August 27, 2007

Niveous · Post by **Niveous** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:57 am

Konichiwa Songfighters,

How is everyone doing today? I'm having a surprisingly good day for a Monday. I woke up with my usual hate for the world but it ebbed away after a really cool moment I had when writing my novel. I found myself at a point in my novel where I saw a lot of myself in my main character. It's a hard moment to explain. But it was good nonetheless.

QotD:
Do you think boycotts ever really work?

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:10 am

Geoff Boycott scored 8,114 runs in 108 test matches for England. He seemed to work.

Niveous · Post by **Niveous** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:53 am

Maybe I should say where my question came from.

I had a conversation with my wife over one of her friends. The friend had gone to a state fair and found the animals there weren't well taken care of. My wife (and moreso my wife's other friends) suggested that she no longer go to the fair. Me, being devil's advocate, said that boycotting wouldn't help because 1) the fair doesn't get an idea of why you're boycotting unless its accompanied by some sort of protest and 2) the fair loses revenue and that means even less money to put towards the animals. So if the friend boycotts the fair, who is she hurting more- herself, the fair owners or the animals? Or does it all become a case of principles?

fodroy · Post by **fodroy** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:11 am

I think it'd be way too hard to get enough people involved in a boycott for it to be successful. Most people, I think, already have the attitude that boycotts are pointless and won't join in. There are too many people who enjoy the fair who also happen to not care how the animals are treated.

And wouldn't treatment of animals at a fair have more to do with the owners of the animals? At every fair I've seen the owners are pretty much set up with their animals.

erik · Post by **erik** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:25 am

As long as one plays Devil's advocate, the question becomes this: Is it reasonable to believe that if a state fair did really, really well that they would spend the extra profits on the animals? Or will the animals be treated the same regardless of how much money comes in?

Also, is there some basic level of animal care below which people would be too disgusted to go to the fair? If the fair did really, really bad would they showcase animals that were diseased and sickly?

I suspect that animals at a fair are going to be treated the same no matter what: in a matter that would be acceptable to most people, but not really all that great. Refusing to give money to the fair won't make their situation any worse/better.

Niveous · Post by **Niveous** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:15 am

erik wrote:Refusing to give money to the fair won't make their situation any worse/better.

That's kind of my feeling. We also had a similar conversation regarding the WWE. The wrestlers there have no health insurance, no unions, work 250+ days a year with massive amounts of travel and have a frighteningly high death rate. My wife wondered why I would still watch. Why wouldn't I boycott? I figured it will go on the same way regardless of whether I watch or not. If I put more revenue in, the wrestlers aren't going to miraclously get health benefits. If I take money out, they still won't get help.

So is there a time when boycotts really do work in this day and age?

mkilly · Post by **mkilly** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:34 pm

Yeah, boycott and refusing to shop at a place or whatever are pretty different things. Apartheid South Africa was boycotted, and pretty effectively. Sure they can still be effective, boycotts, but not shopping at Wal-Mart, or not eating meat, or ceasing to watch WWE--these are only worthwhile if you feel better about yourself, unless you're backing it up with some advocacy and demonstration and so forth. I mean, advertisers were withdrawing from Imus's show, and so forth, after the nappy headed hos thing. The efficacy of that demonstrations is its own issue, I suppose.

today I had an interview to become the Small Concerts Chair for ASUI. it went pretty well.

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:13 pm

Well, my first thought of response was to crack a joke about how boycotts don't really work well for adults, because their legs hang over the end when they're trying to sleep.
But being about animals, I will be serious and not crack that joke up yahhh ^^^.

OK, first off, comparing wrestlers that can make their own choices to animals that can not. Two different debates. Unless we are talking about children or mentally/physically handicapped people that DO need our help. Wrestlers, or any able bodied adult, then I don't care. Well, I don't care to a point.

Why in the world would someone boycott a fair for their "personal opinions" of animal care, when we have organizations that are professionals in these matters? Organizations can put WAY more heat on a business than a boycott that results in revenue losses that equate to a drop in the bucket.
Not only can they put the pressure on them, they can take the animals away to give them proper care, at the owners expense.
RSPCA - The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals
The Humane Society of the United States
PETA - People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals
These are just the national big wigs. There was a puppy mill that my wife and her group had shut down and there were 7 different animal rights organizations involved.
Fuck a boycott, if animals are being inhumanly treated, shut the mother fuckers down!

