Hardware recording interfaces?

[Sober]

I need a better way to record. I've got the Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum 2 sound card thing, but it's just not cutting it anymore.

I want something that can give me a super clean signal, I can record multiple channels at once on, has at least one xlr input, and will interface directly with my PC in a fashion that will not ruin the signal.

Also, it'd be nice if it had a guitar thing built in that would give me a good DI sound, like I understand the J station does.

I've heard about the Mbox-protools combo. Is that allright?

I'm prepared to spend a good $500 on this. I want this to last me. I'm done taking baby steps towards a good recording setup. I want to take one big leap every paycheck.

EDIT: I just looked at the Mbox, and I'm not really impressed. It looks like a toy. Lexicon makes basically the same thing called Omega. We've got it at the store, and it's fine for one man band stuff, but I'd like to expand beyond that. I'll probably start working with a band in the near future, and I'd like to be able to do a full demo and all that at home, without doing single takes for every track.

So, an external hardware unit with all my little inputs (8 if possible without spending a fortune?) and things, with maybe a firewire cable that'll go to.. maybe an internal sound card (one that's made to work with the external peice, not my SB card), and maybe it interfaces with protools?

Does this exist? How are you better producers capturing your sound?

[Sober]

This thing looks pretty fucking sweet, and it's rack-mountable. It's packaged with Cubase, which I guess I could live with. List (bullshit price) is $795

Yamaha (a company I am deeply in love with) also makes this cool little thing which would also be good for recording live gigs. Ebay (realistic price) is around $800

The search continues!

Edit: If this photodoesn't seal the deal on the firepod, nothing does. God I'm a sucker for marketing directed at my fucking forehead.

Well damnit. Now I've found a somewhat similar Yamaha product, only it only has 2 xlr inputs (big pic).

I'm inclined to think that the Presonus trades quality for more i/o. Maybe I'm just a Yamaha fanboy.

Further edit: Looks like the presonus would cost around $600, and the Yamaha around $400. I very well may go with the presonus.

Quick question: My SB card has a firewire port, which I've never used. I should still get a better sound card, right? I want a damn beast processing my 8 tracks of audio data, right? Or would it make any difference at all? Will I get better latency and stuff?

I think I'm done for now.

[blue]

firepod is the way to go. SB is prolly fine for mixing as long as it has ASIO drivers, which it does.

[Me$$iah]

The M-Box with pro tools LE is crap, and it has to be so.
Lets face it what make ProTools so damn good is all the DSP stuff and hardware that comes with it. And the LE version obviously has none of this.
Also although protools is great for handling audio it isnt that great at MIDI.
I would suggest taking a Pro route and going with a real Pro toolsset up not the toy M-box LE one(if you have many thousands of dollars that is)

Otherwise

The alternative in my opinion is to look at somthing similar to a pro tools setup....Is there any thing on the market, which fills the gap between the consumer, home recording stuff (Audigy2 or M-Box etc) and the real expensive pro gear(pro tools etc).......
Is there any thing like that
Yes there is
Creamware....A German company..from the radio comm tradition (stenheiser Audio Technica etc.)
They do a range of DSP cards (now called SCOPE formally Pulsar)that rival any ProTools plugins and recording cards(tripleDAT) that also rival the Pro tools audio handling
All these can be connected through various AD/DA boxes, depending on how many and what types of in/out you req, like the A16Ultra which has probably the best cionverters on the market, and can handle 16 channels in out at 32 bit simultainiously and more that one A16Ultra can be conneted to each Pulsar card. I think the max number of IN/Outs available on a Pulsar2 card with the correct extensions is 96 or 128. And as many as three cards can be linked together in one comp, giving a possibility of more I/O than youd ever need,ever
And best of all.. and you can always upgrade just by adding more DSPs
A truly pro solution at not pro prices....Creamware is expensive compared to soundblaster or M-Audio etc....but you can really hear where the extra cash went
A studio based around the Scope platform is in my opinion is the way to go. Itll sound like a beast, and IMO give you the best sounding studio in your area, even better than many of the pro studios, esp the studios springing up based aroung the toyM-Box...youd blow them everyday
And best of all is if you put the Audigy in another comp and run VSTs off of that, freeing up heaps of comp resources

