Tell me how much my song sucks (Mean to Me reviews)

[jack]

go ahead.

[blue]

a lot.

no not really. i mean, some of you, maybe. ours kinda does. but kinda not.

[jack]

dude.......why are you so mean to me?

i think it must be jealousy. you're only happy when you see me writhe in agony.

[Leaf]

hhhmmmm.... maybe it's not AGONY he wants to see your writhe in...you kitten you.


Get a room!

[blue]

haha! the songs aren't even posted and leaf has already ruined this thread.

[j$]

Adam Dachis - Adam a girl's name, is it? This sounds like a song written for a musical with some strangely incongruous drums slapped behind it to try and make it 'pop'. I like the voice, and while it's not Cabaret, I like the mood. I would much prefer it without the drums however. I love the la-la-las but please lose / slow down the drums. Are they from a different song? Also done at 2.02 ish, especially as the double-tracking doesn't quite gel ... CONTENDER

Censorship Committee - ah, that's a good opening. Just the right side of 'too loud' - but then I realise that you are going to play the vocals at an appropriate volume and it's 'OK bored now' (at 47 seconds) - it started so well ... this joke was done in the 'Gallows Hill' fight and it didn't work for me then, so I guess it wasn't going to work for me now either. Probably my bad. Sorry.

HTPC - Why piano so loud / vocal so quiet? I like it but I really can only just make out the vocal. Not bad, but this would be a much better song with the mix (well there's only two tracks but you know what I mean) better balanced. And why do you keep breaking out into laughter? The lyric doesn't seem so funny. maybe someone was pulling a moony across the hall or something .... it would be a contender if I could make it out a bit better ...

JitC - is me, with the mighty Jack Shite bringing it as per. Nuff said.

Niveous (i think it's Niv, no ID tags)? I like. In a good way, I thought this was Poor June at first (it's the backwards stuff) The vocal is nice and clear but perhaps a little quiet? There's some nice trademark Niv lyrics in there too. I like the combination of Niv / XTRG stuff, I might have ended it a little sooner but enjoyable.

Oh Tomasio - I like the banjo - the synth is a bit hard-panned for me .. oh it's a guitar? Cool tone. The acoustic is a bit forceful in the mix. The right length for what it is. I like your voice, even the pitchiness is quite endearing (not that much pitchiness but when it comes, I mean). Yeah, not bad at all.

Phunt Your Friends - I have nothing much constructive (i.e. in terms that might help you) to say, except I like the keyboard loop a lot. And mentioning Shazam is always pleasing.

RavenPain - Read Censorship Committee review.

ScottBomb - A 10 minute instrumental? Aak.

Sell Crazy - I actually like this one a lot. Can't say why I like it more than your previous ones, the vocals have more warmth to them than usual, maybe?? Cool. CONTENDER

Smalltown Mike - that's great!! I don't like the fake reggae tone to your voice but that's about the only thing that bothers me ... and I wish you had some harmonies on the chorus - CONTENDER

SOS - bass could be heavier. The 'megaphone' effect on the vocals could be a little quieter. Just as it's really getting going, it ends ... that aside it's a good good song. And for once I can't get arsey about novelty lyric content can I (seeing as I can't make out the words?) CONTENDER

Smalltown Mike or SOS for me, I think.

[king_arthur]

The old guy sez:

<b>Adam Dachis</b>

You might wanna look into variable bit rate encoding, just to
keep the MP3 filesize down... the drums doing the same double time
thing all the way through the song gets a little repetitive...
the singer has a nice voice, but that drum thing really distracts
from what she's singing.

<b>Hot Tub Combo</b>

Between low level and reverb, the vocals kinda disappeared.
The piano part is pretty much at the "pounding on the keys"
level all the way through - lightening up on it here and
there could make the song more interesting.

<b>Johnny in the Corner</b>

Wishing it was a little more in tune and on the beat, but I like
the way the vocals are right out there and the lyric tells a
story well. The AAAA rhyme schemes give it a comic sorta feel

that works against the story line in places, though I s'pose
'twas intentional.