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:20 pm

I don't believe this is a fair QofD so I am boycotting this thread.

oops...

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:03 pm

yeah, look at Cuba... totally our boycott man.

end sarcasm

However, boycotting is akin to sanctions and it works on a large scale if done right.

Boycotting on a small scale is just laughable and can even work against your goal if other people decide to become more involved on the opposite side of your cause just out of spite.

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:17 pm

Hey Hoblit, did you get this call about Hulk Hogan's son crashing? I thought of you when I read it.

blue · Post by **blue** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:18 pm

mkilly wrote:The efficacy of that demonstrations is its own issue, I suppose.

five dollar words, nickel proofreading.

so we got a virus at work today, which led to the shutdown of a bunch of labs and control stations, one of which was apparently the control for the A/C. my office was 59 degrees when i came in and 62 when i gave up and left.

Ross · Post by **Ross** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:37 pm

first day back at school. Not really official, but I help with the freshmen orientation thing the next couple of days.

Watched Tennis - I like that.

Yes, I think sometimes boycotts work: dolphin safe tuna, where Wendy's buys their meat - two examples.

Niveous · Post by **Niveous** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:57 pm

Is it really nerdy that I was super happy to find out that I live a few blocks from where Roy Lichtenstein lived?

blue · Post by **blue** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:29 pm

Niveous wrote:Is it really nerdy that I was super happy to find out that I live a few blocks from where Roy Lichtenstein lived?

spud wouldn't think so.

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:42 pm

Yes Niv, yes you are. Here's your prize << cleeek

Kidding, never heard of him, but after looking at his style, pretty cool.

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:39 pm

First day on the new job went very well. After working at stupid dysfunctional companies so long it's so very amazing to work somewhere that actually treats employees with respect. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.

qotd: Boycotts work when the scale of the boycott is proportionate to the scale of the market. Religious folk in the Bible Belt threaten to boycott Wal-Mart all the damn time which is why Wal-Mart always caters to them so fiercely. A handful of bloggers threatening to "boycott" (meaning "not buying so much stuff from") Apple because the iPod doesn't have a user-replaceable battery is somewhat less effective.

And of course, a boycott is not the same thing as refusing to shop somewhere you wouldn't have shopped at to begin with. Wal-Mart doesn't care if I "boycott" them because I never shop there anyway. For a boycott to be effective, it has to be taken part in by people who otherwise would use it; basically, if the boycott doesn't inconvenience the protesters in some way, then it's not a worthwhile boycott.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:03 pm

Billy's Little Trip wrote:Hey Hoblit, did you get this call about Hulk Hogan's son crashing? I thought of you when I read it.

I was working at traffic.com yesterday but we didn't know it was Hulk Hogan's son that was involved in that crash until today. There were ejections and at least two Bayflite (helicopters) that flew in to move people to trauma centers. Down there in Clearwater. It was strange waking up to that news today after having dealt with that traffic information the day before. Especially because nothing ever happens on Sundays. (Unless you count the wee hours that are Saturday nights)

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:05 pm

Congrats on the new job Fluff. It's so nice to be happy at a job you like.

mkilly · Post by **mkilly** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:49 pm

Gee, and here I thought Gonzalez was going to be the only amazing political news today.

mkilly · Post by **mkilly** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:51 pm

blue wrote:
mkilly wrote:The efficacy of that demonstrations is its own issue, I suppose.
five dollar words, nickel proofreading.

so we got a virus at work today, which led to the shutdown of a bunch of labs and control stations, one of which was apparently the control for the A/C. my office was 59 degrees when i came in and 62 when i gave up and left.

you're such a horse's ass, you horse's ass. efficacy's pretty god-damn normal. at least i don't say irregardless.

blue · Post by **blue** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:53 pm

mkilly wrote:
blue wrote:
mkilly wrote:The efficacy of that demonstrations is its own issue, I suppose.
five dollar words, nickel proofreading.

so we got a virus at work today, which led to the shutdown of a bunch of labs and control stations, one of which was apparently the control for the A/C. my office was 59 degrees when i came in and 62 when i gave up and left.
you're such a horse's ass, you horse's ass. efficacy's pretty god-damn normal. at least i don't say irregardless.

take your burn and go sit in a corner, mister kellis.