Bass amps?

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Sat May 19, 2007 2:54 pm

I've started rehearsing with some blokes to start a middle-aged punk rock band - playing Clash covers, some Caravan Ray songs and other various left-wing political rants set to loud, fast music.

I'm playing bass - but I don't have a bass amp. We currently practice through headphones.

It has been 20 years since I've bought stuff to use on stage. What do I need nowdays. I see 100w bass combos for around $AUD$500 (~USD$300-400).

say - like this: http://www.venuemusic.com.au/Products.asp?ProdID=9685

will that do the job on a stage in a small pub room? The dude I am playing with is looking at lining up shows at these multi band nights at a pub in Brisbane. Ideally there will be PA etc all set up. I'm thingking a cheapo combo mic'ed up through the PA would work?

I see rigs for $'000s - but don't want to spend that much at this stage (or own/have to lug something that heavy)

Maybe I should just get a little practice amp to use at home - and just hire a big-arsed rig when we do shows? Any thoughts?

...oh...and I also need band name suggestions. Given that we are doing a lot of Clash songs - I'm keen on "The Guns of Brisbane", but maybe not...

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Sat May 19, 2007 4:49 pm

This would be way way way way way way better. Best sounding cheapass bass amp I've ever heard. It's manageable enough to not kill yourself taking it to gigs, and it's got an xlr out for easy PA hookup. And it's got the nifty red light in the bottom that lights up as you play louder. I've seen these down below $250 US.

Also, stay away from the SWR working man's series. Terrible stuff.

obscurity · Post by **obscurity** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:24 pm

If you're gonna hook it up to the PA anyway, have you considered just going with something like the BodXT Live? Seems to me it'd be both more flexible and more luggable.

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:30 pm

I'll be you're biggest fan John. I love middle aged punk.

I'd get the Fender that Irishman linked just because of that red light at the bottom.

Personally, I like a bass cab with a tweeter. Carvin equipment is the best way to get high end equipment for a much lower price. Edgar's little combo is a Carvin PB100 Pro. It's the most powerful 100 watt Bass amp I have ever heard and it has a 15" speaker. I think he paid around $600 though, but I'm sure they have less expensive combos.

By the way, I think you should call yourselves "The Bloody Pukes" *spoken with an Aussie accent*

bz£ · Post by **bz£** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:36 pm

My initial reaction is that one hundred watts would probably not be loud enough to keep up with a band playing Clash covers. And the Fender is four ohms so you can't really add an extension cabinet to it. It's not so much an issue with the size of the room or anything-- it'll be the guitars and drums you have to worry about.

That all don't mean it wouldn't work perfectly. Give it a tryout if you can.

The multi-thousand-dollar rigs are way more than you need or want. Those start (like any fine blind date) with a huge rack and you have no need for most of the typical outboard gear.

Having gotten that awful pun out of the way, the pubs you want to play at may have a house bass amp that you can just show up and use. You might also be able to befriend one of the bands you're playing with and share their gear. (I've done this with drums before, too. Drums are a huge pain in the ass.) Practice through your vocal PA, and spend the money you saved on beer and prostitution. At worst you could buy a $20 DI box but any decent club should have a few lying about.

I wouldn't recommend that but it's probably not impossible.

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:56 pm

Well the ideal setup, however loud you may be, would be using the amp more as a monitor and run it through the PA. This keeps overall stage volume lower, and makes a good house mix much more manageable.

Our bassist usually doesn't even use an amp, he just plugs into the PA. We're really good about keeping stage volume low, and I guess he also doesn't want to lug his enormous Ampeg cab around. For the bigger stage shows, though, he'll bring the amp and run the amp's output into the PA.

Basically, relying on huge bass amps is as unnecessary as having a full stack guitar rig. Sure, it looks cool, but unless you're playing stadiums it's more detrimental to the mix than anything else.

melvin · Post by **melvin** » Sat May 19, 2007 8:47 pm

I bought this Ampeg a few months ago:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--AMPBA115

Like Sober says, it's best to use it as a monitor and put your bass through a PA if you're playing a gig, but it's plenty loud enough for a jam space and the tone, in my opinion, is way better than the equivalent Fender product.

Post by **Spud** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:43 pm

The Sober Irishman wrote:This would be way way way way way way better. Best sounding cheapass bass amp I've ever heard. It's manageable enough to not kill yourself taking it to gigs, and it's got an xlr out for easy PA hookup. And it's got the nifty red light in the bottom that lights up as you play louder. I've seen these down below $250 US.

Also, stay away from the SWR working man's series. Terrible stuff.

whee! I have that! I really do! maybe sober will take me seriously now! hrmmnhdhmhn. I doubt it.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Sun May 20, 2007 12:09 am

The Sober Irishman wrote:
Basically, relying on huge bass amps is as unnecessary as having a full stack guitar rig. Sure, it looks cool, but unless you're playing stadiums it's more detrimental to the mix than anything else.

That is exactly what I wanted to hear really. The Fender you suggest looks like just the ticket (and I have been very, very glad I took your advice and got the Yamaha bass earlier his year - it is a beauty). I just may need some luck convincing my wife I "need" a toy with a AUD$600 price tag.