<b>Niveous</b>

Backwards guitar is interesting, tho I sorta wished it had only
been for the first verse, and then switched to... whole band, or
at least just regular guy and guitar. Or switched up the chords
more or varied the dynamics or something. I caught enough of the
lyric to get a sense that there was an interesting story going
on, wish it had been a bit louder in the mix.

<b>Oh Tomasio</b>

Singing and playing a little more in tune woulda been a plus
for me, but there's a good song in there. I like the way you
started out the lyric strong, grabbed my attention from the
start. The melody/chord pattern at the very end of the chorus
("bad 'cause you were mean to me") seemed like it didn't quite
fit the rest of the music.

<b>Phunt Your Friends</b>

Not my thing.

<b>Raven Pain</b>

Distorted vocals are a big turnoff for me. Sorry.

<b>Scott</b>

9.6 mb of .mp3, huh? Ten minutes is a bit long for songfight,
in general... especially ten minutes of this sorta stuff. Yeah,
okay, I'll remember you next time and maybe not bother...

<b>Sell Crazy</b>

When you're recording the vocals, try paying a little more
attention to the rhythm in the words - there are some words
that are held out long because "that's how the melody goes,"
but doing that kinda works against the lyrics. Nice variety
in the chord pattern. Although I'd like it better if it were
a little more in tune, it's a keeper.

<b>Smalltown Mike</b>

This is good. Sounds good, lyric grabbed me right from the
start. A "laundry list" approach to the song, but a very
interesting laundry list. Definite keeper.

<b>sonofsupercar</b>

I continue to not "get" you guys. Sorry.

<b>The Censorship Committee</b>

Okay, got it. Distorted vocals, I'll pass.

Vote: Smalltown Mike. A simple approach, but well constructed
and performed. Good lyric.

[blue]

Adam: You have a good song and sound here, but some very interesting mixing choices might be detracting from it. It sounds like it must have been mixed in headphones - the balance is distractingly off in places. Through the whole first verse section, the bass in the left speaker piano really outweighs the vibes on the right. Sweeping the strings as you go into chorus is cool, but then things get weird again.

I didn't mind the drums at all, but I am a drummer. When I listened to this a couple of times at work in headphones, I thought it'd be a hands-down winner (it still might), but now I dunno if the mix isn't a little too scattered to keep shoo-in status.

JITC: The opening verse is really funny, altho that transition from intro to verse freaks me out a little. I like all the supporting noises on the verses, but that big guitar sounds out of tune and is in a weird place in the mix to add much.

OHTOMASIO: Man I like this a lot. The big nasty loose acoustic is right up my alley. Seems a little thing on material, tho. Just kinda wang wang wang CHORUS wang oops it's done.

Sell Crazy: Nothing stellar, but a well put together song. The tambourine is a nice touch. If you're gonna waltz, tho, you gotta bring more to the lyric table than "my woman is so mean to me."

Small Town Mike: Guitar seems very incongruous for the song's tonality. Lyrics that I can make out are funny - but man does it slop up in the chorus. Whatev, this is a good song. LOUDER VOCALS.

The rest of the fight was either "meh," "techno," or "Niveous kinda dickin' around." But hey! Five good songs, and a couple of new songfighters bringing the entirely listenable music! That's a good fight in my book.

[A_Likely_Mike]

Adam Dachis
I love the "Oh how I want a million things melody" section and the beautifully Joanna Newsom La la la/na na na section, however the rest of the song (which is a trifle long for the point you're trying to get across), is rather monotonous probably because the general mood of the track never shifts gear, I think it's the drums that are the major culprit, fills are here and there but nothing really suggests any milestones. The singing is fantastic, but in my opinion the song is too long and samey. Not really sure how this references the title?

Censorship Committee
Distorted nonsense complete with obnoxious beeps. Ears bleeding...

Hot Tub Combo
Great sounding piano, but unfortunately the singing is pretty low in the mix, making it hard to discern what you're singing and indeed why you keep laughing every now and then. In turning up the volume to hear your vox, those piano stabs get a little painful. How did you record this? Quality piano playing, the vocal don't impress Shania much though.

