

If I want to spend money, I figure I need to start with an audio interface to USB (will this work as my mike pre-amp?) and a good microphone. Any advice is very welcome. I'm looking at a budget of 200 euros or less.

Fifteen Years
For some reason this isn’t quite as good as it should be. Something’s just not quite right with the vocals– don’t know what. The singing is excellent and you have a great voice – but it needs a little tweaking – reverb maybe? Minor quibble though – all up I really enjoyed this – well done.

deshead
This is quite sensational. Well done. Good vocals, good song and your musicianship is amazing. Not much more to say. Hard to beat.

Luke Henley
Interesting – in a good way. Not voteworthy this week – but I’d like to hear more from you.

Level Nivelo
I was loving this until the vocals started. Then I didn’t love it any more

mediteraniem
Not a bad song. Vocals a tad off here and there – but only a tad. Suffers in comparison to so much other good stuff in this fight – but a good song all the same. Nice build up in energy.

Hentai k D
Nice work – but a bit too gothic for me. Got some really good guitar stuff in there.

John Benjamin band
Well executed – but not really interesting me as much as others here

Brice Henry and the transformers
Singing is killing me

Carlo
Singing a bit off. Lyrics not grabbing me at all.

Wreckdom
Ralph, Potsy, Richie – come quick. Fonzie’s got some great new drugs! This is great.

The Likely Lads
Yeah! This is great. If was pissed in a hot sweaty pub, standing in a puddle of my own vomit watching you play this live, I would think you were gods.

messiah
Vocals very thin. Not grabbing me

Pipe Fist
Sounds a bit too ‘busy’ – song not grabbing me

Interactive electric nipple
Wow! This is great. You remind me of the Headless Chickens from NZ. Has this got anything to do with the title – or have you just submitted a song you had lying around? Whatever, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt – I like it and I’ll probably vote for it

SUMMARY:
Enormously high quality fight. Even the bad review I gave above – were mainly only because there was so much good stuff to compare it to (except Brice Henry – you deserved your bad review – sorry). I heard Deshead first and thought he was unbeatable – then I heard the Nipples, Likely Lads and Wreckdom – now I don’t know where to vote. 15 yrs, JBB, HKD, Luke and Mediterraneum were likewise pretty impressive.

I think I’ll go for the electric nipples.

johnsonic wrote: I'm too ignorant to know what uber means

German for "over," probably came into the English language in connection to Nazi Germany's attention to the übermensch (that should be capitalized) concept, which was the over-man or Aryan "Superman" that they were trying to create via selective breeding/eugenics. Also "Deutschland über Alles" meaning "Germany over all". This is what being referred to there.
These days it's been picked up on the "over" meaning, to say this is "ultra" something; you'll find hipsters saying this these days.
Was that explanation even necessary?
-bill

uber is so 1998

jb wrote:uber is so 1998

"is so" is so 1985.

jb wrote:uber is so 1998

Right.

HeuristicsInc wrote: These days it's been picked up on the "over" meaning, to say this is "ultra" something; you'll find years-behind-the-times-and-hopelessly-out-of-date hipsters saying this these days.

-bill

Leaf wrote:

jb wrote:uber is so 1998

"is so" is so 1985.

"1985" is so '78.

1: messiah, jbb, 15 years, interactive, hkd, pipefist
2: likely, nivelo, mediter, wreckdom, carlier, deshead

interactive - the vocal line there reminds me a little too much of that song "express yourself" or whatever it is by madonna. but good anyway. silly band name tho.
jbb's is awesome. i wasn't that excited the first time i heard it, but the second time was definitely stronger for some reason.
i voted for jbb.
-bill

HeuristicsInc wrote:jbb's is awesome. i wasn't that excited the first time i heard it, but the second time was definitely stronger for some reason.
i voted for jbb.-bill

Woot! Thanks Bill! That's one at least, seeing as I forgot to vote. Heh. I think Blue once said that my songs sneak up on you. Or words to that effect. I can't find the quote at the moment.

Thanks to everybody who liked the song, especially those who said so out loud. I'm pleased with it, for the most part, mixing issues and clams aside.

I enjoyed all the ones the rest of you did, to pretty much the same extent. I probably enjoyed Fifteen Years more than most of the reviews indicated they did. Kind of reminds me of Dead Can Dance or Bel Canto. Voice coulda used some Autotune (I think it's appropriate to this style) and some nice airy reverb to go with the reverb that's on the piano. But I dig it.

And Deshead of course, dude you sure do know some musicians don't you? Heh. Nice. And the Nip had nice vocals. Sounds like Debbie Harry almost. Level Nivelo, just move the vox back and add some reverb, and it'll sound like a real mix. Your sequencer does almost all the work for you. Very ambitious track.

