Monitor Debacle

jeffgowins3 · Post by **jeffgowins3** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:51 pm

Can anyone suggest a good set of monitors that runs under $200 a pair? I don't need anything big or driving, just something with flat response and tuned cabinets.

I've found these thus far...

Behringer Truth B2031P:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=600604

Fostex PM04:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=600682

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:55 pm

I'm in the same boat, so I'll just keep checking back. So far, Guitar center has a pair for around 300 bux that are supposed to be great, but I can't remember the brand.

bz£ · Post by **bz£** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:07 pm

There is a huge difference between those two!

The Behringers are passive and you will need an amplifier to make them work. The Fostex are powered and have the amps built in to drive them.

I assume you want some kind of powered monitors as a decent amp will price you over your budget before you buy any monitors at all. Actually, $200 a pair is pretty restrictive anyway. Not to be discouraging, or snobby, but you won't get much if you're buying new. It's like asking for an electric guitar under a hundred bucks... you can have a Squier or you can save your money for a real guitar.

There have been a few threads in the past; most seem to turn into a "this is what I have" list. (I have a pair of Event TR5s and they seem good!)

Also, be careful as monitors are often sold individually, even if it looks like you're buying a pair. Makes prices harder to compare.

Billy's Little Trip · Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:54 pm

monitors are often sold individually

True, both of those links say "quanity 1", so they are 300 bux a pair
edit: I guess that could mean "1 pair" tricky sumz'nuh bishes.

Reist · Post by **Reist** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:38 pm

Is it possible to just use speakers from a stereo as monitors, or is that just a bad idea?

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:52 pm

Go to guitar center and get a cheapass pair of b5's. They practically give those away, and we still use a pair of those to reference (we have two other sets to do most of the work, but they're still handy). They're the ones with the yellow cone.

Post by jb » Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:04 pm

jolly roger wrote:Is it possible to just use speakers from a stereo as monitors, or is that just a bad idea?

it's a bad idea, because speakers from a stereo are usually modified to emphasize the highs and lows of a recording-- not what you want from monitors. Monitors are designed to be as close to a "neutral" response for all frequencies as is possible to get. The better the monitor, the flatter the response. Never gets completely flat, and that's where the nuance of different brands of monitor come in.

You want a flat response in order to get the same sound on every system your recording might be played on. The goal is to have your song sound good on a home stereo, in headphones, and on an iBook. Monitors help you achieve a mix that "translates" well to various systems.

And also, proper placement of your monitors makes more of a difference than I would have thought. Now that I have a good equilateral triangle between my monitors and my ears, my mixes are a lot better IMO. Not great, but better than a year ago.

Calfborg · Post by **Calfborg** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:36 pm

Isn't there a point when hi-fi speakers eventually become the equivalent of studio monitors, such as the higher end of B&W's line? I know that their 800 series are used in Abbey Road. I don't really know my Martin Logans from my Sonus Fabers, but it seems that those brands typically aim for a sound that is free from coloration. Since most of those speakers aren't powered, the amplifier used is important too, so I suppose brands like Krell or Bryston have the same goal. A discrepancy could be made that they aim for simply a good sound in addition to revealing detail, so I guess that's not necessarily the same as a flat response. I'm not sure what my point is.

Post by jb » Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:58 pm

The thing is that monitors aren't necessarily supposed to sound *good*, they're supposed to sound *flat.* You don't necessarily want to play your party mix through your nearfields, 'cause it ain't gonna make anybody's booty shake with bass rumble.

There are some monitors that kind of sound like CRAP, but the mixes on them turn out really well. I can't remember the model, but I think there's a Yamaha nearfield monitor where that's the case. People hate them, but if you mix on them your track translates well.

Also, you can get monitors with a pretty nice flat response for fairly cheap. To get stereo speakers with a flat response, you've got to go into the audiophile range by which point you're spending more than you'd have to in order to get half-decent nearfield monitors.

I bought my Tannoy PBM 6.5 II (unpowered) pair for $200 on ebay, and have them powered by a $100 Samson 85 watt studio amplifier. Before this pair I had their predecessor (sans "II") which I got for the same price on eBay. All my mixes are done on them and a set of $100 Sony headphones.

They could be better, but so could my room, so could my instruments, etc. I'd love to have the $1600 Mackies, but I'm not prepared to spend that much at this point.

<a href="http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dl ... ry0=">eBay search for "Tannoy PBM"</a>

<a href="http://www.sweetwater.com/c408--Monitor ... Sweetwater page full of monitor amps</a> - the best one for us little guys is the Alesis RA150, at $200. In an apartment or dorm room, it will be PLENTY loud for mixing purposes, even if you like to turn it up like I do. I like having this power amp because i can abuse my monitors and just go get another pair on eBay when I blow a speaker or drop one or accidentally poke a mic stand through the cone, etc.

JB

bz£ · Post by **bz£** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:31 pm

jb wrote:There are some monitors that kind of sound like CRAP, but the mixes on them turn out really well. I can't remember the model, but I think there's a Yamaha nearfield monitor where that's the case. People hate them, but if you mix on them your track translates well.

NS10?

Post by jb » Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:37 pm

yeah that's the one:

http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/ns10 ... nitors.htm

obscurity · Post by **obscurity** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:54 pm

FWIW, I used to use Yamaha NS10Ms, before I migrated to headphones. I found the 'phones gave me better results (other people's mileage varies).