Johnny in the Corner
Aside from the missing bass I really like this. Particular the time signature/tempo change, the clean guitar sounds good, and the organ doubling the vocal line in the chorus adds to the fairground playfulness of the whole thing. The punchline is funny, one thing I reckon would really beef the whole thing up is if you continued the Yeeeaahs in the chorus to sweep with the melody at for example 1:41. That's what I was aching to hear anyway. The bridge is good, but there's misjoint rhythm there in the drums that is audible. nice.

Niveous
No ID tag, but I guess this has to be the song. The backward motif gets old pretty quickly, it's a shame the song didn't go anywhere else. It's a shame as the vocal melody seems interesting, from what I can tell from trying to ignore the accompanyment. The reference to disease is cringeworthy though. Cheer up.

Oh Tomasio
Not bad, I like the banjo guitar combo. The vocals are a little off in place, but that doesn't make this unlistenable, the Ben Kweller demoesque acoustic guitar/distorted electric lead guitar combo is charming.

Phunt Your Friends
This took more effort to listen to than I'm sure you put into making it. Nuff. said.

Raven Pain
The worst kind of deja vú.

Scott daBomb Wilson
Ok, what sounded like a promising 303esque start has decended into monotonous knob twiddling tomfoolery. This really isn't my thing, and I have an agreement with a friend that if it becomes my thing through, I dunno, due to concussion or severe head trauma, then he gets to slap me upside the head. terrible. and Ten minutes? No.

Smalltown Mike
Aahhhhh actually music again after like 10 minutes of rubbish!
I like the ska feel, but can't help thinking that a more sharp clean guitar would work better, but that's a minor gripe. I really like the chorus chords and vocal melody which took me my surprise and sound very cool. "Nerdrockers in hornrimmed glasses" is a fine lyric. Pretty much by numbers but good all the same, I like it when the drums spazz.

Son Of Supercar
Backwards slappy slap noises. Hmm those guitars are pretty out of tune, but you must know that, right? I'm not really sure about this one at all, it just doesn't appeal because of that lacklustre slacker feel, although I'm sure that's completely intentional. The distortion on the vocals is a little too gritty to be an effect, it seems more of a mask. I like the Darth Vader Flanger effect much better.

[j$]

Johnny in the Corner
Aside from the missing bass .....

There's a bass there. Real bass. Jack even got me to turn it up in the mix. or do you mean it's gone missing as in it's all over the place?

[nyjm]

<b>Adam Dachis</b>
- the melody is awkward, especially the "dry-cleaning" line
- "la la la"? that and the strings make this tune take a really weird turn
- there's nothing compelling about this song; it's quite proficient: well-produced, well-performed, but there's nothing here that engages or transports me

<b>The Censorship Committee</b>
- haha! bleep! bleep! bleep! but it gets old, especially b/c the bleeps cut out the music as well as the vox
- the clipping vocals are not funny
- what's with the outro?

<b>Hot Tub Combo</b>
- PIANOPIANOPIANOPIANOvoxPIANOPIANOPIANOPIANO (live recording?)
- take your foot off the sustain pedal
- this seems like a really good song which has been very poorly recorded; that's too bad

<b>Johnny in the Corner</b>
- j$ lets his accent all hang out, and i can so see this being performed in a london pub
- the drums are great, as are the guitars
- i really like the vox production, but there should be more of a snarl on the performance
- the ending: hahaha!

<b>Niveous</b>
- needs more than the backwards guitar and the vox; how about some drums and some backing vocals?
- the most mainstream vox/lyrics i've ever heard from you, and i like them (what i can hear, at least)
- the chorus needs to break out more (like with loud, ringing, overdriven guitars) the vox, too.