I mentioned this in BellGreens thread about DSP cards
http://www.creamware.de
or to hear the cards being used (by many pro sound engineers and producers in their 'home'studios)
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewforum ... um=17&8515

Just my $0.02

Cheers
Messiah

[starfinger]

i'm using a motu traveler which looks almost exactly like the firepod thing you posted. I can't compare that one to the motu quality-wise, but I can say that firewire is capable of providing massive high quality throughput at low low latency. I get 5ms on mine.

plus if you ever get a laptop you have an instant mobile studio.

EDIT: well they don't look exactly the same. I can use the motu as a mixer without a computer, and it has the signal levels in a neat little LED on the front.

-craig

[stueym]

Sober

I have the 01X. If you want me to bring to SFBoston I will and you could have a look over. Plus these things are slow movers as they are so awesomely powerful that lots of folks give up and resell for a simpler interface. Prices do slip below $800 on occasions.

I have invested heavily in Steinberg/Cubase software so the Yam was the obvious way for me to go once the acquisition took place. I did look at other control surfaces rather than just I/O boxes for example the Tascam firewire control surfaces. Physically this feels nice and solid and works well for me.

The 01X internal mode (what you'd use to run it as a mixer stand alone) is pretty cool. The mic preamps are supposed to be super clean but I find them a little underpowered with my AKG C1000 and C3000 so I still use my Roland preamp. But quality is pretty good.

The Studio Connections thing is awesome with Cubase SX3. The names you give each channel appear in the LED control strip for each channel on the 01X and the faders are automated bi-directionally. Plus each song remembers its own settings and resets as you load the song.

I love the real life feel of hitting a record button or play or jump to points. Internal meters are fine for level setting and although I haven't played with the onboard DSP effe3ct I am told they are really good. In the hands of someone competent this thing could sing dance and probably cook you dinner...modesty prevents me speculating what else you could do with it.

In summary if you think you will ever become a Steinberg/Cubase boy I can only believe future software/hardware integration will become even more awesome.

Just my 2 pffenigs

Stueym

[Adam!]

I'm in the same position as Sober: I have stretched my audigy, with its piddly little 1/8th inch ins and outs, as far as it will go. I have less money to spend than Sobes (400 CDN), but in two weeks that will change. Looking.

[jack]

The M-Box with pro tools LE is crap, and it has to be so.
Lets face it what make ProTools so damn good is all the DSP stuff and hardware that comes with it. And the LE version obviously has none of this.
Also although protools is great for handling audio it isnt that great at MIDI.
I would suggest taking a Pro route and going with a real Pro toolsset up not the toy M-box LE one(if you have many thousands of dollars that is)

and do you know this from direct experience or are you just talking out the side of your ass once again?

i've been been using an mBox since i got here and i love it. no issues with it (it used to have a lack of VST support but the new version does). there are many fine artists from songfight, c hack and dylan nau to name a couple offhand, that use the mBox. go listen to some of their songs and tell me this thing sounds like ass.

[Mostess]

We use an M-Box with Adobe Audition 1.0. I can't compare it to anything else since my only other digital recording experiences are direct-to-soundblaster recordings using an old demo of CakeWalk. So if crap can be flexible, sound nice, be very lightweight, have no discernable latency (I used to study time perception, so if I can't hear it only a really good drummer can), be dependable, reasonably-priced and easy to use, then I suppose the M-Box could be crap. But that seems silly to say.

I'm sure there's much better, but I'm a hobbyist. I feel I have more flexibility than I need. I never, ever have used the effects busses, I only rarely use both input channels, and I don't own a MIDI instrument (yet!). So there's plenty of room for me to grow into it.

The USB connection is a great idea. 1) it allows me to get farther away from the recording machine (that and a cordless mouse!). 2) I can put it away when I'm not using it; it fits in a very small drawer.