Good fight everybody.

jb

I too voted for JB

I liked most of these songs... I didn't like the bad ones...and I think you know who you are.

PipeFist wrote:

deshead wrote: You should win this fight.

Ha, that's crazy talk, man.

Oh yeah?

Congrats on 2 in a row!!

jb wrote: Woot! Thanks Bill! That's one at least, seeing as I forgot to vote. Heh. I think Blue once said that my songs sneak up on you. Or words to that effect. I can't find the quote at the moment.

You're welcome, and I'd agree with that. I should go find my review of your Science and see if I liked it then as much as I do now.
...er... i can't find them. googling on dumbrella doesn't seem to be finding it. and the review link for "science" is broken.
-bill

ROK pipefist! YAY!

HeuristicsInc wrote:

jb wrote: Woot! Thanks Bill! That's one at least, seeing as I forgot to vote. Heh. I think Blue once said that my songs sneak up on you. Or words to that effect. I can't find the quote at the moment.

You're welcome, and I'd agree with that. I should go find my review of your Science and see if I liked it then as much as I do now.
...er... i can't find them. googling on dumbrella doesn't seem to be finding it. and the review link for "science" is broken.
-bill

Aha:
JBB - Ooh, really cool instrumental beginning. The bassline or something reminds me obscurely of an 80's song but I can't think of what. Do I hear
vocal pitch correction? Catchy chorus. One thing that's cool here is that the song is cool even if you're not a fan of that comic. This is a strong entry. I like the singing at the end.

...so, I guess I did
-bill

[quote="Carlobarlo"]Maybe we're going 'off thread' a bit here, but I like the idea of comparing set-ups, especially as I need to develop mine but am not a millionare.

I use a shure SM58 mike, Seymore Duncan "Woody" for my acoustic guitar (something called 'vega'), Yamaha Clavinova CLP 300 electric piano.

Everything goes into my two channels on the Fostex X-15 tape fourtrack, which I use as a pre-amp. I press pause and record and send the sound 'out' and into my soundcard (cheap, small stereo plug) and mix with Cubase and sometimes Soundforge. I have to spend a lot of time getting the levels right, and still had clipping this time I realize this is a very basic set-up.

If I want to spend money, I figure I need to start with an audio interface to USB (will this work as my mike pre-amp?) and a good microphone. Any advice is very welcome. I'm looking at a budget of 200 euros or less.[/quote]

I'd actually grab a 2 channel compressor / limiter (my DBX cost $100, not sure what that is in euros) and run it between the fostex and your factory soundcard... that's probably the best way to jumpstart your rig for now. As for USB interfaces, chack out the audiophile 24/96... not a bad unit. ALTHOUGH, for 200 euros, you could probably pick up a used digital 4 or 8 track with onboard effects... record on there then bring it over through your factory soundcard... I did that for about a year with surprising results, and that way you pick up a slew of effects too... Get the audio interface when you can, it is an improvement in sound, but I didn't notice as huge a leap as I expected.

ROK

jb wrote:Voice coulda used some Autotune (I think it's appropriate to this style)

jb

Thanks JB for the advice. Do you know how I could get my hands on quality Autotune for Logic?

Some late reviews from Anita, the singer for Fifteen Years:

There are a lot of hella good songs this week!
"Interactive Electronic Nippple" is kinda interesting... but the song doesn't go anywhere and I'm not sure how it relates to the title. And I think it's funny that the first two religions "The Likely Lads" mentions is Judiasm and Hinduism*... I guess they rhyme or something. "Wreckdom" made me laugh. Pipefist manages to add some electronic elements to what would otherwise be a simple guitar song. Deshead was awesome. Good coffeehouse guitar song.... but with a fiddle! (and the clever catch phrase "I might avoid the wrath of god, but i'm still stuck with you!")
I think the lyric I liked the best though was on Meditarainiem. "It's not the wrath of god if things don't go your way."

*because I'm Jewish and Anita's Hindu

Sweet, I thought for sure Deshead was gonna get it. Well, thanks for voting for me, whoever did that.

PipeFist wrote:Sweet, I thought for sure Deshead was gonna get it. Well, thanks for voting for me, whoever did that.

Heh, count me as one of them. That's irony, or something.

Lonbobby wrote:Do you know how I could get my hands on quality Autotune for Logic?

Anything from this page that comes in a VST version should work. (Antares Autotune 4 should also work.) And I think the latest verison of Logic comes with an autotuner built-in.

Thanks for that info Johnsonic.