On that thought, should economy come into play - is 100W even necessary? If I am using the amp only for practice and as stage monitor - going out through the PA - would a 60W suffice? Or would that just be pissing about for the sake of a $100 or so dollars?

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Sun May 20, 2007 3:14 am

Wattage is a sales pitch. There are 5 watt amps out there that blow some 50 watt amps away. So many things come into play - what kind of load the chassis is handling, tubes vs solid state, what kind of tubes, speaker configuration/construction (a 15" with a tiny magnet will be flaccid, while a celestion with giant AlNiCo mags will destroy your house), cabinet construction, etc.

Whatever, I'm spewing unnecessary shit. Basically, you should try your best to try some of these amps out side by side. Your music shop should definitely have the Fender in stock (they make a shitload of money). Try it out, as loud as it goes. Compare it to similar priced amps.

Honestly, that amp doesn't get quite as loud as some others do, but it sounds better than anything else in the price range. When I worked at the shop, I had potential bass buyers test their bass of choice through that amp.

With a little looking, you may be able to find it even cheaper:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=Rumble100

I saw one on ebay for $250 as well. What's the AU-US conversion? Surely it's not 2:1.

Glad you like the Yamaha.

And Spud, I take you very seriously. But do you really want that?

Post by **Lunkhead** » Sun May 20, 2007 11:03 am

I played through Spud's amp, and I like it, and if I decided to play bass in a band would consider getting it.

Sober, any thoughts on the Line 6 Low Down amps? I tried one of those that a friend had, too, and I liked the sound and also thought the synth bass effect feature was pretty cool. It's a little more expensive than the Fender, though.

ken · Post by **ken** » Mon May 21, 2007 9:18 am

It's probably late to get in on this thread, but I suggest the Ashdown bass amps. They are cheap and sound really good. Personally, I had an SWR Workingman's 12 when I played bass in a band. I thought it sounded great and worked really well for practice and shows. If you want big and nice, get the Eden Traveller head and a 4x10 cabinet. The Eden head is small and sounds great.

Ken

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:20 pm

ken wrote:It's probably late to get in on this thread, but I suggest the Ashdown bass amps. They are cheap and sound really good.

No - not too late - I will be procrastinating about this for weeks. I'm glad you mentioned the Ashdown stuff - it seems to be a fair bit cheaper than the Fenders. I need to find some time now and get out and try some of these

TSI wrote: I saw one on ebay for $250 as well. What's the AU-US conversion? Surely it's not 2:1.

No - it is about $AUD1= $USD0.80 - but these things are just more expensive here. The Fender 100W I've seen so far are all about $650 -$700.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:47 pm

I cant' stand 15 inch speakers for bass rigs. Too much mid, not enough definition, not enough bottom.

That fender amp? sorry, it sucks. WE used THAT amp twice and it didn't compare to our bassist's previous amp for tone and power. Unforutnatly, I can't recall what he was using previously.

I've played through or jammed with people who use SWR, Eden, Fender, berringer, ampeg, hartke, and ..damn. some other "high end" amp. I have a carvin head I got off ebay for $450 with 300 w per side, built in compressor, two different eq's... the red eye amp? Can't remember. I use it with two eden 2-10 cabs I got off ebay. Sometimes I run it with 1 cabinet, sometimes both, bi-amped.

Point is... I would worry more about the size of your speakers and tone than wattage or brand. 10 inch speakers will form their wave in a shorter distance than a 15 or 18... at least that's what I believe... it seems to be with 10 inch speakers, like a 2-10 cab, you can get a very solid tone that doesn't soak up all the room on stage yet provides the warmth that makes playing bass fun while providing definition in your tone so everyone knows what you are doing.

15 inch speakers, EVERY SINGLE ONE, whether it's a single speaker cab with a tweeter like that fender, or a 4-15 cab like my buddy Cal used to use or any other combination always sucked for good stage tone. You'd be better off going direct through a monitor system. They don't' got the tone, guts or ability to have any useful stage value.

FER SURE.

well.. ok, if you bi amp and use a 15 for your sub, that's a bit different. I'm talking for full range use.

Get a 2-10 combo amp man. It's versatile, it's light, its' not too expensive, and most are set up to be expandable when required... you don't need a 4-10. But 15's? SUCK.

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:25 pm

I love you and usually respect your input Leaf, but you are categorically wrong. Larger speakers are by definition going to give you more low end, full range or not.

From wiki:

The requirement to reproduce low frequencies at high sound pressure levels means that most loudspeakers used for bass guitar amplification are designed around large diameter, heavy-duty drivers, with 10", 12" and 15" being most common. As a rule of thumb, performers desiring a deeper bass tone (e.g., punk, metal, or hard rock bassists) prefer the larger speakers, while performers wanting a more articulate tone (e.g. jazz or fusion bassists) tend to prefer the smaller speakers with better extended mid-range response.