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:40 pm

I've been mixing on my Sony MDR-7506 Professional headphones for several months now. The only problem I have, besides going def of course, is getting the low tones right. But after doing several mixes and listening to them side by side in the car, home system etc, I know where the bass needs to be on the phones to be right in the final mix. But I still don't believe they are a replacement for studio monitors.

edit: Two days later. Ha, I just blew out my left side of my nifty headphone while recording the bass on Ten Lies. 8)

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:38 pm

A little off topic from the monitors, but I didn't want to start a thread for something that probably has a simple answer.
I've been meaning to ask. Is there a set of headphones (since I need a new pair for my studio now) that are designed for mixing? Or some kind of simulator I can run them through? I googled it, but I'm not seeing anything that is specifically designed for mixing.

blue · Post by **blue** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:57 pm

i use NS10s.

obscurity · Post by **obscurity** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:34 pm

Billy's Little Trip wrote:A little off topic from the monitors, but I didn't want to start a thread for something that probably has a simple answer.
I've been meaning to ask. Is there a set of headphones (since I need a new pair for my studio now) that are designed for mixing?

I don't know - when I bought mine I didn't buy them with mixing in mind - but I can wholeheartedly recommend Beyer DT100 Pro headphones like these (that's where I bought mine from).

stateshirt · Post by **stateshirt** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:25 pm

before i got my dynaudios, i had a set of alesis monitor one mk 2's, they were really decent for the price range. They run $199/pair. (note they are not powered).

I thought the mixes translated pretty well to other systems, with the exeption of the bass-- they always made me mix too bass-heavy. But that also could have been my lack of knowledge of proper speaker placement... and room treatments... and all of that crap that would probably help me.

PS please for your own good don't buy the behringers.

Billy's Little Trip · Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:14 pm

obscurity wrote:
Billy's Little Trip wrote:A little off topic from the monitors, but I didn't want to start a thread for something that probably has a simple answer.
I've been meaning to ask. Is there a set of headphones (since I need a new pair for my studio now) that are designed for mixing?
I don't know - when I bought mine I didn't buy them with mixing in mind - but I can wholeheartedly recommend Beyer DT100 Pro headphones like these (that's where I bought mine from).

I just noticed that my Sony MDR-7506 headphones , that I just blew, actually say "studio monitors" on the top band. I've actually made some pretty good mixes just using them. But those DT100's look pretty good. But my Sony's go down to 10hz, which I know is to low to hear, but it does give a good idea of where the bass is when mixing.

king_arthur · Post by **king_arthur** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:31 am

I also mix on MDR 7506 headphones (though my "Ten Lies" song was mixed by a friend who uses something else). While 7506's aren't the greatest headphones around, they're sort of a "standard," so one of the advantages is that just about any decent studio is going to have them, and if you're used to what things should sound like on 7506s, you have a certain amount of portability. They are also, as headphones go, relatively indestructable, in terms of leaving them on the floor or in the trunk or whatever. I betcha BLT's problem really is a blown speaker, not a headphone cable problem

They're also available everywhere, so if you need a new pair on short notice, you shouldn't have any problem finding them.

Charles

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:07 am

I like that advice Charles. I do actually like the MDR's and have been somewhat happy with them. I think I'll run down to Guitar Center today and pick up another pair. I'm sure I blew the left side speaker because I was recording my bass with the mic 45V boost activated on my Pre Sonus Fire Box. If I blew a speaker, just think about what I'm doing to my ear drums. I really need to start recording and mixing at low levels.

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:07 pm

By the way, just to follow up on my new headphones that I bought. As I said in my previous post, I was going to GC to get another pair of Sony MDR-7506's. As usual, the GC guy started trying to up sell me to something else, as they so often do. He starts telling me how he only mixes music with beyerdynamic DT 770 because they are great studio phones, bla bla bla. But they are very flat phones and will give me a more raw sound to work with. He went on by saying the Sony's are great for listening to music, but the DT-770's are great for mixing AND they won't blow out when recording bass. BAM, that sold me right there. I never told him my Sony's blew out while recording bass. So I say, well, I was only planning on paying around 150 bux, so I'll stick with the Sony's (to see if he'll work on the $249.00 price tag on the DT-770's). Not only did he come down, he matched the price of the Sony's to prove to me, I'll get better mixes, bla bla bla.

So far, I can say they are comfy, and sound very flat, just like he said. I can already tell they will feel better on long recording and mixing sessions.
I was listening to some music in my truck today that I mixed yesterday with the DT-770's, and I was surprised that the bass was perfect right out of the gate. The highs could have come up some, but I tend to like bright music. I was surprised how well I got the tones on a first mix. So yeah, I think I like these cans.
I'll let you guys know when I blow them.

Märk · Post by **Märk** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:46 pm

Need some audiogeek advice... I'm in the market for some reference monitors, and so far have found these:

M-Audio Studiophile AV 20
M-Audio StudioPro 3
EDIROL ROLAND MA-15D
Edirol MA-15DBK
Alesis M1

That's just a quick ebay trawl, and the Alesis set is about the upper range of what I can spend. Which of these would you recommend?

Monitor Debacle

Monitor Debacle

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