<b>Oh Tomasio</b>
- lower the guitar in the mix; it's not that interesting and i can't hear you sing
- the electric guitar on the right is a nice touch
- seems unfinished

<b>Phunt Your Friends</b>
- this <b>PIECE <i>s u f</b> f ers</i> ... f<b>rom ... M<i>ULTIPLE P</i>E</b>RSon ality ... <i>dis</i> <b>ORD</b>E r

<b>Raven Pain</b>
- aka the censorship committee without the bleeps
- it's better with the bleeps; the lyrics are juvenile
- the clipped vox are still not funny
- the riff, however, is pretty cool, a good, rocking dance rhythm

<b>Scott</b>
- 10:18? ambitious, aren't we?
- somebody's been listening to coil
- the audio equivalent of a 3 year-old and a crayon: not without brief moments of interest, but overall just electronic doodling

<b>Sell Crazy</b>
- nice vocal harmonies
- the panned drums are a nice touch
- don't have any consctructive criticism; i like this song, but i don't REALLY like this song because it doesn't make me get up and dance (in a figurative manner, of course)

<b>Smalltown Mike</b>
- nice groove
- great little echo vox on the right
- just when i was looking for a change-up, there it is. nice work on the solo and drum break
- great turn around with the lyrics in the last verse; yay for ambiguity!

<b>sonofsupercar</b>
- interesting opening; you definitely have my attention
- the guitars sound out of tune
- the vox are buried
- relentlessly slow

[A_Likely_Mike]

Johnny in the Corner
Aside from the missing bass .....

There's a bass there. Real bass. Jack even got me to turn it up in the mix. or do you mean it's gone missing as in it's all over the place?

yeah I know it's there dude, and it's not all over the place as far as I can tell, I just couldn't hear it all that well, and hey, I'm a bass player (sometimes) so I likes the growl.

[j$]

Ah cool, that's OK then! Thanks for clearing that up - it's all helpful - I'm a bass player first and foremost too, but currently without .. so when I got a chance to play a real one for this song, I suddenly realised I have very little experience of mixing them into songs. It's a different approach to a synth-bass (as I am sure you know)

j$

[Smalltown Mike]

Scott Da Bomb

You’ve heard the “it’s really long” complaint already, but it is. I think it starts out interesting enough, but then there’s some very unlistenable stuff in there.

Johnny in the Corner

You know you’ve got me right from the organ, and I love how the guitar comes in. The drums could be stronger in the mix, though, because that’s a great beat with great fills. At the end, I miss that great guitar that had kicked in at :23; it would have been nice to hear it again. The last line is great. I like this; it reminds me of getting beaten up in high school for having funny hair.

Sell Crazy

Nice. This is really good. It has such a late night feel; not that it feels like it was recorded late at night, but that it should only be listened to at 2 a.m., in the rain. And I’m listening to it at 7 a.m. I love this—and it’s really not even my kind of music. I just listened to it twice, you get my vote.

Phunt Your Friends.

Again, I just don’t get it. All I can hope is that you’re enjoying making them.

Ravenpain/Censorship Committee

When you did this with Pasty White Man a few weeks back, at least it was new. But hearing a second song like this grew really tiring really quickly.

The Hot Tub Pool Combo

Obviously, the vocals are way too quiet. The piano sounds really interesting, but it’s not very clear. What a drag, I’d really like to hear what you’re saying. It’s like I’m walking through a strange neighbourhood in the middle of the night, and I’m standing on the street straining to listen to someone up in their warehouse apartment.

Niveous

Although the backwards guitar is kind of cool, I think I’d just as soon hear the song played straight. Maybe it could start off backwards before kicking in forwards; it seems to much to go through the whole song. Something gets a little grating at 2:00. Interesting ending.

Oh Tomasio

The banjo picking (is it banjo picking) adds a lot to the song, but it’s pretty quiet. The vocals are hard to hear, too. There seems to be potential here that needs to be developed.

Adam Dachis

Nice intro but I don’t think the drums fit the song. I’d like to hear a slow haunting beat, not double time. The mix is pretty heavy in my left ear. The “na nas” at about 1:30 seem really wrong for the song; the song seems to get really happy all of a sudden, and then go back to being more melancholy. I think changing the drums would go a long way to improving this.

Son of Supercar

The break (at about 1:00) is good. Good drum sound. I can’t really get behind the effects choice for the vox; it makes them too hard to understand.

Smalltown Mike

I had a lot of fun making this. J$ pointed out the “fake reggae tone” in my vocals, and all I can say is I tried hard not to fall into the fake accent people use who don’t usually play reggae. But I liked writing this, I liked singing it, and I thank The Todd from the Beresfordians for laying down a very fitting solo.