I agree that the Fender Rumble 100 isn't the best amp on the planet. But it fits the bill for what Caravan Ray was looking for, and I stand by my suggestion. Personal preference is king I know, and as a drummer I'm sure you are able to hear 2x10's much more clearly, but that doesn't mean 10's are better than 15's or vice versa.

Ray is also looking for a combo, not a half-stack. At this price range there are very few combo 2x10's to even consider.

And you had better watch what you say about 15's for stage tone, or the ghost of Jimmy Smith will sodomize you:

Bottom line:

1. Personal preference will always trump any amount of information or persuasion (which is fine)
2. Speaking in absolutes is always bad (absolutely)

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:46 pm

I do like the sound of 10's for bass, but only if they are being used with a 15" and a tweeter. It gives deep bass, mid bass and those wonderful highs to give presence of the strings, etc.
But if you want a light small combo, I don't like 2x10's by themselves. I've heard numerous small bass combos, and the single 15" offers what you should get out of a bass.
As I said, my bass player has a huge Carvin rig consisting of a ported 15" cab, and two 4x10 cabs with tweeters . But his little combo is a 100wat Carvin with a 15" cone. That little thing kicks ASS! Plus it has all of the outs and pre ins for every situation.
Personally, I love the sound of his combo plugged into our PA. The 15 can be felt and the PA lets it be heard.

Bottom line, everyone has a preference and John just needs to play on a few to see what he likes.

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:51 pm

Another cheap-but-decent brand worth checking out is Gallien-Krueger. I believe their entry-level models are the Backline series, and they sound alright.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Mon May 21, 2007 3:14 pm

2-10's rule absolutely.

Um... I hate 15's?

You are correct about absolutes... I was however, speaking from my opinion place, and that's how I hear it. I don't like what I hear from a 15... I like to hear definition in a bass, not some low-mid presence. I want to interact with that bass!!

Plus, I still feel, regardless or wikipoopie, that 10 inch speakers are superior for this purpose, lighter, more verstalie. There ARE combos out there that do this, they cost about the same as that fender rumble thing. They are smaller too. I know, I've seen lots of em, and heard em.

WHAT A FUCKING MINUTE!!! Didn't you just say dont' speak in absolutes after saying I was categorically wrong??

You sir, are an optimist.

Umm. don't listen to guitar players about bass amps. They think the bass is there to support their melodies. We all know the guitar is there to outline the chord the bassist has defined with their well placed, well meaning root notes. sheesh.

See, I have noticed that guitarists (and only guitarists) will criticize the 10 inch speaker sound specifically because the definition of the note holds them more accountable to the root structure of the phrase and implied chord. The can't hide behind the muddiness that a 15 speaker provides.

This is almost as much fun as a Rone Rivendale thread.

But less self serving. ZING!

*it is all opinion, these are mine.

blue · Post by **blue** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:42 pm

booty chesterfield endorse the ampeg bass rocket + a decent DI box so the soundman can plug you into the PA.

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Mon May 21, 2007 6:38 pm

I am not a guitar player, I am a keyboard player.

The bassist in my cover band rotates between a 4x10 and a 1x15. Granted, they're both really high-end rigs, but he gets a good sound out of both of them. From where I am on stage in relationship to him, I can't really tell the difference. It's easier for me to guess what bass he's using than what cab.

Anyone can get a shit tone out of any amp. If you are not eq'ing your signal right, it'll suck.

When I said you were categorically wrong, I was referring to your opening statement about 15's having too much mid and not enough bottom in relation to 10's, which is, according to frequency response charts and general acoustic principals, wrong. You did seem to stray from that point later on, so pardon my nitpicking.

Heh, there's also a Fender Rumble 100 2x10. You should try them out side-by-side.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Mon May 21, 2007 6:46 pm

It's ok man... I was joking around. I agree about the absolutes, and didn't realize in my ramble-thought that I did that.

That being said, I AM so totally prejudiced against 15 inch speakers it's not funny. I hate them all. that's my deal.

I love 10's, 12's, and 18's though. This may seem totally retarded, but I HAVE used a lot of them, and I dont' like 'em. I don't like 15 inch toms for that matter either, and 15 kinda sucked in high school...so maybe it's some kinda theme.

Thank god my shlong is only 14 inches. Imagine the irony...

Dan-O from Five-O · Post by **Dan-O from Five-O** » Tue May 22, 2007 10:58 pm

The Sober Irishman wrote:Heh, there's also a Fender Rumble 100 2x10. You should try them out side-by-side.

Yeah and it has removable casters as well for the old man. At his advanced age and deteriorating physical shape, wheels would be a really good idea.

I think Leaf's general perception from behind the kit, and the bass amp, might have a little bit to do with his dislike of 15's. It probably is easier from his vantage point to to make out what the bass player is doing rather than having the backside of a 15" or 18" cabinet blowing undistinguishable notes back at him. I will say that I'm playing with a guy (in a band perverts) right now that has a 4X10" cabinet (Gallien Kreuger) setup that never ceases to amaze me how much low end it produces. It certainly has more defintion, but I don't know about "hiding" behind the low end like Leaf said.

Maybe he's played with some weak guitar players.

EDIT: As far as names go how about Geriatric Punk?