It came with a bunch of software which I don't use. Live Delta (some very early version), some very odd "visual DJ" software, some virtual instrument player (VST? MIDI-driven, I think), something else I haven't even bothered to tinker with. I don't really care. Audition is everything I need (Direct-X only, but I'm not an effects hound).

So, for what it's worth, I wouldn't dismiss the M-Box out of hand. It does look a little like a toy (it kind of is one for me), and I've handled it very gingerly even though it would be perfect for a portable-studio-in-a-knapsack. So I don't know how much banging around it can tolerate.

It converts amplifies analog signals, does a little preprocessing (padding, mixing, effects busses) converts the signal to digital for the computer, takes the computer signal back and converts it to analog for the monitor jacks. Everything else is gravy.

[Sober]

I think I'll probably go with the Firepod. It's just too badass.

As for software, I'm kind of glad it isn't bundled with anything. I do have to keep in mind that Yamaha is in bed with Cubase. The Motief ES7 I'm getting can be controlled directly by Cubase, which gives me a pretty hefty boner.

I guess that means I'll actually have to pay for a copy of cubase, because my less-than-legal version doesn't cut it.

EDIT: further, I just found out that Brook Mays is a dealer for Presonus, which means I get it cheaper than youuuuuuuuu.

[Dan-O from Five-O]

I'm certainly no expert on the subject but thisthing (although much pricier than what you're talking about) could be an interesting alternative. You're talking about forming a band soon which I assume you would want to play out live, and this mixer looks as though it could handle the double duty and provide a nice interface for live recorings. It's a hybrid of course and I know there will be purists who will argue that you're sacrificing some sound quality on the analog portion. Also, it isn't bundled with any software so there's more money you're looking at spending.

[stueym]

I think I'll probably go with the Firepod. It's just too badass.

As for software, I'm kind of glad it isn't bundled with anything. I do have to keep in mind that Yamaha is in bed with Cubase. The Motief ES7 I'm getting can be controlled directly by Cubase, which gives me a pretty hefty boner.

I guess that means I'll actually have to pay for a copy of cubase, because my less-than-legal version doesn't cut it.

Sober remember my quote about SX3. I upgraded to SL3 thinking it was all I needed to drive the Yamaha gear using Studio Connections only to be bitterly disappointed when after three days trying to get the 01X to work with Cubase found that I couldn't.

In the end I found a competitive upgrade deal for SX3 for $199 (should have been $399 and that same dealer still does it for $299) so I bought a copy of protools 6.7LE (in the upgrade list) for $59 on Ebay and did the deal. Ended up cheaper than upgrading the copy of SL3 and I still have that licence and dongle to use on a second computer (my laptop for example).

[ken]

Hey All,

I've had a couple of different systems at this point.

My current set up is nice: MOTU 828 Mk2. It has 8 ins and outs with two built in preamps. It's a firewire device which I run into a firewire PCI card as my mobo doesn't have any firewire ports. I like this unit very much and use it with my laptop as well. I've got a number of external preamps that I use to get more channels. I bought it for about $600 used. Totally worth it.

I sold my old set up for $250. It was a MOTU 2408 Mk2. It had 8ins and outs, connected to the computer by it's own PCI card, and had no built in preamps. This with a Mackie 1402 was my set up for years. It was rock solid.

If you've got the Mackie already, consider the M-Audio Quattro. It's a 4 in/4 out USB device that we used for a lot of Loyalty Day stuff and Glenn Case now uses one as well. You can get them for around $100 used, so if you have a good mixer and don't record more than 4 tracks as once, this is an excellent choice.

Presonus stuff is nice too.

Ken

[Sober]

Ok, I found that I can get the Firepod for just under $500, which makes it kind of a no-brainer. That'll leave just enough money from one paycheck to get a rack in which to mount it.

Some nice monitors are coming soon, too. Not to mention the Motif.

So one might expect the quality of TSI submissions to go up in the near future. Maybe.

[Me$$iah]

and do you know this from direct experience or are you just talking out the side of your ass once again .