[blue]

Son Of Supercar
Hmm those guitars are pretty out of tune, but you must know that, right?

our guitars are ALWAYS in tune, mister. it's just that only the first note of each measure is not max dissonant. (and there's a lot of timing misses)

The distortion on the vocals is a little too gritty to be an effect, it seems more of a mask.

GUILTY.

[jack]

adam dachis
the backing mix on this is really pretty cool. the singing is for the most part, very nicely done too, but seems to be singing pretty much straight to the melody line in the verse. the cello/string stuff on this is also real nice. points for originality on the arrangement. and i love when the doubled off vocal track comes in. really nice job. it gets a bit repetitous with the length, but it's very well put together.

niveous
not a bad idea but if you'd lowered the reversed stuff and raised the vox a bit, i'd probably like it a bit more. the vox get drowned out and the reversed stuff gets repetitive as the main focus.

phunt your friends
nope. sorry. didn't care for it.

johnny in the corner
dude, i'm never out of tune. ever. EVAR. well, i might have been just a bit out of tune. thanks for having me johnny, in a purely figurative sort of way. wait, that still doesn't sound right.

raven pain
those vocals actually made me jump when they came in. i like the backing mix. i hate the way you sing. the lyrics are just plain beyond stupid so i'll just leave it at that. the mix has huge potential. fire the singer and the lyricist.

oh tomasio
this is pretty good in a loose sort of replacements way. love the banjo or mandolin or whatever that is. if you'd swapped out the loud hard right panned guitar with a kazoo, and chucked a little cowbell in there, you'd have given blue a hard on. this is pretty good.

the censorship committee
why don't you quit wasting my bandwidth.

smalltown mike
cool reggae rock arrangement but the vocals could really come up in the mix. drums are great, as are the little response vox loops. this could be a very cool song played live. thats some very sweet bass you have going there too. ah man, i love that little solo (needs some cool delay in that lead though!). this is groovy.

hot tub combo
it's hard to judge this fairly, as the piano is so loud and overbearing. it sounds like it could have been a decent little song, but the mix is terrible.

sell crazy
not too crazy about those drums. they just sound out of time most of the time. the rest of this is pretty nicely done. singing and harmonies sound really nice, as does the guitar. the chimes sound cool. if you had lost the drums and just used those little chime shots, now that would be cool. hate to slag the drummer, but if you'd just used an occasional tom run and splash crash, that would be fine, but as it is, it's really a distraction.

sonofsupercar
i like it, out of tune guitars and all. i actually like the effected vocals. ha, is that your lap steel guitar? great production man. i'm raising my lighter in fond memories of klownhole.

scott
it's the MIDI masturbation unit!

faves: adam dachis, supercar, JITC, smalltown mike, tomasio.

[Jim of Seattle]

Recorded reviews

Adam Dachis
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding15.wav
Hot Tub Pool Combo
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding16.wav
Johnny in the Corner
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding17.wav
Phunt Your Friends
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding18.wav
Smalltown Mike
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding19.wav
Censorship Commitee
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding20.wav
Niveous
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding21.wav
Oh Tomasio
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding22.wav
Raven Pain
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding23.wav
Scott
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding24.wav
Sell Crazy
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding25.wav
sonofsupercar
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding26.wav

[A_Likely_Mike]

Recorded reviews

Adam Dachis
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding15.wav
Hot Tub Pool Combo
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding16.wav
Johnny in the Corner
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding17.wav
Phunt Your Friends
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding18.wav
Smalltown Mike
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding19.wav
Censorship Commitee
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding20.wav
Niveous
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding21.wav
Oh Tomasio
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding22.wav
Raven Pain
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding23.wav
Scott
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding24.wav
Sell Crazy
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding25.wav
sonofsupercar
http://www.jimowen.org/Songfight/Review ... ding26.wav

hahaha.. i loved listening to them. you're a legend.

[Kamakura]

Recorded reviews

Excellent!