Yeh yeh I re-read wat I said and yes alright I did come off abit too negative, that actually wasnt my intention. What I was trying to say was that even tho the mBox says ProTools on it, then dont expect it to be like a 'real' ProTools system....I have used both the mBox and a huge proffesional ProTools setup, and honestly there is no comparisson between them. Its all about the hardware there....
Mind compared to like an Audigy card or somthing the mBox is obviously gonna piss all over it. Again there is no comparison there neither, an Audigy say is a general comp card for games mostly, whilst an mBox or delta1010 say is a sound card for music production--apples n oranges
same with the ProTools mBox and a big rig--apples n oranges

I hope Im clearer in this post than last time,
so to summarise:-
mBox is a great music production interface, however lacks the hardware DSP stuff that a pro rig uses, and thus is not comparable to one. CW offer a DSP based system (simlar in many ways to ProTools, also different in many)for a fraction of the price of the 'bigboy'ProTools

didnt mean to upset anyone, watch all the Audigy users jump all over me now

hehe

tho it aint the sound device that matters,
Its talent, skill and good songwriting, I mean listen to the Beatles (a bloody 4-track)

cheers
Messiah

[Southwest_Statistic]

Go Motu. End of story. http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/896/body.html/en

[jack]

Guitar Center has a pretty good deal on the mBox right now. $350, which is cheaper than musiciansfriend.com

pretty good price for a well made pre amp A/D converter, with ProTools. Audition alone costs about $300. Logic even more.

[Sober]

Just checked my online bank statement, and Presonus has charged my card. The firepod should be here in a couple days.

Yesssss.

[Adam!]

I've finally done it. After 2 years I've retired my SoundBlaster. The reason wasn't even sound-quality: I just had too many cables behind my computer. I was plugging my mic into a Behringer mixer (which I used as a preamp), then adapted that down from 1/4" mono to 1/8" stereo and into my SoundBlaster. I had to use a thick mass of cables and adapters to go from the soundcard to my monitors. And I also used a MIDI sport for my keyboard. Ugh.

Now I've replaced all that with an Edirol UA-25, and so far I like it. Nearly cable-free, 24-bit depth, a built in limiter to prevent clipping, and much lower latency. Sweet.

[Dan-O from Five-O]

I've finally done it. After 2 years I've retired my SoundBlaster. Now I've replaced all that with an Edirol UA-25, and so far I like it. Nearly cable-free, 24-bit depth, a built in limiter to prevent clipping, and much lower latency. Sweet.

You have got to be kidding me. You've upgraded since you recorded Bioluminescence? Man that song rocked. I can't wait to see what you do next with the new stuff. Rock on young man, and congratulations on the new purchase.

[boltoph]

I've come here with a cry for help. A friend of mine has been trying to install:

an Echo Audio Layla card

on a Windows XP system

Using Cubase (v. 3)

Even after trying a multitude of adjustments, including locking Layla's freq rate at 44.1khz, the damn thing still plays back regular MP3's REAL slow and pitch shifted down...

We are able to record audio with it, and it's weird, when we record some bass and snare drum hits, and play them back, they are fine...but when we add in an audio file at the exact same freq rate / bit rate, to play along with, the audio file plays slow and pitch shifted down, while the samples we just recorded are fine.

All of this, and the frequency rate is locked at 44.1, and the project is a 44.1 project, and the file we dumped into the session was a 44.1 khz file. All 16-bit. argh...it just doesn't make sense. Any help would be wonderful...we've tried switching the PCI slot that the card is in, we've tried reinstalling the drivers from both the Echo web site and the disc that came with the soundcard.

I'm a mac user and never experienced anything like this, nor am I familiar with how things work on a PC for audio recording...

[blue]

sounds like the card is ignoring the driver telling it to lock at 44.1. dunno why or what to do to fix it, other than google google google.

http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=11774

if you:

reboot
open the layla driver and set it to 44.1
load winamp
play mp3

does it work @ correct pitch?

shit like this is why i got rid of my m-audio 410.