[Mogosagatai]

<b>Sell Crazy</b>: This gives off a really nice Pink-Floyd-in-their-pretty-phase vibe. It'd be at least twenty times cooler if you performed it more like Pink Floyd would have--really echoey mix (especially in vocals), maybe some nice juicy organ to fill up all that space. As it is, very nice but a little dry.

<b>Oh Tomasio</b>: You're singing as if you were somewhere where you weren't too comfortable at the thought of anyone else hearing you. That should change. A little more gusto and you might even hit those high notes. As for the rest of it, do more to change it up a little, chordwise. I wouldn't mind hearing more of that fuzzy electric guitar.

<b>Hot Tub Pool Combo</b>: Hahaha, this is so bad. I chuckled more than once though. If it hadn't dragged on for so long, I might've even liked it. This sounds like it was recorded in dark, scary cave, which makes it all the more bearable because that's hilarious. Ever considered using the shoddy quality of your recording set-up to your advantage? I mean, that's what you did here, so...

<b>Censorship Committee</b>: Alright fellas, the joke is out of everyone's system now. Thanks for roundin' up the stragglers.

<b>Adam Dachis</b>: ...is a <i>girl</i>?? <font size=1>(What I mean is, you oughta give her credit too!)</font> Of all your stuff that I've heard, I like this the best. I'm not normally a fan of musical-type music, because it seems to carry what I consider an unhealthy level of cheesiness, but this is saved by the pitter-patter style (adds the same kind of slickness that makes "The Music Man" so good) and by the tinge of darkness. Maybe you should lean more towards either of these two things in the future, cuz I want to be able to appreciate your obvious talent and still feel something in the process, like I'm sort of doing right now.

<b>Johnny in the Corner</b>: Funkalicious drummin'. That organ is a nice slice of sound to have in here. The style of the song, esp. the beat, sorta stumbles over itself uncomfortably in the beginning before the disco-funkness really rolls in. The disco-funkness is fine and good, but then it also drags on maybe a verse/chorus too much. The song's celebratory vibe, in contradiction with the lyrics, ends up sounding really sarcastic, which is good, because j$'s voice is, if suitable for any type of music, very suitable for sarcasm.

<b>Raven Pain</b>: Oh I get it, it's like the first one but less funny cuz there's not that joke about beepin' stuff out but it's even <i>funnier</i> cuz see the new joke is that there's no censors anymore even though that's what you expected, hahaha! Whew. :23 into it.

<b>Smalltown Mike</b>: This feels sort of uncomfortably stuck between genres, which is perhaps what gives it this sort of lackluster quality. I just don't gather any distinctive feelings by listening to this, as if I can't quite discern what you're trying to say musically. The production is nice and shiny, though the guido/ratchet-y sound can get a little overbearing sometimes.

<b>sonofsupercar</b>: This has the weirdest sound/musical quality. It feels like there's this thick, molasses-like goop that is just gooped up all over the whole song, and is pulling it down ever so slightly into the thick dark underworld of out-of-tuneness and inharmonicness. You're trying to sound like a regular band, but you can't cuz of all the goop! Which is, or at least can be, pretty cool. It pretty much totally works here, turning what could've been a sub-standard 60's r&b song into something enjoyable.

<b>Scott</b>: I'm gettin' antsy quick. Those are very cool keyboard effects, but they're also not <i>that</i> cool. This has lots of changes, but at way too slow a rate to hold anyone's attention without slowing down their brain a bit in the process--and that's bad. The part where a rhode-organy thing plays, around the early ninth minute, holds my attention and is momentarily pleasing, then loses me again. To sum it up, this a <i>tad</i> overdone. We've seen the expository and now we want a story.

<b>Niveous</b>: This whole song appears to have dissolved into itself. It's muffled, quiet, muddy, and just doesn't push any buttons on me. Cool backwardsness idea, but some refinement is in order.

So if I were to remember to vote, it'd probably be for sonofsupercar, or if not them then Sell Crazy, or else Adam Dachis.

[j$]

<j$'s voice is, if suitable for any type of music, very suitable for sarcasm.

Eat me.

[Mogosagatai]

Eat me.

What?? I really mean it! Like, in a good way. Aaaah, miscommunication over the internet!